My 2 cents worth on “Brothers Grimm” (1 Viewer)

[William Moore]

And opening credits. The US laser disc pans side-to-side some of it, while the Japanese does not have to with the wider aspect ratio.

I'm going to finish screening "Brothers Grimm" and will report back. Hoping it will get better. At least I have figured out a way to cover the subtitles with a "hard matte." BTW, Roland, I really like your Cinerama website. Too bad you couldn't find a picture of the Uptown's auditorium with the Cinerama screen installed. It was huge! Uptown seated 822 at that time after it was remodeled and the theatre, I believe, was built in the 1920s. I hope no one comes along wanting to tear it down!

 

[haineshisway]

Okay, here's Dave on it and if anyone knows this stuff he does - but read carefully. Was there EVER a large format title scanned for a laser disc release - that would be the question. Because back then it would have been REALLY unusual. Anyway:

65mm does exist - I am not sure if it's 100% complete as the rolls are numbered in a funny manner.
Some rolls were created in 1963 and others re done in 1971 kinda strange.

I would hope its complete and resonable quality, It was most likely made to create the 35mm theatrical version as three panels went to 65mm on optical printer at MGM Labs then from that the 35mm (cropped) was made. Apparently West was done the same way, at least as far as I can tell.

 

[William Moore]

Okay, here's Dave on it and if anyone knows this stuff he does - but read carefully. Was there EVER a large format title scanned for a laser disc release - that would be the question. Because back then it would have been REALLY unusual. Anyway:

65mm does exist - I am not sure if it's 100% complete as the rolls are numbered in a funny manner.
Some rolls were created in 1963 and others re done in 1971 kinda strange.

I would hope its complete and resonable quality, It was most likely made to create the 35mm theatrical version as three panels went to 65mm on optical printer at MGM Labs then from that the 35mm (cropped) was made. Apparently West was done the same way, at least as far as I can tell.

OK, then. Now that that question has been resolved, did David happen to mention, or even hint, that he was going to begin restoring "Brothers Grimm.? As I have said before, he's our only hope. And what about my idea of starting a "Go Fund Me" page to raise money? I'd be willing to bet that most Forum members would be willing to chip in and maybe even Barbara Eden and Russ Tamblyn, too!

 

[ahollis]

OK, then. Now that that question has been resolved, did David happen to mention, or even hint, that he was going to begin restoring "Brothers Grimm.? As I have said before, he's our only hope. And what about my idea of starting a "Go Fund Me" page to raise money? I'd be willing to bet that most Forum members would be willing to chip in and maybe even Barbara Eden and Russ Tamblyn, too!

Not gonna happen. It’s a Warner title and they are not interested.

 

[haineshisway]

Not gonna happen. It’s a Warner title and they are not interested.

Correct, and it's been stated about 100 times before. At some point, I suppose, it will sink in.

 

[haineshisway]

OK, then. Now that that question has been resolved, did David happen to mention, or even hint, that he was going to begin restoring "Brothers Grimm.? As I have said before, he's our only hope. And what about my idea of starting a "Go Fund Me" page to raise money? I'd be willing to bet that most Forum members would be willing to chip in and maybe even Barbara Eden and Russ Tamblyn, too!

Nothing has been "resolved" really. Read what he wrote. And no one has answered my question about a laserdisc that used a large format scan as its transfer.

 

[William Moore]

Well, it was "resolved" that there was indeed a 65mm interpositive created from which to make the 35mm prints and that apparently it is still on hand somewhere. So, yes, I did read what David wrote, and I guess you'll have to do your own research on the last part of your comments. And, I think I'll write to Warners and see if they ARE interested!

 

[RolandL]

Hi Roland,
Did you know Grand Prix is screening in Digital at the Cinerama Dome and in Bradford on the Cinerama screen in October.

Yes, also at the Dome, Battle of the Bulge 9/30, How The West Was Won 10/21, It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World 11/7 with special guests.

 

[RolandL]

Nothing has been "resolved" really. Read what he wrote. And no one has answered my question about a laserdisc that used a large format scan as its transfer.

This article lists titles that were transferred from 70mm.

Ultrascan 70 saw first commercial transfer elements in March 1991. The first feature transfer was "2001:A Space Odyssey" and was mastered direct from a 65mm printing negative number 1, dated 1968, for Turner/MGM/UA. The next restoration projects tackled included non-linear anamorphic, unsqueezed from Ultra Panavision print elements of "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World" and "The Hallelujah Trail". This same process was used in the restoration of "The Alamo". Universal Studios utilized their 65mm inter positive, made optically from the 35mm Technirama negative, for the supervisor transfer of "Spartacus". Transfer of MGM/UA's "West Side Story" was made from a 65mm laboratory inter positive and was supervised by the director Robert Wise.

 

[RolandL]

Not gonna happen. It’s a Warner title and they are not interested.

It's half owned by Warner and half Cinerama. But Warner would have to give the OK.

 

[William Moore]

This article lists titles that were transferred from 70mm.

Ultrascan 70 saw first commercial transfer elements in March 1991. The first feature transfer was "2001:A Space Odyssey" and was mastered direct from a 65mm printing negative number 1, dated 1968, for Turner/MGM/UA. The next restoration projects tackled included non-linear anamorphic, unsqueezed from Ultra Panavision print elements of "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World" and "The Hallelujah Trail". This same process was used in the restoration of "The Alamo". Universal Studios utilized their 65mm inter positive, made optically from the 35mm Technirama negative, for the supervisor transfer of "Spartacus". Transfer of MGM/UA's "West Side Story" was made from a 65mm laboratory inter positive and was supervised by the director Robert Wise.

"...alright, alright, alright..."

 

[William Moore]

It's half owned by Warner and half Cinerama. But Warner would have to give the OK.

Roland: Don't you think that Warners would give the go-ahead if David Strohmeier decided to take on the project? And, what about John Sittig? Would he be in favor of the "Grimm Brothers" restoration?

 

[Stephen_J_H]

Roland: Don't you think that Warners would give the go-ahead if David Strohmeier decided to take on the project? And, what about John Sittig? Would he be in favor of the "Grimm Brothers" restoration?

Here's the thing: this is a title that fits best into the Warner Archive Collection business model, but the costs of restoration far exceed the standard Warner Archive budget. Case in point: the recent Blu-ray release of Seven Brides for Seven Brothers only happened because Warner was able to track down a pre-70mm blowup interpositive of the film, as the OCN had been damaged by wear and tear of creating 70mm prints. To work from the OCN and attempt a digital restoration would've been far too expensive for WAC. Similarly, dealing with a water-damaged OCN for Brothers Grimm is far too expensive for WAC's model, and Warner Media [the new parent company created by the merger of Time Warner and AT&T] will not allow materials to leave the studio for someone like David Strohmaier to do a digital transfer and low-budget restoration. More importantly, Warner would NEVER allow a release harvested from a 65mm IP, as it doesn't meet their quality standards.

So there you have it.

 

[RolandL]

Roland: Don't you think that Warners would give the go-ahead if David Strohmeier decided to take on the project? And, what about John Sittig? Would he be in favor of the "Grimm Brothers" restoration?

Sorry no I don't think they would. Warner probably lost money on the How The West Was Won Blu-ray. Grimm would cost even more to restore with less sales.

 

[haineshisway]

This article lists titles that were transferred from 70mm.

Ultrascan 70 saw first commercial transfer elements in March 1991. The first feature transfer was "2001:A Space Odyssey" and was mastered direct from a 65mm printing negative number 1, dated 1968, for Turner/MGM/UA. The next restoration projects tackled included non-linear anamorphic, unsqueezed from Ultra Panavision print elements of "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World" and "The Hallelujah Trail". This same process was used in the restoration of "The Alamo". Universal Studios utilized their 65mm inter positive, made optically from the 35mm Technirama negative, for the supervisor transfer of "Spartacus". Transfer of MGM/UA's "West Side Story" was made from a 65mm laboratory inter positive and was supervised by the director Robert Wise.

Then can you please explain the substandard Hallelujah Trail transfers on Blu-ray?

 

[williammoore]

Lots of speculation here about what may be, but I'm not ready to give up just yet!

 

[ahollis]

Lots of speculation here about what may be, but I'm not ready to give up just yet!

Nothing said concerning the damage, cost or Warner’s non interest in WWOBG is speculation. This topic has been discussed for years, or at least since HTWWW was released on Blu and by many experts in the know.

I do hope you can change the minds of those in control, but I’m very doubtful.

 

[haineshisway]

In the end it's very simple math: After the ten people in this thread purchase it, that will be it. They'd be lucky to sell 1,000 of them and it's not worth their time and/or resources to embark on the kind of work this film would need. This isn't a film like Harper - this is a huge undertaking and they could never justify the expense of of it, unless they're suddenly feeling benevolent.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Unfortunately, there will be zero movement on this title unless and until Warner amends its policy to allow for relaxing their standards for special exception titles. They only are willing to do work in-house, but do not have a cost-efficient method for restoring this title at their own facilities. At present time, they have shown zero interest in doing so, and as the owner of this title, they are obviously free to do with it as they wish. They are unwilling to allow anyone else to work on it. So, permanent stalemate.

 

[Stephen_J_H]

This article lists titles that were transferred from 70mm.

Ultrascan 70 saw first commercial transfer elements in March 1991. The first feature transfer was "2001:A Space Odyssey" and was mastered direct from a 65mm printing negative number 1, dated 1968, for Turner/MGM/UA. The next restoration projects tackled included non-linear anamorphic, unsqueezed from Ultra Panavision print elements of "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World" and "The Hallelujah Trail". This same process was used in the restoration of "The Alamo". Universal Studios utilized their 65mm inter positive, made optically from the 35mm Technirama negative, for the supervisor transfer of "Spartacus". Transfer of MGM/UA's "West Side Story" was made from a 65mm laboratory inter positive and was supervised by the director Robert Wise.

Then can you please explain the substandard Hallelujah Trail transfers on Blu-ray?

Easy. Transfers in 1991 would've been at SD resolutions, so any transfer done for BD would've been done later. Whoever handled the harvests for the BD release didn't know what they were doing, or didn't have access to 65mm archival elements, and therefore worked from a 35mm reduction element to questionable results [see the BD of 2001 for comparison].