My DVD player can't handle DTS ES for its life!

Discussion in 'Playback Devices' started by MuneebM, Mar 4, 2004.

  1. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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    I started a thread here about audio drop-outs I was getting. Anyways, if anybody followed that thread, then you know that I eventually ruled out everything but the DVD player, and determined that it was/is the culprit!

    The DVD player in question is a Toshiba SD-5700, rated 40% by Secrets but in my opinion has very good PQ. Its an old model, probably more than 5 years old, probably much before DTS ES and Dolby Digital EX started being included on DVDs. I get multiple audio drop-outs, mainly with the DTS ES track, with the following DVDs (often if I switch to the DD/DD-EX track the same audio drop-outs don't occur):
    - Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring Extended Edition (DTS ES)
    - Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers Extended Edition (DTS ES)
    - Blade 2 New Line Platinum Series (DTS ES)
    - Gladiator (DTS ES)

    I think my player just can't handle a clean transport of so much digital data that is required for a 48 kHz 768 kbps DTS ES audio track. I can replay the scenes that drop-out once and they'll drop-out every single time, so its an entirely reproduceable "bug". The exact same scenes play perfectly seamlessly in DTS ES on my XBox.

    Anybody else that owns this player or a similar Toshiba player encounter these issues (SD-4700, SD-4800, SD-3800, SD-3850, SD-4900, etc)? In fact, anybody encounter similar issues with any non-Toshiba DVD player? Can we start a list of known movies (please specify DD, DD EX, DTS, or DTS ES track) that cause these players to drop-out?
     
  2. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    If it's consistent with ES titles, then it will likely happen with all of them. There are still relatively few ES discs, and in nearly all cases, they seem to carry EX tracks as well, so your best bet until you upgrade will be the EX tracks.

    Here is a list of EX/ES:

    http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...threadid=19190

    I'm guessing you will have problems with most or all of the ES material. As I said before, looks like you need to start looking for a new player.
     
  3. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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    John, yes it seems it is definitely happening in at least one spot per DTS ES audio track I've tried. Although it is usually the case that a DVD that has DTS ES also has DD EX, there are some exceptions: Blade 2 New Line Platinum Series for example. Furthermore, I actually prefer the sound of DTS ES tracks on my AVR/speakers, because to my ears it sounds like they have more dynamic range than the DD EX tracks, especially noticeable on the LOTR Extended Editions.

    Well, the DVD player issue sucks, because my AVR handles DTS ES perfectly and it really sucks to have a bottleneck in the system when I've spent so much $$$ on a good receiver [​IMG]
     
  4. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    Blade 2 DOES have an EX track, but the ES track is better. Very active surrounds. I've had this one since the day it was released.
     
  5. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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    hmm, my (Canadian) copy of Blade 2 New Line Platinum Series definitely does not have an EX track. Are you certain? When I pop the DVD into my player, my AVR detects it as 5.1 Dolby Digital. Maybe its just missing the EX flag, but my Yamaha displays shows 5.1 discrete inputs on the front (vs 6.1 discrete inputs with the DTS ES track).

    I'll verify and confirm.
     
  6. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    I get EX listed in the sound options menu. Either you don't have it on the Canadian release, the DD track is EX and not flagged properly, or it is not EX. EX is 5.1 only, and is matrix, not discrete, so the receiver may not identify it as 6.1, even with EX processing forced.
     
  7. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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    Yes I know EX is matrix and not discrete, when I used the word "discrete" in my post I meant my Yamaha display shows the 5 little independent squares as well as the little LFE square, indicating a 5.1 mix. On the other hand, with the DTS ES track, it shows the 6 little independent squares as well as the little LFE square, indicating 6.1. Sorry for the confusion with my use of the word "discrete" instead of "independent".

    The Yamaha RX-V2400, when set to "STRAIGHT" mode also has the ability to display the specifics of the audio track and it displays: Dolby Digital, in: 3/2/LFE, fs: 48 kHz, rate: 448 kbps, flg: None. For DTS ES, it displays DTS, in: 3/2/LFE, fs: 48 kHz, rate: 768 kbps, flg: ES Matrix, flg: ES Discrete. I just checked with my copy of Blade 2.

    Its possible that the Canadian edition is not flagged correctly, this is also the case with my LOTR FOTR Extended Edition's DD EX track, my receiver detects it as plain ol' DD. But it seems the problem was corrected on LOTR TTT Extended Edition as it shows up as DD EX.
     
  8. David Judah

    David Judah Screenwriter

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    That's suprising since an ES track doesn't take up anymore space than a full bitrate DTS track. Have you tried any of those and had problems too?

    DJ
     
  9. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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    Good point DJ, the ES track only has the extra flag(s). I've tried other movies with plain DTS and haven't noticed similar problems, but I'll stay on the lookout.
     
  10. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    Not plain DTS 5.1, full bitrate (1509kbps) DTS. Not too many of those around, and when you do identify them, most are hard to find.
     
  11. Mark Basile

    Mark Basile Stunt Coordinator

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    Sorry to say, but I believe it's your Yamaha at fault. I had a Yamaha receiver, and I had a ton of dropouts on DTS tracks, all of which were "reproducible". Switched to Denon, checked, and all the dropouts were gone. I don't know what it is about Yamaha DTS decoders, but they don't seem to very good at decoding it.
     
  12. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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    Thanks for the reply Mark, but I am 100% certain that my Yamaha is not at fault. I tried the exact same sequences with my XBox and they do not drop-out at all. Furthermore, I tried to switch my DVD player to optical rather than digital coax and I still get the drop outs.

    I am also sure its not the Yamaha because of the fact that if it was you'd see a whole lot more posts from owners of the RX-V1400/RX-V2400 complaining about this issue.
     

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