Musicals and poorly placed Chapter Stops

Discussion in 'DVD' started by Doug Bull, Apr 3, 2005.

  1. Doug Bull

    Doug Bull Advanced Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2001
    Messages:
    1,542
    Likes Received:
    644
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Real Name:
    Doug Bull
    One of the most frustrating and annoying things in regards to DVDs of Movie MUSICALS is the poor placement of Chapter Stops.
    Just who is responsible? because it appears that they have no idea of what is wanted amongst Musical enthusiasts.

    Surely the start of each Musical number should be Chapter Stopped.

    There are many times when my Wife and I want to have a Musical Evening and preview the Musical Highlites from many different titles without having to watch the whole Movie.
    I'm certain that the same can be said for the majority of Musical lovers.

    Many Laserdiscs got it right, but lately the Chapter placements on Musical DVDs is all over the place.
    The latest Broadway to Hollywood DVD set is good example of how not to get it right.

    Please Studios,from now on give every musical Number a Chapter Stop!
    It is not hard and it would please an awful lot of fans.

    Anybody else agree? [​IMG]
     
  2. Jon Martin

    Jon Martin Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,219
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0


    Totally agree. I don't rewatch a lot of movies all the way through, but find myself watching specific musical numbers in musicals probably the most of all my DVDs. And, to not have the chapter stops correctly is very frustrating.
     
  3. TonyDale

    TonyDale Second Unit

    Joined:
    May 3, 2003
    Messages:
    297
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I agree. Paramount is the worst offender, IMHO, making their musicals seem like non-musicals according to the chapter stops. I think this trend started with PAINT YOUR WAGON.
    MGM has ample chapters on THE APPLE, even seperating Alphie's journey into hell from the actual song of "The Apple."
     
  4. Jay Pennington

    Jay Pennington Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2003
    Messages:
    1,189
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Just so they know (if they're reading) exactly what you want, would you prefer the stop to be exactly where the first note of introductory music (or lyrics if they're first) occurs, or would you want it to include a bit of the dialogue that sets up the number?

    In the latter case it wouldn't have to be an entire scene, especially if the number occurs minutes into it. But, say, if there's a song about trying to jump over a fence, would you want the lead-in dialoge of character A betting character B that he can jump higher than the other?

    A: I bet ya a week a' chores that I can jump at least two feet higher than you, maybe more.
    B: You're plumb loco, Red.
    A: Loco, am I?
    (music: da da da da da da)
    Ohhh, loco I might be, but a fence-jumper am me...


    So, the three lines of dialoge, or just start with "da da da da da da"?
     
  5. Greg_M

    Greg_M Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2000
    Messages:
    1,189
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Jay,

    I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about, but a little lead in to the song would be welcome. Many DVD's get it right. "Paint Your Wagon" is one where no musical number has a chapter stop. Warner Bros and MGM are usually pretty good.
     
  6. Jay Pennington

    Jay Pennington Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2003
    Messages:
    1,189
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0


    Yes, that's what I'm asking. If some of the context of the song within the film is desired or whether it's preferable to just start with what you'd hear on the cast album.
     
  7. Doug Bull

    Doug Bull Advanced Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2001
    Messages:
    1,542
    Likes Received:
    644
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Real Name:
    Doug Bull
    As close to the song start as possible, while considering any reasonably short dialogue lead in. ( don't want 2 or 3 minutes of lead in )

    In most cases the Cast Album start would suit just fine.

    I'm not that sure that Warners and MGM are that good in recent times.
    As I mentioned before, the Chapters on the new Broadway to Hollywood DVD set are very poorly placed.
    Try finding most of the Musical Numbers on that Set.

    You want the Songs, you should be able to see and hear them with a click of the remote control.
    This is just one area where DVDs have an enormous advantage over VHS.
    Why not use it ?
     
  8. Mark Zimmer

    Mark Zimmer Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1997
    Messages:
    4,301
    Likes Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Image does fine with this on their Gene Autry musical westerns, with the song titles getting a named chapter stop, and they're usually well-placed, sometimes with a brief lead-in.
     
  9. DaViD Boulet

    DaViD Boulet Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 1999
    Messages:
    8,800
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Agreed...and I want chapter stops that come in very close to the beginning (or obvious near-by point before) so that I can skip to the "song" like I would on a CD. Ideally, I wouldn't need to even turn on my monitor to see where I was...I could just insert the DVD and skip to the "song" like I was playing a musical compact disc (I do this all the time with Diana K. Live-in-Paris to get the 5.1 DTS "music").
     
  10. LaurenceGarvey

    LaurenceGarvey Second Unit

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2005
    Messages:
    286
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    And here I thought I was the only one who was bothered by this. Funny world. GUYS AND DOLLS should be remastered with pertinent chapter stops to go directly to the songs. In fact, a "play all songs" feature would be nice; THE MONKEES TV show sets have this feature.
     
  11. Jay Pennington

    Jay Pennington Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2003
    Messages:
    1,189
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The DVD for The Rutles does this one better: it has a "play songs only" feature. One button push and you're set!
     
  12. DaViD Boulet

    DaViD Boulet Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 1999
    Messages:
    8,800
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Most Disney animated titles that are musicals have this same "song play" feature...also with subtitles for sing-along.
     
  13. Joe Caps

    Joe Caps Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2000
    Messages:
    2,007
    Likes Received:
    61
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    I kept by thx widescreen laserdisc of Guys and Dolls. It looks and sounds far better than the dvd which looks and sounds terrible. the color is all wrong and the sound is deader than a doornail.
     
  14. DaveK

    DaveK Second Unit

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0

    Doug.....

    What about Easter Parade?
    I thought they did a great job on that movie
     
  15. Russell G

    Russell G Fake Shemp

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2002
    Messages:
    11,518
    Likes Received:
    737
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Deadmonton
    Real Name:
    Russell
    A: I bet ya a week a' chores that I can jump at least two feet higher than you, maybe more.
    B: You're plumb loco, Red.
    A: Loco, am I?
    (music: da da da da da da)
    Ohhh, loco I might be, but a fence-jumper am me...

    Jay, What musical is this?? It sounds friggin' awesome!
     
  16. Doug Bull

    Doug Bull Advanced Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2001
    Messages:
    1,542
    Likes Received:
    644
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Real Name:
    Doug Bull
    Dave,
    The Chapter Stops on Easter Parade are generally OK with a few poorly executed exceptions.

    It Only Happens when I dance with you - (first rendition) - far too early.

    A Fella' with an Umbrella - a little early maybe.

    Shakin' the Blues Away - you would never know the song exsisted - very poorly placed.

    I Love a Piano - Too early

    It only Happens when I Dance with You ( Dance reprise - too early

    A Couple of Swells - very poorly stopped on a previous unrelated scene even though it is close to the song.

    Better Luck Next Time - much too early

    Easter Parade Finale - again, much too early.


    I haven't explored Brigadoon or The Band Wagon properly yet, but I do know that Bells are Ringing and especially Finian's Rainbow are hopeless.
    God Forbid, One Stop in Finian's Rainbow is smack bang near the end of the fabulous "That Great Come and Get it Day" - That one alone proves that not much time or care is taken on placement of Chapter Stops.

    I just hope that something positive comes of this.
     
  17. Jay Pennington

    Jay Pennington Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2003
    Messages:
    1,189
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    LOL, Russell, I needed an example and rather than bother finding a real one (to tell the truth, I'm not a musical enthusaist) I made it up and had a bit of fun with it.

    (Assuming you're not having a bit of fun with me in return with your question, which I fully deserve. [​IMG] )

    Despite the tongue-in-cheek example, though, I was honestly interested in the answers to my question, as the company I work for does produce the occasional DVD (usually corporate stuff, nothing anyone here would've seen). Thanks for the opinions, folks!
     
  18. Russell G

    Russell G Fake Shemp

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2002
    Messages:
    11,518
    Likes Received:
    737
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Deadmonton
    Real Name:
    Russell
    :b

    I can't be the only one interested in fence jumping musicals, am I? YOur characters talk like Gangsters, about chores and fence jumping! I can't be the only one interested in something like this am I

    I just watched Cannibal : The Musical yesterday, so maybe it's effected my aceptance of different musicals ideas.

    You might be onto something there Jay! Thst leed up into the song is priceless!

    Anyways, to the topic at hand, musical chapter stops should be like porn :`right before the action.
     
  19. DaViD Boulet

    DaViD Boulet Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 1999
    Messages:
    8,800
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    got that a/b repeat button on my remote handy...for the musicals... [​IMG]
     
  20. Ernest Rister

    Ernest Rister Producer

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2001
    Messages:
    4,148
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Most Disney animated titles that are musicals have this same "song play" feature...also with subtitles for sing-along.

    I think the high-profile titles do, but some of the more obscure titles don't, most annoyingly on The One and Only, Original, Genuine Family Band (which is a surprisingly good movie). The chapter stops on Family Band are so bad, they even have one mis-named -- "Oh Benjamin Harrison!" - the song does not appear in that chapter, and one of the two songs in that chapter is actually devoted to his opponent, Grover Cleveland ("Let's Put it Over, With Grover").
     

Share This Page