"Music Clearance Hell" : Time for us to group together :) (1 Viewer)

[Craig: Mclaren]

I read on tvshowsondvd.com that another US TV show "Felicity" has had its music replaced. With this being a common problem isn't it about time the DVD buying public group together and show our numbers. I'm not sure who we would direct a massive letter or petition at (various music companies etc) but I think we need to get involved. The only problem here is greed and a lack of good deal making between the TV and music industries. Theres money to be made for both parties so its about time they started realizing this and worked together. Surely a petition with 20,000 plus signature's would be a good start?

 

[Jeff Kleist]

The only problem here is greed and a lack of good deal making between the TV and music industries. Theres money to be made for both parties so its about time they started realizing this and worked together. Surely a petition with 20,000 plus signature's would be a good start?

No, they're still going to go "We want our money for the music" and the Studios are still going to go "You want how much?" and it's only going to get worse as the music companies keep jacking their prices

 

[John Watson]

Yeah, a big issue with me too.

I especially hate when a cd for a movie or a program doesn't contain all the songs, or use the same sequence, as the source movie or TV program.

Its also a major drag that many films available on VHS are not available on DVD

I think if I was a producer, I would start with saying I want the result to be downstream accessible, timewise. (To anticipate new media.)

But the world is becoming vastly more complicated, and the legal sharks are always circling, and in greater numbers, so I'm not optimistic. :frowning:

 

[Arnie G]

I have the Felicity Season 2 but I haven't watched it yet. I would rather have the set with original music if possible. If not, I would still buy it as opposed to not being able to buy it at all, or at a ridiculous price.

This problem will probably be addressed with future TV show productions.

 

[Rick P]

I have an unhappy feeling that this is what has held up the "Quantum Leap" releases...

 

[Jeff Kleist]

No it's not Rick. Every single show Universal announced, including Quantum Leap has been delayed, probably until after the company has been sold. This includes Sliders, which to my knowlege contains no music not written for the show

 

[Rick P]

Well, Leap did tend to make use of 'topical' music... even if not recorded by the original artists (I shutter to think about the Elvis episode... not to mention Sam singing "Imagine"...) not as costly, but still....

Then again, waiting till the company is sold may not be a good thing either.... between the disorganization of a new organization, the new owners could be 'DVD UnFriendly', it may take till AFTER Sam's lifetime till we see them.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

I seriously doubt that they will be DVD UnFriendly, given that it's A- The cornerstone of Universal's business B-The fastest adopted consumer product of all time C-The first seasons are probably already finished or close to it.

 

[Rick P]

Jeff...

I trust you are correct, but if 'C'.. then why not get'em out there.. it would increase the value of the company with an (additional) well selling product, yes???

Then again, I agree with 'A' and 'B'... but what about 'D'??

D = dammable DUEL debacle.

 

[Peter Kline]

There's plenty of blame to go around, particularly with the production companies who don't negotiate for the rights for home video. They do that in the beginning to save money. If the series is a hit and they then later seek home video rights they have to pay the piper. When a theatrical movie is made nowadays, all rights in perpetuity are usually included for video, syndication and any other format which may come along. Beside licensing a particular song from a record label, the films producer must pay sync rights for the song copyright.

I worked for a company that supplied a 30 second bit of music for a major theatrical release. They paid over $16,000. for the snipet. The deal they made gave them all rights as I stated above.

 

[Dane Marvin]

Isn't an excellent show like The Wonder Years basically banished to Music Clearance Hell?

 

[Brian McHale]

I just finished putting my opinion in on a Miami Vice thread over at DVD Talk and I run into this thread. Instead of tyring to come up with a reply that is worded specifically for this thread, I thought I'd just copy/paste my htoughts from that thread here.


I really think it's unfair to blame any one single party here.

The original producers of the show had no way to foresee that they should have included home video rights for the music.

The studio would be more than willing to secure the music rights now, but will only do it if there's a way for them to make money off the release. They are not in business because they make their customers happy while they lose money.

And it's not really fair to blame the music industry either. It seems like everyone assumes that it's just a handful of musicians who want a bunch of money, or it's the record labels trying to milk this for all it's worth. While that certainly could be part of the equation, it's much more likely that it's purely a numbers game. A single song probably has dozens of people that have to be negotiated with. You don't just go to Phil Collins and negotiate his cut. You also have to go to the producer, the engineer, each musician who played on it, the songwriters, etc. Every one of these has to sign on board. Even if most of them were willing to agree to a fraction of their normal cut, simply getting them all to sign up would be a monumental task. Heck, even if they all agreed to take NOTHING, the cost of getting every single person involved to sign off would probably still be huge. And it's not reasonable to assume that they'll sign up for free.

So, how do we get shows like Miami Vice and WKRP on DVD? The short answer is: we don't. IMO, the only way we'll ever see it is if a grassroots effort was started by a group of influential musicians who wanted to break the ice on this. Some new working model would have to be created to allow this to happen.

Let's pretend that Bob Seger is a fan of WKRP. He could possibly get together with the studio and say "I'd like to be able to get WKRP on DVD. Some of my music is in the show. What can I do to help this come about?"

Unless something revolutionary occurs, it's just not going to happen.

 

[Aaron Reynolds]

I read on tvshowsondvd.com that another US TV show "Felicity" has had its music replaced.

On the season one set, JJ Abrams and Matt Reeves talk about it on the commentary. They said that they could only afford the music for the first and last episodes of the season, and the rest was replaced.

At least they tried. The replacements all work well, and in a few cases throughout the season they've obviously not changed the music (Noel in his room singing along to R.E.M.'s Everybody Hurts, for example). I would never have known had I not listened to the commentary.

 

[Glenn Overholt]

I still wonder what percentage of the actual musicians know that this is a problem. (I think that the agents are the real blood-sucking money grabbers).

Also, if we did mount a campaign, I have a feeling that the RIAA would figure out a way to stop it, but the publicity would be nice, nevertheless.

Glenn

 

[Jeff Kleist]

Want to mount something?

Fine, start setting up some PayPal accounts, and collect the hundreds of thousands if not millions that will be needed to clear the material

In some cases that won't help anyway, but worth a shot

 

[Mark Zimmer]

What might work would be some kind of compulsory licensing arrangement such as is already in place for the broadcast industry. That would help get a lot of things out of rights hell, and is probably the only chance of ever getting stuff like Miami Vice or WKRP. The question is, what's in it for the RIAA? Well, it guarantees money being generated on these works, which rights hell doesn't, for one thing. Would it be enough, I can't know, but it's something that could be tossed out. Since the studios seem to control Congress anyway, why not give it a shot?

 

[Dennis Nicholls]

Isn't music clearance rights the problem with getting The President's Analyst on DVD?

 

[Chad R]

It's not money grubbing agents, or musicians, or studio heads. It's simple economics. You can't have something for nothing. When X amount of dollars is charged for a song's use in a show or movie, it's distributed to the band, producer, label, lawyers, agents, managers, secretaries, assistants, receptionists, janitors, etc. There are a lot of little people counting on a paycheck at the end of the week that these payments ensure on both sides of the equation. Sure, the heads of teh studio or label aren't worrying about milk in the fridge this week, but there are hundreds of people that are--and the studio and label is responsible for them as well.

The studio will do its best to get these things out to make money for all involved. But if paying th royalties to these songs will prevent a profit, then they will forgo that loss to ensure the financial solvency of their company, and the many people who work for them.

 

[Ruz-El]

I fear that a petition would probably back fire in this case, as showing demand for the original music would give the people holding the rights to said music more leverage in their demands agains the studios (at least if I was the money grubbing music rights hold it would.):frowning: , allowing them to demand more money and making it less econimaically feasable to release a series on DVD.

How did columbia House get the rights to do Miami Vice on VHS? I though that you could subscribe to get them, similar to their Monkees and Twighlight Zones?

 

[Mark E J]

It's not money grubbing agents, or musicians, or studio heads. It's simple economics. You can't have something for nothing. When X amount of dollars is charged for a song's use in a show or movie, it's distributed to the band, producer, label, lawyers, agents, managers, secretaries, assistants, receptionists, janitors, etc. There are a lot of little people counting on a paycheck at the end of the week that these payments ensure on both sides of the equation. Sure, the heads of teh studio or label aren't worrying about milk in the fridge this week, but there are hundreds of people that are--and the studio and label is responsible for them as well.

I'm sorry but this argument is ludicrous. First of all the janitor isn't going to see a dime of any of this believe me. Second the producers of a show like Miami Vice aren't trying to get something for nothing. They ALREADY PAID for the music. The music was used in the show during it's original run, reruns, and syndication. Now when they want to present the SAME show with the SAME music on home video the people who own the copyright of the music (which often is NOT the artist who created the music) simply want to be paid again for what they already sold. This is simply a case of someone wanting a second piece of the pie.

And if this is all about helping the "little people" I guess the jokes on them because Miami Vice will not be released on home video and Felicity had it's music changed so they still won't have any milk in the fridge.