"Music Clearance Hell" : Time for us to group together :) (1 Viewer)

[Matt.Koz]

Curious to see how much music is intact on the coming SCTV releases. In addition to the musical guests, they liberally sprinkled alot of popular (and not-so-popular) tunes into the show - and it was 90 minutes!

 

[Glenn Overholt]

Jeff, and others. (I was just drinking Coke, BTW). I didn't explain it fully, but with the 3Mil, that helps.

Lets say that it will cost another 100k to mfg and distribute them. You charge just over that so that your profit will be minimal. When you get your money from the stores you pay back the 3mil and the 100k, leaving you with practically nothing.

The first suit is going to be way over that, so you're screwed from the get-go. Ok, the record companies are, really.

Also, since the disks are already in the customer's hands before the record companies find out, how can they destroy them? I wouldn't let my set go. (They're going to have to pry them from my cold, dead hands)!

Bankruptcy is the only way out, but the old CEO is practically broke anyway, and he is terminal.

You could just tell whoever you get the film from that you are going to replace all of the copyrighted music. I'll laugh again here. Ok, so he lied - in a contract - how much can they get?

In the end, the record copanies will get screwed twice. Once for not getting any royalties off of the WKRP set, and again when it hits the news and everybody finds out how much they want for a 30 second clip of a song!

Glenn

 

[Peter Apruzzese]

Sure thing - just steal from the rightful owners.

Also, your idea is called "fraud" and they do put people in jail for just that sort of thing.

 

[Martin Fontaine]

That brings back something that's been bugging me for 3 years now.

In the Movie Magnolia (PT Anderson), there are several Aimee Mann songs. I swear I remember hearing each song of the soundtrack in the movie itself in theater. But on DVD, several of them are missing.

Was my memory altered by listening to the soundtrack a lot between seeing it theatrically and buying the DVD or were there in fact songs removed on the DVD release?

 

[Glenn Overholt]

Peter, I think everyone knew that it was fraud from the get-go, and I know that the groups should receive something, and that WKRP is an extreme example because of the number of songs in it, but shouldn't there be a limit of some kind?

$30k for 30 seconds is way out there. At that rate, they would run about a million dollars an episode.

A bit much, no?

I provided that example because prosecute as they might, they aren't going to get anything from an old man that hasn't got long to live.

And yes, they are going to be really pissed, but $1M each only tels me one thing - that there is just too much greed. As it stands right now, they won't get one thin dime - so which is better, no money at all or a sum that is reasonable?

Glenn

 

[Peter Apruzzese]

but shouldn't there be a limit of some kind?

No. It should be up to the rights holders to determine what is a reasonable sum. If that means that you won't get WKRP (or some other show/movie) on DVD, so be it.

 

[Damin J Toell]

that there is just too much greed.

Like all those people who demand everything for free?

DJ

 

[Dan Rudolph]

Also, your idea is called "fraud" and they do put people in jail for just that sort of thing

I think Glenn going to jail is a small price to pay for me getting WKRP on DVD.

 

[Aaron Reynolds]

In the Movie Magnolia (PT Anderson), there are several Aimee Mann songs. I swear I remember hearing each song of the soundtrack in the movie itself in theater. But on DVD, several of them are missing.

I only ever saw the film in the theatre. Which songs do you think are missing from the DVD? I'll try to remember where they were in the film.

I doubt they'd be missing from the DVD, based on PT Anderson's strong relationship with Aimee Mann, plus the whole saga of the Bachelor Number Two album (killed by Interscope and sort of held hostage, and PT came to the rescue when he bought some of them for Magnolia, allowing Aimee Mann to buy the album from Interscope and self-release it).

 

[Jeff Kleist]

So Glen, you're suggesting they shutter 20th Century Fox just so you can have WKRP on DVD...............

You see, beyond your costs, there is something called DAMAGES. Which will likely run into the millions.

What you need to do is find someone willing to donate the $3 million bucks, or start getting those PayPal dollars going. I'm sure that if you can come up with the scratch, Fox would be MORE than happy to get them out

 

[Glenn Overholt]

Paypal bucks - this I've got to see! Originally, I had no idea that it would run $3M, but the basic idea was to get them out and not pay anyone for the music.

I didn't want to get 20th C. Fox into this. Other studios turn over movies and series to another company to produce them, like with MSCL.

I am sure the damages would run into the millions, if not the billions, but who would they collect it from? No one would have any money left over to pay anything.

Even if you figured in a 5% net profit, you could just turn the whole thing over to a bankruptcy attorney and just say, when you run out of money, stop!

Maybe we can get Bill Gates to loan it out for a year! You'd have to figure in the profit for the loaner too, but the exact figures are really not necessay.

I was reminded earlier today about that Aesop's fable - The Fox and the Grapes, and I think that applies here. I wish they'd figure out that requesting a smaller amount would get them money that they are not getting now.

Glenn

 

[Damin J Toell]

I am sure the damages would run into the millions, if not the billions, but who would they collect it from? No one would have any money left over to pay anything.

They would collect from 20th Century Fox, who would be vicariously liable for your copyright infringement by licensing the episodes to you for the purposes of infringing upon the copyrights of the music. Which is why you'd never get the episodes from Fox in the first place.

DJ

 

[Glenn Overholt]

Why in the world would Fox know that the DVD's were going to infringe on the music rights? A contract would be signed that the original music would not be used.

I'm not kicking up a fuss about about this, but just wondering if it could be done. I am sure that Fox's contract would prevent them from being libel for another company's work. (They'd have to be idiots not to, especially in this day and age).

Glenn

 

[Damin J Toell]

I'm not kicking up a fuss about about this, but just wondering if it could be done. I am sure that Fox's contract would prevent them from being libel for another company's work. (They'd have to be idiots not to, especially in this day and age).

The best Fox could do is have a clause in the contract that your company will reimburse them in the case of an infringement on your part. Since you're already planning that this company will be immediately bankrupt, this obviously of no use to Fox, since they will be unable to recover anything from your company. They will instead remain wholly liable to the music rights holders. Such a clause would only be of any value to them if you were actually a real company with real assets on which they could rely. Which, of course, is why they'd never license the episodes to you in the first place.

A clause in the contract which states that Fox is not liable for your company's actions will be useless to prevent suit by the music rights holders and will be useless to prevent a finding of vicarious or contributory liability if facts are found to support those claims. You can't make a contract with someone that says that an uninvolved third party isn't allowed to sue you. That would be kind of silly. The right to sue and recover for copyright infringement cannot be extinguished by a contract in which the suing party is not involved.

DJ

 

[Brian McHale]

Am I the only one here who thinks that we should quit discussing an illegal and ludicrous scheme to release a TV show on DVD without paying music licensing fees? It seems to me that this thread was started to try to find some way to solve the problem. This obviously fraudulent scheme is nothing more than an academic exercise anyway, since Fox would NEVER let this happen.

I'll restate my thoughts on this matter. I don't think this problem will ever get fixed unless influential members of the music industry WANT to make it happen and are willing to find a way to change the entire compensation/licensing model.

 

[TheLongshot]

I don't think this problem will ever get fixed unless influential members of the music industry WANT to make it happen and are willing to find a way to change the entire compensation/licensing model.

And I don't think that will happen, since there isn't a huge benefit in them doing that. I think in a lot of cases of older TV shows, you're just screwed.

Jason

 

[Brian McHale]

And I don't think that will happen, since there isn't a huge benefit in them doing that. I think in a lot of cases of older TV shows, you're just screwed.

You're probably right, but my thought is that maybe some influential musicians who are DVD geeks might WANT this to happen and will take the bull by the horns. If they don't, we probably are screwed.

 

[Jonathan_E]

Does anyone know if the Smallville music of season 1 was replaced for the dvd release?

Edit: Sorry for the repeat question, I posted before I finished reading all the posts.

I think a lot of people here are forgetting that typically, the show producers don't go to the artists, they have to go through the record labels, and as far as they're concerned, the future means nothing to them. If they can't have money right here and now for the liscense, then it's not worth their time. This is why using the logic that having a song in a tv-show will help to boost sales of a cd doesn't work with them. And I don't think I have to mention that the artist typically gets royally screwed over by the record labels as well.

-Jonathan

 

[Glenn Overholt]

Thank you Damin, that clears it up for me. Still, too bad though.

I am going to have to agree that until some major artists realize what the problem is with this and fix this from within their own system, nothing will happen.

New question - If songs are replaced, do the DVD's have to mention it? Since the 'new' music is not what was originally intended, it would be on par with the OAR/P&S notice that we see before movies on TV, no?

Glenn

 

[JohnAP]

For a show I really want to own, like the afore mentioned Freaks and Geeks, I'd much rather pay another 20 or 30 bucks and have the programs intact than have something less than what originally aired. That's the big question when preparing some of these shows for dvd release though. Would the same people who paid 60 dollars for Felicity have paid 80? 100? How much more would fans of a series that's not going to sell a million units pay to have the music intact? What percentage of the people who purchase a show on dvd are more casual fans who won't notice music changes?

It's hard to come up with answers to these questions. If a series has a strong fanbase that will buy it no matter what as long as the price isn't completely ridiculous, then I think its better to try and secure the music rights, even if it means the set will cost a little more. There are shows I love that I would pay more for, but there are others that I'd like to own, but would only buy if they were economically priced. Figuring out which type of fans are in the majority for a release with music clearance issues is going to be key in deciding whether a studio ponies up the dough for the original music.