Multi-Region Newbie question - can B&M legally sell multi-region player (1 Viewer)

[Jeff Kleist]

Why Argus and CH are making such a big deal about this player *not* being region free is beyond me,

Because making a region-free player is a violation of their license to make DVD players

 

[Ronn.W]

Because making a region-free player is a violation of their license to make DVD players

Of course it is, the same with every other manufacturer selling in the US. They are the only ones who seem to actively campaign that theirs don't. That's what I meant.

 

[Damin J Toell]

Of course it is, the same with every other manufacturer selling in the US. They are the only ones who seem to actively campaign that there's don't. That's what I meant.

They probably make a note of it in order to help forestall the flood of e-mails they get asking "how do I make my player all-region?????". I doubt Sony and Panasonic get as many such e-mails, though I could be wrong.

DJ

 

[Cees Alons]

In my country you can standardly buy region-protected players or region-free versions of the same, in almost any large shop or store. Region-free players are certainly not illegal here.

You pay €20 or so for the "modified" version (the official word is, that manufacturers, by contract, cannot make region-free players leave the factory, so the mod has to be applied on the outside).

On some (a very few) players there's a sign "cannot be modified".

Of course, most of our TV-sets and projectors now have no problem at all with NTSC input.

Cees

 

[Peter Kim]

My search for a region-free/multi-region player mirrors what Cees said above...apparently, it's not at all an issue outside of the states.

Prior to my purchase of the Toshiba SD-3900 (excellent region-free + NTSC->PAL), my search led me to Amazon UK. Doing a search for 'multi-region dvd player' produces 45 results:

Multi-region dvd players

Generally, on the very FIRST line of features, it clearly states:

This DVD player has been modified to provide multi-region playback

So, I doubt this is illegal. I find it hard to believe that the largest online retailer in the world is complicit in illegally defeating DCMA.

BTW...apparently Best Buy is clearing out the Toshiba SD-3900 at $80. Great deal.

 

[Damin J Toell]

So, I doubt this is illegal. I find it hard to believe that the largest online retailer in the world is complicit in illegally defeating DCMA.

The DMCA only to the United States, of course. Amazon's UK site need not abide by the DMCA.

DJ

 

[Peter Kim]

Who we are

Amazon.co.uk is the trading name for Amazon.com Int'l Sales, Inc. and Amazon Services Europe SARL. Both companies are subsidiaries of Amazon.com

Case in point...I believe that some drugs illegal in the US are legal in the Netherlands. If Amazon.com's Netherlands operations, a subsidiary of a US company, legally sold hashish in the Netherlands, would they be exempt from US law?

 

[Cees Alons]

Apart from the fact that selling drugs (the ones we're talking about) is illegal here too, except some on doctor's orders, I think indeed that a company has to obey the laws in the country where it is situated and doing its business.

Of course, if other countries are involved in those business, the laws of that country may apply too, e.g. if I buy a DELL PC, they demand of me to make a statement (or else it won't leave the US) about not exporting the PC to certain other countries.

Cees

 

[Peter Kim]

I think indeed that a company has to obey the laws in the country where it is situated and doing its business.

Which is what I thought too, hence interpolating backwards from their actions clearly evident on Amazom UK, Amazon believes it's not doing anything that would jeopardize harmony with US law.

In regards to selling drugs in the Netherlands (I reread my comments - could be misinterpreted...in no way were they meant to denigrate the Netherlands). My failing memory recalls a 60 minutes report where a special area in Amsterdam was established for drug sales. Why, I cannot recall.

But if you're not familar with this, again please chalk it up to my failing memory.

 

[Steve_Ch]

>>BTW...apparently Best Buy is clearing out the Toshiba SD-3900 at $80. Great deal.

 

[Peter Kim]

Steve...it's a very easy remote hack to perform:

Either press [Menu] then [1] then [play], or press [Top Menu] then [1] then [play]. You'll need to perform this remote hack for each dvd, but it's a 2-second detour to worldwide playability. I've got about 20 non-R1, PAL discs, and they all play.

Check out the following threads for much more comprehensive info and testimonials:

Toshiba SD-3900 thread @ DVD Talk

I was particularly impressed by this comment:

FYI, BestBuy has the 3900 for $79.99 this week, plus, if you wait until thd 28th to buy and have a Rewards card, you get an additional 5000 points when you buy anything over $25.

BTW Steve...I've owned only one other dvd player (for the last 5 years?) - Toshiba SD-3109. While I miss the dual tray capacity, I'm finding the 3900 exceeding all of my expectations.

Best of luck.

 

[Damin J Toell]

Which is what I thought too, hence interpolating backwards from their actions clearly evident on Amazom UK, Amazon believes it's not doing anything that would jeopardize harmony with US law.

That's a huge, and incorrect, interpolation. If anything, the fact that Amazon's UK but not their US site advertises region-free players should indicate much about Amazon's interpretation of US law. Amazon, for example, doesn't follow US copyright law with regard to copyright ownership of films when it sells products in UK (e.g., refusing to sell titles owned by a different company in the UK than in the US). It doesn't follow US tax law when it makes sales in UK. And it doesn't follow the DMCA when it makes sales in the UK. Amazon's subsidiaries follow the laws of their locales.

DJ

 

[Peter Kim]

Forgot to add...upon clearing the region restriction, they'll still be a region nag message. Clearing it only requires a double press of the [display] button.

Hmmm...think I'll watch either 24 Hour Party People of L'appartemente tonight.

 

[Peter Kim]

Well, we'll agree to disagree, Damin. Unless you're a lawyer or someone with expertise in this field of litigation, I think the only thing that's certain is the ambiguity of DCMA and its legal standing. Any assertions from laymen don't carry much weight.

I seem to recall Canon or HP (?) wanting to sue a third-party ink supplier for their printers on the grounds of DCMA...believe this lawsuit died. Much like the suit against FatWallet.com which won outright when going against DCMA.

 

[Damin J Toell]

I seem to recall Canon or HP (?) wanting to sue a third-party ink supplier for their printers on the grounds of DCMA...believe this lawsuit died. Much like the suit against FatWalletl.com which won outright when going against DCMA.

Lots of people bring lots of cases under lots of laws and lose. So what? Those cases you mention bear no resemblance to this discussion. None of it means either that Amazon UK must follow US law or that the DMCA doesn't apply to the circumvention of region coding.

DJ

 

[Peter Kim]

I am both.

Ahhh, now I see the root of the belligerent and ascerbic tone in all of your posts. I sensed LLB in there somewhere.

With regards to defeating technologies wording in the DCMA...would the DCMA have any legal authority to pursue me as a unlawful combatant (sorry, I don't know the legalese) since I apply a remote control hack to my Toshiba in order to play non-R1 discs?

Defer to your expertise here.

 

[Damin J Toell]

With regards to defeating technologies wording in the DCMA...would the DCMA have any legal authority to pursue me as a unlawful combatant (sorry, I don't know the legalese) since I apply a remote control hack to my Toshiba in order to play non-R1 discs?

If you made your player able to circumvent the region coding scheme, you would be in violation of the anti-circumvention provisions of the DMCA.

DJ

 

[Peter Kim]

Given your vocation, I meant it as a compliment.

Anyway, I guess, to the proponents of DCMA..come and get me. What I don't understand is that it's perfectly legal to buy a R2/PAL capable player in Europe and carry it back with you to the States (albeit quite a bit more expensive option to play worldwide), yet a non-invasive remote hack could theoretically land me in court, if not jail?


Psss....Damin, if I'm in a jam, care to do some pro bono?

 

[Damin J Toell]

Psss....Damin, if I'm in a jam, care to do some pro bono?

When I can afford to do it, sure.

DJ

 

[Cees Alons]

In regards to selling drugs in the Netherlands .... My failing memory recalls a 60 minutes report where a special area in Amsterdam was established for drug sales.

I didn't mean to imply that you wouldn't be able to find (and buy) many types of drugs rather easily. Also, there's a bigger distinction here between soft- and harddrugs. (There are also certain addicts-programs where replacement drugs are supplied to clients, but that's not what we're discussing here, of course).

You probably read about the "coffee shops" (originally all coffee shops were places where one bought a cup of coffee, or so), now there are many coffee shops with a well-known green leaf on the outside...

Cees