My 2 cents worth on “Brothers Grimm” (1 Viewer)

[RolandL]

... Smilebox helps me remember the years I spent at DC's late, great Uptown Theatre.

Still has the deeply curved screen.

 

[RichMurphy]

Still has the deeply curved screen.

Maybe. Who knows what has been done inside the building since the theatre shut down. I guess the Uptown was a trendsetter one last time - it closed down before every other theater in DC closed down, for a different reason.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...fff8a0-655b-11ea-845d-e35b0234b136_story.html

 

[RichMurphy]

You know, Mr. Insider is baffling and more than a little off-putting. Every day they seemingly announce another 100 titles that I cannot believe would be of interest to a single human being - stuff from the 80s and 90s, mostly crap, and some stuff even I have never heard of - I mean, The 300 Year Weekend or whatever that thing is called that I can't believe a single person would ever have on a list of things they must have - THAT stuff they're thrilled to release with all the "New 2K or 4K transfer" nonsense, but when asked if they were going to release Flower Drum Song, a title that WOULD sell, his response? "We're not interested in that title." I mean, really?

Perhaps the fact that both THE CONQUEROR and FLOWER DRUM SONG feature outdated caricatures of Asian people was a factor, while semi-naked women and violence always remain in vogue. (Then again, John Wayne ripped off Susan Hayward's clothes before fifteen minutes had passed in THE CONQUEROR. )

 

[Bernard McNair]

I am really excited by the news of a restored Brothers Grimm. As a young child I saw it on the Cinerama Screen at The Plaza in Sydney. I thoroughly enjoyed the film and saw it on other occasions in 35 mm “at popular prices”.
I look forward to owning it in a restored print as the print that TCM had in Australia was terrible.
The film is entertaining and the musical score is excellent.

 

[cinemiracle]

Please don't take this as a criticism, as the same effect occurred when viewing an original 3-strip Cinerama presentation in the theatre if you were sitting in the back half of the theatre.

I had the good fortune to see all the original five 3-strip Cinerama films multiple times in two different Cinerama theatres (the Princess and the Cinerama) in Honolulu.
I saw both The Brothers Grimm and Windjammer multiple times at the Cinerama in Honolulu.
I saw HTWWW multiple times in 3 different theatres (the Cinerama in Honolulu, the Orpheum in San Francisco, and the Cooper in Minneapolis (actually St. Louis Park)).
I also had the good fortune to work at both the Denver and Minneapolis Cooper theatres as a projectionist after the conversion to 70mm single strip Cinerama.

View attachment 78756
My personal preference for viewing in any of the 3-strip Cinerama venues was always from the first 3 or 4 rows. Maximum involvement, and I was never bothered by vertigo, regardless of the scene. While this is purely a personal preference, I believe it may explain my lack of enthusiasm for the Smilebox format on blueray.

The following image shows what the Cinerama experience looks like when sitting in the rear of the theatre. In all fairness, I believe it was taken after the age of 3-strip had passed as it looks like the curtains were not opened to where they would have been for a 3-strip presentation.
View attachment 78755

I think Smilebox works well for a video projection presentation on an actual Cinerama screen in an actual Cinerama theatre. I say "I think" because as I have not personally seen it. It's merely an opinion. However, as you can see from the above picture it simply does not recreate the involvement that is possible when sitting in the front third of the theatre.

However, the technical nitpicking that I have posted about the lack of non-smilebox versions of these Blueray discs does not in any way reduce my appreciation and thankfulness to all those who have worked so hard and so long to insure that we can appreciate the multiple wonderful releases of the 3-strip Cinerama and Cinemiracle films that would otherwise be lost to us and all following generations.
If it were not for them, all I would have are the memories from 50+ years ago of sitting in a theatre in awe of the involvement of the original 3 strip Cinerama films.

Vern

I also was lucky to have seen all the 3 -strip films several times in Cinerama. I saw How The West Was Won several times in 2 countries and GRAND PRIX ( 70mm cinerama) in 4 countries in 6 Cinerama cinemas. The memories will never be forgotten.My dream is to see all the 3 strip films restored and shown in Cinerama cinemas in 3-strip film- not digital (which I hate). That is unlikely to ever happen however. Cinemas are likely to receive their films by CLOUD rather than the current hard-drives,I can only wonder at what the quality will be like. Six countries will be the first to receive some of their films this way. It looks like films on hard-drives will follow the way of 35mm film very soon.

 

[cinemiracle]

I am really excited by the news of a restored Brothers Grimm. As a young child I saw it on the Cinerama Screen at The Plaza in Sydney. I thoroughly enjoyed the film and saw it on other occasions in 35 mm “at popular prices”.
I look forward to owning it in a restored print as the print that TCM had in Australia was terrible.
The film is entertaining and the musical score is excellent.

I too loved the Plaza Cinerama cinema.Pity they turned the front section into a McDonald's.

 

[OliverK]

I project less wide. My screen is 144" diagonal, so the image is still an impressive size. I have all of the Strohmaier Cinerama Blu-Rays, so I have a "Cinerama" preset on my Epson projector, along with "Flat", "CinemaScope" and "70mm/Todd-AO".

That's the better choice, I think this comes out to approximately 2:1 or 2.1:1 aspect ratio? I love the option to have plenty of lens memory presets in the top end Epson HT projectors and to also be able to label them.

 

[haineshisway]

Perhaps the fact that both THE CONQUEROR and FLOWER DRUM SONG feature outdated caricatures of Asian people was a factor, while semi-naked women and violence always remain in vogue. (Then again, John Wayne ripped off Susan Hayward's clothes before fifteen minutes had passed in THE CONQUEROR. )

Flower Drum Song was not made today, does not take place today, and accurately reflects Asians of the period in a VERY respectful way by all concerned. For heaven's sake, the entire cast is Asian - unheard of in 1961 in a film. The book was written by an Asian. I thought and think it a rather lame decision on their part as well as an annoying one given some of the lousy films they issue along with the good ones.

 

[Thomas T]

Flower Drum Song was not made today, does not take place today, and accurately reflects Asians of the period in a VERY respectful way by all concerned. For heaven's sake, the entire cast is Asian - unheard of in 1961 in a film.

Well, almost. Not to nitpick but Juanita Hall who plays Madame Liang is African American (courtesy of her father) and Irish (courtesy of her mother).

 

[moviepas]

I too loved the Plaza Cinerama cinema.Pity they turned the front section into a McDonald's.

Still got the Plaza Melbourne which showed HTWWW and The Windjammer both of which I saw. Not sure what they are doing with the space today but the regent above has done many stage shows in recent years.

 

[cinemiracle]

Still got the Plaza Melbourne which showed HTWWW and The Windjammer both of which I saw. Not sure what they are doing with the space today but the regent above has done many stage shows in recent years.

The Plaza Melbourne had been guttered over the years but was eventually restored as a function centre. The Regent is still a live theatre.

 

[RichMurphy]

Flower Drum Song was not made today, does not take place today, and accurately reflects Asians of the period in a VERY respectful way by all concerned. For heaven's sake, the entire cast is Asian - unheard of in 1961 in a film. The book was written by an Asian. I thought and think it a rather lame decision on their part as well as an annoying one given some of the lousy films they issue along with the good ones.

I'm not arguing with you, but judging older films by today's standards rather than the standards of their time isn't exactly a rare phenomenon. It saddens me how the work of such artists as James Baskett and Tim Moore remains unavailable, legally at least.

Getting back to GRIMM, while Mr. Puppetoon was indiscreet, I guess I am also partially to blame for copying that information on this thread back in February. I apologize if I violated any embargo.

 

[OliverK]

You know, Mr. Insider is baffling and more than a little off-putting. Every day they seemingly announce another 100 titles that I cannot believe would be of interest to a single human being - stuff from the 80s and 90s, mostly crap, and some stuff even I have never heard of - I mean, The 300 Year Weekend or whatever that thing is called that I can't believe a single person would ever have on a list of things they must have - THAT stuff they're thrilled to release with all the "New 2K or 4K transfer" nonsense, but when asked if they were going to release Flower Drum Song, a title that WOULD sell, his response? "We're not interested in that title." I mean, really?

I guess there are two possible reasons for their release policy:
1. The titles they pick are expected to sell well
2. The titles reflect their taste in movies

Both reasons I would find puzzling as I happen to agree that their 80s and 90s stuff is not that great but what do I know about what people are buying and what not. I just know that I would prefer Flower Drum Song and The Conqueror.

 

[Rob W]

. Cinemas are likely to receive their films by CLOUD rather than the current hard-drives,I can only wonder at what the quality will be like. Six countries will be the first to receive some of their films this way. It looks like films on hard-drives will follow the way of 35mm film very soon.

I'm curious as to what exactly you're referring to here. Many cinemas have been getting their digital files delivered by satellite / internet for years now without any loss in quality as they are bit-for-bit copies of what is on the standard DCP. Your reference to the "CLOUD' suggests you think theatres will be streaming their titles which makes no sense if they can download them once and play them until the engagement is finished.

The satellite transmissions are often pushed days before a playdate to allow for large file sizes, delays or problems with weather, etc. They can't be used until the playdate begins as they are all encrypted and require a digital key to open. And in all cases back-up DCP's are ready to ship should there be a transmission issue or technical glitch.

If I've misunderstood you please set me straight.

 

[RolandL]

Maybe. Who knows what has been done inside the building since the theatre shut down. I guess the Uptown was a trendsetter one last time - it closed down before every other theater in DC closed down, for a different reason.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...fff8a0-655b-11ea-845d-e35b0234b136_story.html

I was there last year and it looked like the following. I didn't know they closed it down.

 

[cinemiracle]

I'm curious as to what exactly you're referring to here. Many cinemas have been getting their digital files delivered by satellite / internet for years now without any loss in quality as they are bit-for-bit copies of what is on the standard DCP. Your reference to the "CLOUD' suggests you think theatres will be streaming their titles which makes no sense if they can download them once and play them until the engagement is finished.

The satellite transmissions are often pushed days before a playdate to allow for large file sizes, delays or problems with weather, etc. They can't be used until the playdate begins as they are all encrypted and require a digital key to open. And in all cases back-up DCP's are ready to ship should there be a transmission issue or technical glitch.

If I've misunderstood you please set me straight.

As I have never seen a film in a cinema that came via satelite so am unable to judge the quality. I very rarely visit a cinema as I have never seen a good quality film that was digital.On a home bluray the quality is great but in a cinema? It has a very long way to go to match film quality. That is why new prints of some 35mm classic films are still being produced.
.The Hollywood Reporter a few days ago, had an article about 'cloud' being the future of cinema as it is cheaper and it does not requires films on hard drives to be delivered to cinemas. Six countries will be tested first (Australia and Mexico will be the first)). If the U.S. company said that it will be much cheaper ,who I to judge otherwise. I have been in numerous projection rooms that screened 3-strip cinerama,70mm cinerama, Todd AO,35mm and Imax but never in a cinema that has digital projection so I am unable to say how that system works. One can only wait and see what benefits that 'cloud' will bring.

 

[Cineman]

...
Getting back to GRIMM, while Mr. Puppetoon was indiscreet, I guess I am also partially to blame for copying that information on this thread back in February. I apologize if I violated any embargo.

Perhaps I can fall on the grenade as well. Back on October 8, 2018, almost two years ago, prior to the Puppetoons release and the posting about the trailer for WWOTBG, I posted a comment on this thread about a friend having attended the screening of GRAND PRIX in the Cinerama Festival taking place at that time in Los Angeles' Cinerama Dome. I posted that he told me a guest speaker at that screening, name unknown to me and not remembered by my friend, announced to great applause that they were working on a restoration of WWOTBG that was going well enough that they hoped it would be ready for screening at the next Cinerama Festival (a year later?):

Post #282

https://www.hometheaterforum.com/community/threads/my-2-cents-worth-on-brothers-grimm.358328/page-15

While it wasn't a media-wide announcement nor one on a forum like this, it was an announcement almost two years ago by someone in the know to a theater full of highly interested movie buffs of an ongoing restoration from which one could logically assume a home video version would follow. I am not aware that whoever made that announcement swore the crowd to secrecy about it. He might have. But if he did my friend who was there for the announcement and related the info to me (and then from me to those reading this thread) didn't mention anything about that.

 

[nara]

I very rarely visit a cinema as I have never seen a good quality film that was digital.

Possibly because you very rarely visit a cinema.

 

[Worth]

...I very rarely visit a cinema as I have never seen a good quality film that was digital.On a home bluray the quality is great but in a cinema? It has a very long way to go to match film quality...

By any objective measure, digital has surpassed film projection, with the exception of real 15/70 IMAX. It's sharper, more stable, cleaner, with equal or superior dynamic range and colour, with none of the downsides, like flicker, dust, and gate weave. Every time I see a film print now, I'm struck by how soft and wobbly the image is. You may prefer the look of projected film, but that doesn't make it "better."

 

[OliverK]

By any objective measure, digital has surpassed film projection, with the exception of real 15/70 IMAX. It's sharper, more stable, cleaner, with equal or superior dynamic range and colour, with none of the downsides, like flicker, dust, and gate weave. Every time I see a film print now, I'm struck by how soft and wobbly the image is. You may prefer the look of projected film, but that doesn't make it "better."

Only film really looks like film. And very good film projected very well looks fantastic.
Not that one can witness that very often...

From what I have seen in 70mm we will pronbably need to have 8k to make digital look more like 70mm film, at least at viewing distances of 1 screen width and below. 4k DCP's just don't quite look like film. This does not only apply with regards to a lack of scratches, wobbling and other defects but also with regard to grain structure and texture of the image, It just doesn't look analog enough at 4k and the prevalence of DLP does not help matters.