My dilemma: Panasonic ZT vs. Samsung F8500 (1 Viewer)

[Ronald Epstein]

Currently, they have one left in stock. http://www.amazon.co...eywords=64f8500
When I checked a few minutes earlier, they had two left.

Rickard, that is true, but read a little further down and you'll find a notation from Amazon.
...and what they have left is not being sold by Amazon

 

[RickardL]

Rickard, that is true, but read a little further down and you'll find a notation from Amazon.
...and what they have left is not being sold by Amazon

Yes, I saw that just after I had posted the reply. See my edited post where I included the notice.

 

[schan1269]

I'll reiterate(cause things get forgotten)...

I "hate" Samsung to begin with. (so take that for a lot here...)

I have a Samsung washer/dryer. The newest HE design. Why did I buy Samsung over Whirlpool, LG and others?

These were the only ones(in stock I could get in less than a week...the ones at home died) without the spray steam dryer and the other crap I didn't want(there was a Whirlpool set you actually poured 20 some ounces of detergent in...and it did a "water sample" to determine how much detergent to actually use...but I wasn't spending another $1000 for that).

This dryer has had 3 drum bearings installed in it. Samsung won't allow a better roller bearing be installed. Once the warranty is over(I registered them, so I got 15 months..and the credit card doubled) I am replacing the bearings with the ones the "fix-it" guy recommends every time he comes to the house.

According to Samsung...each bearing itself is its own repair. There are two...one has been replaced twice. The W/D are 13 months old. Can't wait for month 15 to get here so the credit card company can pay for the aftermarket bearings(which both, I guarantee, will fail again between month 15 and 24).

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Okay, Schan, we get it...

...you hate Samsung.

That doesn't mean there is a problem with this Samsung display.

As I noted, I have been involved in several forums dealing with Samsung F8500 owners and complaints seem to be minimal.

In fact, there are more praises than not. Amazon reviews are greatly favorable.

There doesn't seem to be a consensus among the majority of owners I have talked with that there are consistent issues here.

Just as many complaints about the ZT60, in fact, as the F8500.

So your hatred towards Samsung doesn't amount to any credible proof that there is a Samsung manufacturing issue...

...at least for the moment (and perhaps never).

 

[schan1269]

Fair enough.

The "biggies"...

Buzzing. All plasma buzz(even my Hitachi). The worst buzzer I've ever heard was a Kuro, go figure.

Caps. Supposedly fixed late 2012. Even the Samsung rep at a Best Buy confirmed that "Samsung finally did something about it".

Viewing angle. This one I don't even understand. It is a plasma. How does a plasma not have "essentially" 180 degree viewing?

 

[FoxyMulder]

Fair enough.

The "biggies"...

Buzzing. All plasma buzz(even my Hitachi). The worst buzzer I've ever heard was a Kuro, go figure.

Caps. Supposedly fixed late 2012. Even the Samsung rep at a Best Buy confirmed that "Samsung finally did something about it".

Viewing angle. This one I don't even understand. It is a plasma. How does a plasma not have "essentially" 180 degree viewing?

My Samsung is from November 2012, here we are in January 2014 and no issues with caps failing, viewing angles are great, as for buzzing, i don't get the complaints, my plasma has zero buzzing, absolutely zero, what frequency is the buzzing at, all i can think is the buzzing has to be higher in frequency than 13khz and that's why i cannot hear it, if it's lower than that frequency then my set has none. Oh and my plasma has zero image retention, seriously it's got zero, most plasmas will get some though, i think it's their implementation or use of indium tin oxide of the ito less variety that helps my set, anyways CNET accidentally left the set on overnight, they found the Samsung had no discernable image retention, i can confirm my set gets none no matter what.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57449881-221/samsung-plasma-wins-cnets-accidental-burn-in-test/

I know you dislike Samsung but perhaps if you bought into one of their latest higher end sets you might change your mind.

 

[schan1269]

Luckily, in the last 9 months, I've bought six 42-50" plasma sets, including the two P50X901 I already had. Sold three RPTV and replaced tubes in bedrooms.So my house has 8 plasma. I knew 6 months before reported, Panny was closing shop.Remember, I sold wholesale. Wholesale tends to know things before retail/magazines.

 

[AlaskanAVGuy]

Wow is this Forum dead now since the Panasonics are no longer being sold? Great TV's my father owns the ZT60 & I the F8500. Both have their pluses and minuses.

But now that the Samsung F8500 has been announce to be carried into production thru 2014 their is certain to be even more owners now that the competition Panny's have bowed out to focus on upcomming technology.

Sadly Plasma TV's are dying and here's why

1. Pixels are too BIG to squeeze twice as many in the same screen sizes.
A current 65-inch, full HD Panasonic plasma with a native screen resolution of 1920×1080, for example the 65″ VT65/VT60, has a pixel pitch of 0.747mm. The smallest pixel pitch ever recorded on a commercially available plasma TV is 0.48mm, found on every single 42-inch full HD 1080p Panasonic plasma like the TX-P42ST60. In order to squeeze twice the number of pixels both horizontally and vertically into a 65in screen with 3840×2160 resolution, plasma television makers have to somehow find a way to halve pixel pitch down to about 0.32mm, which is 33% smaller than the smallest pixel pitch on record for a publicly purchasable PDP. Tall order.

2. European Union Energy Standards have tightened down on the higher energy consumption of Plasma's and seeings how 4k would Double Power Consumption they do not meet the new energy standards. Since TV Manufactures ship Worldwide this makes Plasma TV's obsolete. Because it would take a lot of R&D to fix both of these issues.

While the lower Picture Quality of LCD's already have Small Pixel Sizes & Low Energy Consumption.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Wow is this Forum dead now since the Panasonics are no longer being sold? Great TV's my father owns the ZT60 & I the F8500. Both have their pluses and minuses.

But now that the Samsung F8500 has been announce to be carried into production thru 2014 their is certain to be even more owners now that the competition Panny's have bowed out to focus on upcomming technology.

Sadly Plasma TV's are dying and here's why

1. Pixels are too BIG to squeeze twice as many in the same screen sizes.
A current 65-inch, full HD Panasonic plasma with a native screen resolution of 1920×1080, for example the 65″ VT65/VT60, has a pixel pitch of 0.747mm. The smallest pixel pitch ever recorded on a commercially available plasma TV is 0.48mm, found on every single 42-inch full HD 1080p Panasonic plasma like the TX-P42ST60. In order to squeeze twice the number of pixels both horizontally and vertically into a 65in screen with 3840×2160 resolution, plasma television makers have to somehow find a way to halve pixel pitch down to about 0.32mm, which is 33% smaller than the smallest pixel pitch on record for a publicly purchasable PDP. Tall order.

2. European Union Energy Standards have tightened down on the higher energy consumption of Plasma's and seeings how 4k would Double Power Consumption they do not meet the new energy standards. Since TV Manufactures ship Worldwide this makes Plasma TV's obsolete. Because it would take a lot of R&D to fix both of these issues.

While the lower Picture Quality of LCD's already have Small Pixel Sizes & Low Energy Consumption.

You read HDTV Test too i see, they have made "fake" 4K plasma using a technique much like JVC do with their E-Shift, this is part of Panasonic's professional range though and costs hundreds of thousands of dollars and isn't real 4K.

 

[AlaskanAVGuy]

Some people say that 1080 is old news and on the way out and that 4K is just around the Corner:

Well the Exact same things were said over 5 years ago on March 10, 2009 by: http://reviews.cnet.com/720p-vs-1080p-hdtv/

"Eventually, of course, manufacturers will completely phase out 720p TVs. But it may take a few years. While the number of new 720p models is dwindling, several manufacturers, including Sony, Samsung, LG, and Panasonic, are putting out entry-level lines in 2009 that feature 720p TVs and we're getting a lot of readers asking whether they should save some dough and buy them."

Now it's 5 years later and were still releasing 720p TV's in 2014 and the majority of programming
for Directv, Dish Network & Cable is 720p with a much smaller percentage of 1080i channels available. The best indicator of the future is our past. 1080 isn't going anywhere for quite some time regardless of sales pitches.

"Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it."

 

[AlaskanAVGuy]

You read HDTV Test too i see, they have made "fake" 4K plasma using a technique much like JVC do with their E-Shift, this is part of Panasonic's professional range though and costs hundreds of thousands of dollars and isn't real 4K.

Ya I use to post over there but got tired of all the Trolls, I have the same Username as over there and Icon so you can read everything that i've posted on the F8500 Forums. But i'm done with them so I made an account over here. Hoping to breathe new life into these Forums when I can.

 

[RickardL]

Welcome!

 

[FoxyMulder]

Ya I use to post over there but got tired of all the Trolls, I have the same Username as over there and Icon so you can read everything that i've posted on the F8500 Forums. But i'm done with them so I made an account over here. Hoping to breathe new life into these Forums when I can.

I don't ever recall HDTV Test having trolls although its been a few weeks since i was last in, can you tell me what happened, i think i took part in those F8500 forums too, people would joke around occasionally but that's it, private PM me if you wish.

:EDIT: Just checked all 11 pages of the F8500 thread and i don't see your name in that forum and nor do i see any trolls, do you mean another thread in the Samsung area. ?

 

[Sgt Pepper]

Ya I use to post over there but got tired of all the Trolls, I have the same Username as over there and Icon so you can read everything that i've posted on the F8500 Forums. But i'm done with them so I made an account over here. Hoping to breathe new life into these Forums when I can.

Sorry been looking for your name and posts over on HDTVtest and your not listed as a member or have you made any posts also have I not seen any trolling behaviour. Maybe you are confusing it with another forum or maybe some sort of agenda?

 

[RickardL]

Sorry been looking for your name and posts over on HDTVtest and your not listed as a member or have you made any posts also have I not seen any trolling behaviour. Maybe you are confusing it with another forum or maybe some sort of agenda?

it is the avs forum.

 

[FoxyMulder]

it is the avs forum.

That explains it.

 

[AlaskanAVGuy]

I don't ever recall HDTV Test having trolls although its been a few weeks since i was last in, can you tell me what happened, i think i took part in those F8500 forums too, people would joke around occasionally but that's it, private PM me if you wish.

:EDIT: Just checked all 11 pages of the F8500 thread and i don't see your name in that forum and nor do i see any trolls, do you mean another thread in the Samsung area. ?

Well the moderators delete anytime Trolls make such comments so they are deleted already you would have to be reading the conversation the day of to catch it. This one guy who will remain nameless kept arguing with me about the ZT60 & F8500 regarding Light Output and I tried explaining to him that the F8500 puts out TWICE the Light Output.

But here's a link to some comments I made some 165 posts on that acct:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1467675/f8500-recommended-settings-thread/1830

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1463454/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/11100

ps: If you click on my Name there you can view All of my old Posts the ones about the F8500 are made this year. As I just got my TV in Jan of 2014

 

[AlaskanAVGuy]

Yes they stacked the deck of a Freshly Calibrated ZT versus the old Calibration of a F8500

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/zt-201403233655.htm
The Last – And Best – Panasonic Plasma We’ll Ever Review By Vincent Teoh 23 March 2014, 2:00 pm GMT

After all that has been said about the ZT & F8500 the jury is in again and the clear winner for

Day Viewing is the Samsung F8500 " obvious choice in a very bright room"
Night Viewing is the Panasonic ZT by a "hair’s breadth"

hdtvtest quotes

"Switching [Panel Luminance] to “High” would increase plasma dithering noise (especially in shadowed areas) owing to coarser gradation, but it was not noticeable during the day from a sensible viewing distance. This highest [Panel Luminance] setting also clips whiter-than-white (WTW) shades entirely (i.e. above 235), though there’s a method to at least partially restore WTW detail up to 240 in line with other picture presets (as previously noted in our original review, the Panasonic TXP60ZT65B does not display the full range of WTW shades unless [Contrast] is dropped to uncomfortably low levels)."

"This is a top-notch display for all seasons, and only Samsung’s revolutionary F8500 whose luminance ceiling is higher can boast better bright-room performance among plasma display panels (PDPs)."

"fan noise and plasma buzzing (which became louder as the screen got brighter) were not out of the ordinary for plasma TVs, and were certainly trivial in light of the set’s stunning picture quality." "for critical viewing in a dimly-lit environment, the Panasonic ZT65/ZT60 is just a hair’s breadth better. "

"TX-P60ZT65 sample produced a maximum brightness of 130 cd/m2 from the AVSHD 100% white windowed pattern, which is not to be sneezed at for a plasma of this size."

Final Review of Samsung PN60F8500 Plasma Written by Kevin Miller @tweaktv

"The peak light output for the Cal-Day mode was an impressive 66 fL, which is significantly brighter than any 60-inch or larger plasma I have ever measured. I suspect the panel is capable of more light output in the Dynamic (Read: Best Buy Torch Mode) mode, but I did not make that measurement as it has no pertinence to a calibrated picture. "

So the Smaller and Brighter 60" ZT produced 37ft./L at it absolute Highest Setting,
while F8500 hits 66ft/L.

I made this quote under my other acct aj32581 on avsforums

 

[Ronald Epstein]

AlaskanAVGuy,


Wanted to welcome you aboard. Know very well who you are.

I went over to AVS because of the sheer number of people there
who owned both the ZT60 and the F8500.

Having owned both displays, I made comments in favor of the F8500
that did not settle well with some of the ZT60 owners.

I have never seen the level of trolling anywhere that I see over on
that forum. There were two members there in particular that went out
of their way to step all over any member that favored the F8500 display.
The Moderators do very little to control the trolling. In fact, they tend to
go after the people that fight back at the trolls rather than deal with the
situation itself.

I try not to badmouth other forums. I think that other forum serves a
tremendous purpose based on its size. I have been a member there
since its inception. However, I can see why some people walk away
from it. The trolling is just immense and it doesn't seem like there is
a lot done about it.

I won't even post in the threads that deal with the ZT60 vs. F8500 as I
know my comments are going to get skewed.

 

[schan1269]

I stopped posting over at AVS because...There was a guy wiring up a 1 acre yard with 8 speakers wired in combo series/parallel. Great. I told him how to do it, some other "respected individual" pm'd the guy and threw my idea out the window.Comes back complaining over the sound quality. I asked him what he did.He posted his outline. Nowhere close to what I said to do.Went from 500 Total feet of 14awg wire to 750 feet of 18.I asked who gave him that design...to wit..."That guy is a frickin moron. Dig it up, do what I told you to do"Next day...log-in was suspended. When I came back, the guy re-wired my way...it worked.