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My 2000 Jetta VR6 needs more power (1 Viewer)

Mark C Sherman

Second Unit
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I was concidering getting the new Jetta VR6 GLI that has a 24 valve V6 with 201 HP but that means trading in my car for a loss and having 5 more years of payments. Is a chip available to increase the HP or is there any way I can get up to at least 200 hp without voiding the WARR. I really love my car and I want the most bang for the buck. Any suggestions?

Oh By the WAY I OWN a 2000 Jetta VR6

Thanks

Sherm
 

AjayM

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It would help to know what kind of car ya own.

Besides that, a few of legal tidbits on warranties. A dealer/manufacture can't deny warranty service just because your car has aftermarket parts, it's illegal. However they can deny warranty if an aftermarket part was deemed to cause the problem. For instance.

You install lowering springs on your car - 2 months later you need new axles on the car and screwed up the ball joints, etc. - They can deny you warranty on this because it won't be hard to prove that the lowering springs added extra stress to those parts.

You install lowering springs on your car - 2 months later your trasmission dies. - They aren't going to be able to deny service here very easily, the dealer/manufacture has to prove that those springs blew out the trasmission.

Now those are pretty plain and simple examples. If you install a chip, and have any kind of engine problem, you are up the creek with no paddle. You could always swap in the original chip, but there are some legal issues with that as well.

The burden of proof is always with the dealer/manufacture, if they want to deny a warranty claim, tell them to prove it. But remember you have now entered the pain in the butt world of fighting with your dealership in order to get stuff done. Do you want to fight with them in order to get something fixed, etc?

Andrew
 

John Garcia

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Do a search for VW/GTI forums (on the web...). There are TONS of them, and plenty of parts for those cars.

The standard BPU that you will hear about are - I/H/E (Intake, header, exhaust) That will typically net you in the 8-10hp range. That will be noticable, and is more than you think. Chips are worth it, but not as a first mod.

The real question is, what is the goal, then you know what to look for.
 

Keith Mickunas

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Head on over to the Vortex and do a bit of research there. Its filled with lots of trolls, but at the same time they've got more discussions going on there then just about anywhere else.
 

Chet_F

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John Garcia

"The standard BPU that you will hear about are - I/H/E (Intake, header, exhaust)"

My thoughts exactly. I own a 1997 Jeep Wrangler and installed a new exhaust manifold and it is like night/day. There are alos K/N filters that can increase HP but intake, header, exhasut will do the most.

Good Luck
 

Mark C Sherman

Second Unit
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Thanks for the quick input guys. I heard something about a "COLD AIR INTAKE" is that something different from a reg intake. Im not to sure about the headers. Very tight quarters under the hood.

Thanks again Guys

SHERM
 

Stephen_Opipari

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It'd be a little difficult to cheaply get the stock 174hp VR6 up to 200hp. There are indeed chips available that add a few hp. But since it is not turbo charged, your chip can't just increase boost for big gains like the 1.8T. If you change out your intake, thats a few more hp. Exhaust one or two more, but your still going to by shy. If you want to add more hp you need to start looking into new cams and such, but that gets expensive so fast that you might be better off taking the loss equity of your car and getting somthing that's faster out of the gate.
Are you sure it's not torque (oomph off the line)that you want more of as opposed to hp (top speed)? I have a 2000 Jetta 1.8T which was rated stock at 150hp/155lb tq. I chipped it and am now sitting at ~200hp/210lb tq with just the chip. But again, that's turbocharged and the car is now pushing the turbo at .8 bar as opposed to the stock .5 bar.
Also, what type of tranny do you have? Automagic makes a big difference (slows you down) since you have more weight and driveline loss. I did get an auto, and wish I didn't. But, I will rectify that on my next car. :D
Personally...I'd get the GLI when they come out, thoes look *sweet*. Or, how about a GTI 1.8T and then chip it?
 

Richard Travale

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Check out some of the major aftermarket dealers. Neuspeed, techtonics, RPI. They will have everything that you would need and want.Also, I would recommend picking up an issue or 12 of VW Tuner or Max Power.
 

John Garcia

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Yep. The reason I asked what the GOAL is, is becuause if the goal is a solid 200HP, it is likely the only way you are going to get that is with relatively expensive internal work - things like port & polish, cams, raised compression, upgraded fuel system, etc...

As menitoned, even with the best of every bolt on part you can find, you are pushing the limit of being able to hit 200HP, and it will still not be inexpensive.

The short answer is NOS. A 50 shot will get you what you want, but you also run the risks associated with it and it is not on all the time.

The long answer usually is look for a car that has the performance you are looking for, becuase that is easier in the end than trying to squeeze too much out of a lesser car. Any car can be made faster, it's just a matter of money.

Cold air intake, or CAI, is often the first bolt on. CAIs tend to be larger and less restrictive than the stock intake, allowing for more air flow. A CAI usually trys to relocate the filter or inlet to pull air as far from the engine compartment as possible to get cooler air. Whether the temp drop is actually useful in normal daily applications is up for debate, but the increased flow is definitely worth some HP. As noted, this will average only a few HP.

The exhaust is typically where the most bolt on power can be gained, but a full exhaust - header, high flow cat, and cat-back exhaust is not cheap, and will not net HUGE gains. Noticable yes, but 30HP, no.
 

Mark C Sherman

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After reading this is what i would want to do

NEW Intake maybe an extra 5-7 hp

New Exhaust maybe an extra 10-12 maybe

New Chip (BIG MAYBE)

Good set of plugs and wires (if needed)

would that be close to what i would get doing those mods or am I dreaming?

I just want my car to run just a little better I'm not making it into 9 second sleeper

Again thanks for the input

SHERM
 

Stephen_Opipari

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Mark,

When you say you want it to run a little better what do you mean exactly? Are you looking for more oomph off the line at stoplights?

It kind of sounds to me like you are looking for more oomph off the line which is torque you are looking for over hp. Torque is even harder to get then more hp and ususally requires some extensive work to get there. There's a few turbo and S/C kits out for the VR6 that make the VR6 'killer', but that is *big* dollars.
 

Mark C Sherman

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Better OOmph of the line would be good, and Passing on the highway when I drop it into 4th or 3rd. Thats all, nothing big just a few extra ponies. For a few Bucks
 

John Garcia

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On stock ignition and compression, plugs and wires will make no meaningful difference, but it doesn't hurt.

Intake: 5-7 HP

Exhaust - 10-12HP

However, both combined will not necessarily total an addition of 19HP peak as it may seem. How they work together will determine the end result.

Passing on the highway means you want more torque. Look for parts that increase low to midrange vs upper end power.

The best bet is to find a good VW forum and look around for the proven to perform parts.
 

John Blaze

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Heh, you should just trade in your VR6 for a 1.8T, like what I've got =)and then get 50 hp out of a chip! Chips for the Normally Aspirated cars do not do that much. I really think if you're serious about some major horsies, Forced Induction is the only way to go. I think shops like HPA have turbo kits for the VR6's. Kinda expensivo, but then again you're be upping the performance. Check out www.vwvortex.com (one of my favorite sites)
 

AjayM

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Ummm, hp and torque are directly related, hp = torque * RPM / 5252. You can't make more torque and not make more hp.

Now, as to bolt on modifications, you can't just add up numbers and think you will get a better peak number. In fact there are even times when a mod will lower your peak hp, but broaden your power range, so it feels like you are making more power.

As to some good mods, an intake isn't bad but make sure it's getting air from somewhere other than the engine compartment (hot air is bad for making power), don't go for a system that places the air filter inches above the ground, sooner or later you will find a puddle just deep enough to hydra-lock the engine. I'm not sure how the stock intake design is on the Jetta, but on a lot of cars, simply replacing the paper filter with a K&N will yield you the same hp increase as other air intake systems.

Exhaust systems. Sometimes very noisy for very little gains, and usually not worth the money unless you fix all of the bottle-necks in the chain (like the header), don't worry to much about the catalytic converter, the ones today flow pretty good stock. Also remember that you need to keep some backpressure on the exhaust side in order to keep your lower end power range (at least on a NA engine). A well designed header and exhaust system together will give you some nice gains.

Some other tricks are bigger throttle bodies, ECU programming is only useful if you can custom program to your car, playing with fuel pressure. Do they make adjustable cam timing gears for the VR6 engines? If they do that will be a big bang for the buck increase in power.

Stay away from fancy spark plugs (you're better off changing them every 5-7k miles with the plain copper ones), plug wires, ignition systems (not going to push the limits of the ignition system until you get a little more exotic).

Either way, you're not going to get to 200hp without digging a lot deeper, and even then you are probably just going to be freeing up power at the top end (while sacrificing power down low). If you want more "around town" type grunt you are going to need to go to some type of forced induction setup either supercharge it or turbocharge it. Of course you can always get a car with a bigger engine as well.

Andrew
 

John Garcia

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You can turn it one way to add HP or the other to add Foot pounds of torque.
It doesn't work like that. Advancing/retarding cam timing is not that simple, it is a matter of finding the right fuel mixture and intake to exhaust overlap to maximize power where you want it. This requires adjustable cam GEARS to adjust, there are no adjustable "camshafts", not including OEM variable timing setups such as VTEC, VANOS, VVTL-i, etc... Just advancing the timing doesn't make HP, nor does retarding it raise torque. There is always a trade off. Torque and HP will typically change together.

Cam gears require you to be able to adjust fuel curves and timing on a dyno to get things right. Dyno tuning is not cheap. $60-$75/hr around here for dyno time, and you will need at least 1-2hrs typically. This is also mainly for fine tuning with stock cams, and will not net large gains either, but is basically a necessity for aftermarket cams.

Other things that can help are a lightened flywheel (faster spin-up, less reciprocating mass) and lighten the CAR itself - less mass for the same HP to move...
 

Stephen_Opipari

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As others have mentioned check out www.vwvortex.com forums. The signal to noise ratio is high, but there's good information over there.
I believe that the intake on VW's are large enough and the filter free breathing enough that making changes doesn't do anything. I know a lot of the easy bolt on's for VW's cause you to loose a little down low to braoden the power band. There are cams, lightened flywheels, etc for the VR6, but that is not cheap. There are Turbos and S/C's available as I said earlier that cause *dramatic* increases hp and torque (takes the VR6 close to 300hp/300lb tq), but that get's extremely expensive.
As I said, and someone else said earlier, if you want easily tappable, cheap torque, get a 1.8T and chip it. The current 180hp 1.8T will yeild somthing to the tune of 225hp and 248lb torque just with a 1bar chip. As I said earlier, I have a .8bar, but mainly so I wouldn't blow apart my torque converter in my tranny since I have an auto.
 

Philip Hamm

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Maybe I missed your response Sherm, but is the car an auto or manual? If it's an auto then there's not much you can do even with mods to get it to be reasonably responsive in the drivetrain.
 

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