Music industry wants those that share lyrics on the Net jailed (1 Viewer)

[GlennH]

In my opinion, copyright protection on lyrics is proper and important to prevent other songwriters or artists from stealing them and using them again without permission.

As for the simple posting of the lyrics as information, it should not be protected, unless somebody is actually selling lyrics for profit. It's a resource so that people can figure out what that line is, or search to determine the identity of a song they've heard. In my opinion, that can only serve to benefit the artists and labels. The more time people spend investigating the songs the more likely they are to buy them.

A fan website with lyrics may include advertising or accept donations to support the expenses of the website. To me, that would not qualify as selling the lyrics themselves. They are simply providing a service. Labels that try to shut this down or punish websites are just greedy, and more than a little stupid. (Kind of like how the MPAA howled that the VCR would be the end of the movie industry. Yeah, right.)

Ideally, such amateur lyric websites should not be necessary at all, because the music industry itself should provide it for free on an "official" website/database. How great would it be for all music fans to be able to search on any song title or on lines from a song, to accurately determine what the lyrics are or what the song title is? It could identify exactly what album(s) a song is on, link to the artists official websites and/or retailers. This would undoubtedly lead to more sales. Creating and maintaining such a database sounds like a valuable use of the excessive prices being charged for CDs.

(Of course, this is just how I think things should be; I realize that in reality they legally are not.)

 

[Jay_B!]

I agree about that, not that many CD's have lyrics in it.

For example, I bought Madonna's latest CD, no lyrics to be found in the booklet... I had to go to Google to figure out what the hell she keeps singing over and over again in "Future Lovers" ("in the evidence of its brilliance"), Madonna got my money off the album and yet I still had to go online to find out the lyrics.

 

[Nathan A]

I wish bands would sell their lyrics in book form. I'd pay upwards of around $10-15 for a CD's lyrics. That's right- as much as the CD costs. Since I hate when bands don't put the lyrics in the CD liner, this is the perfect solution. Everyone wins. The bands. The record companies. The fans especially. Just like how you can't wait for your favorite band to put out another CD so you can buy it, now you'd also be able to buy lyric books.

So you see, their argument about not wanting lyrics online is completely valid. If you are against it then you are against the well-being of these bands whose music you claim to love so much.

And if you're trying to find out what song was on the radio or the name of that song you remember from 10-15 or more years ago; maybe they could have a fee based online search tool for you to find it. Then you could pay, say, $2-3 to find out what the song is, then another $15 for the CD, then another $10 for the lyric book. Everyone wins!

 

[Rachael B]

Nathan, you sound like an exec from a big 4 label....

 

[Jay_B!]

sounds like it, I seriously hope he is being sarcastic. It is that sort of greed that led to consumers stealing music in the first place.

 

[Nathan A]

Too true, Rachael. This is really ridiculous. I mean, how much are people really willing to pay for music? Aside from my favorite bands' new releases, I won't pay full price for music. I think it's overpriced (especially at places like Virgin or Tower- $19 for a CD? C'mon). I just wait for Circuit City's 2 or 3 times a year sale (all CDs $10) for other albums. Other times I have to buy from a discount online retailer since CC doesn't carry the artist.

Would anyone really pay $33 for the CD in that situation? I hope not. Metallica saw a big backlash from fans from the Napster case; what would the fans say if they now charged for lyrics? While I don't see bands like Rush or Dream Theater charging for it, I can see the labels of top 40 bands trying to get away with it. I just hope people wouldn't buy into it. I wouldn't pay a dime for lyrics. I'd express my extreme disappointment if any of the bands I care to buy music from tried to sell me lyrics, and I'd stop buying their music. That's LOST revenue for the record companies (from me at least, and hopefully from many other would-be upset listeners).

 

[Joseph S]

This line of reasoning never does seem to convince me in any sort of situation. The RIAA needs to work on the products produced and their value, not suing their customers or soon-to-be ex-customers.

 

[Rachael B]

Got 'cha Nathan! Personally I prefer the lyrics on instrumental pieces...

 

[Will_B]

I've seen something like this in kiosks in some record stores -- I don't know what company runs it, but it has most pop/rock lyrics in searchable form. I've seen it at Newbury Comics for example.

It could NOT be run by the record labels, because when an artist leaves a label, or when a label leaves an artist, the labels often exact revenge by removing all information about the artist from its website. I doubt they'd start supporting musicians when their only interest is in supporting the profits the artists bring them.

 

[Aaron Silverman]

Aye, yourself! 99.99% of pop/ rock lyrics are just crappy poetry to begin with.

 

[Dick Knisely]

Gee and the industry wonders why CD sales are down. Let's come up with a scheme to make it cost more -- yeah, that will discourage the pirates. Positively brilliant. :rolleyes

Whew... I fell so much better now.

 

[MarkHastings]

Just don't make any money off the performance of that song

 

[Carlo_M]

I know you're jesting Mark, but I believe when you perform live you can do covers without worry, even if you've charged for the performance.

I just can't make a recording and sell that...

 

[MarkHastings]

Here in CT, some group (I forget the organization) went around to several bars, fining the owners for having bands that did cover songs. They claimed that the bars had to pay royalties (or something like that) if they were allowed to make money from the people that came to listen to the bands.

 

[Carlo_M]

I am not sure if Cover Bands (i.e. bands that are making a living doing only covers, especially covers of only one band) are included, but I have several musician friends (who earn their living that way, are in "the industry", not just casual coffeeshop musicians) who have told me that you can pretty much cover any song live without worrying about royalties. Of course, these guys usually play 15-20 song sets, and only 1-2 of them might be covers, the rest are original compositions.

Just my own anecdotal experience.

 

[Rachael B]

In the past, the RIAA has sent investigators around around to bars and clubs looking for folks playing copy-righted music without keeping a log and paying royalties...that also included cover bands. They used to show up in Knoxville every 3-4 years. I haven't heard of 'em being here for a number of years though. I think they've given up that quest since they have bigger fish to fry these days...?

 

[MarkHastings]

It's like speeding. You can go 5 mph over the speed limit without getting a ticket, but it's still illegal. We just tend to not think it's illegal because the cops only go after the ones going 20 mph over and leave the 5 mph (over the limit) alone.

Unenforced doesn't mean it's legal.

 

[Jeff Ulmer]

If you are generating any kind of revenue from the service you are providing, it is a commercial use, it doesn't matter if the money is used for site overhead or buying your pet monkey bananas. As i said earlier, all that is required to legitimately distribute lyrics (or any other copyrighted work) is permission, which does not in itself require payment of any kind.

As for records not including lyrics, there are many possible explanantions. I'm sure a number of artists prefer not to include lyrics as they really have nothing useful to say anayway. Others may not have permission if they are using third party writers. My own philosophy is that the fans deserve to get the lyrics with the CD, and they can also read them online. Although I can recognise the legalities of the distribution, it doesn't necessarily mean I agree with them.

One perfectly legitimate reason for not allowing the distribution of lyrics would be if they are not accurate, which of course could be prevented if an official version were used as a source, but I've also seen a number of import CDs where someone whose native language wasn't the one being sung, had completely messed up the words, and the meaning follows.

 

[Rachael B]

Jeff, you're right, it was BMI & ASCAP that sent the investigators. They did, indeed, used to send them. I got questioned by one of them, once upon a time in the 80's.

 

[ElevSkyMovie]

Don't forget SESAC!