Multi Level Marketing. (Give me your money) (1 Viewer)

[ThomasC]

are melaleuca (sp?) and nu skin companies involved in mlm? i'm not exactly clear on what mlm is, but i think i get the general gist of it...

their products weren't especially special (my mom got involved in those two companies), and now that i think of it, most/all of their products seemed pretty generic.

 

[MickeS]

MLM works IF it is a product that you can sell. You HAVE to like the product, you HAVE to be a good salesperson, and you HAVE to make sure that the organisation is based on SALES not only on recruiting. You won't get rich off the sales, but you can make a living off of it, if you're a good salesperson. It's not necessarily a pyramid scheme, but the "get rich quick" marketing aspect of many MLM organisations is very deceiving.

/Mike

 

[Gregg Shiu]

As an independent representative in a network-marketing company (No, I won't devulge the name as I'm not tryin to recruit any of you people [sheesh]), I can say that honestly it will change your life. Whether for better or worse is honestly up to the individual and the given surroundings. There's always ups and downs, like any other business. Anyone who's gotten burned or feels scammed, my heart goes out to you. The sad fact is a lot of people like to say stuff about something before they even know about it. Comments reffering to Amway and other companies like the bubonic plague can pretty much show the prejudices. I think that the government woulda stopped Amway from buying the Orlando Magic if it were a scam. Anyways, the point I think I'm trying to get across is not promoting or bashing MLM's, just tryin to moderate the ignorance here. It's important that someone study up before getting involved in any industry, or business, etc. Go out there and read the articles and do your homework before you just jump into something blatantly. That's all. If you have any questions about network marketing, be it my views or general stuff, I'd be glad to answer them.
-ciao

 

[BrianB]

Im not sure fi we're talking about the same PRIMERICA, as in PRIMERICA FINANCIAL SERVICES (Part of Citigroup, that thing), but my dad works for them, and thats what he does for a living. So you're saying its another MLM scam??? That aint good

A good friend of mine almost signed up with Primerica recently & I did some digging about as the deal sounded suspicious to me. First off, he had to pay an 'application fee' to join (what jobs CHARGE you to work for them?). He was told he would receive that fee back once he'd signed up x people to Primerica. After some digging (google is your friend!), it seemed that to make money from the scheme, he'd have to recruit a bunch of other people to Primerica & rely on THEM doing the same thing - classic MLM practices.

I was suprised how little training people seemed to receive before they were "financial analyst" with Primerica.

Primerica are legal - it's not a classic pyramid scheme. People just tend to have issues with the "pushiness" of a lot of their agents & of the cost of their services.

Oh, my mate ended up not joining.

 

[AjayM]

MLM works IF it is a product that you can sell. You HAVE to like the product, you HAVE to be a good salesperson, and you HAVE to make sure that the organisation is based on SALES not only on recruiting. You won't get rich off the sales, but you can make a living off of it, if you're a good salesperson. It's not necessarily a pyramid scheme, but the "get rich quick" marketing aspect of many MLM organisations is very deceiving.

I dunno, I did Amway for a couple of months many years ago and the whole work 8-12 hours a week is a little decieving. Doing research now on the whole thing shows a lot of interesting information. The guys in Amway who are making big money are doing it through sales, they may have a large amount of "recruits", but that isn't where the money is at, it's the selling. I've seen a few stories of people who are making $50-60k a year from these things, the only problem is that their expense's are usually a good $10-15k higher than that (so they are still in the red).

I can see how it can work, but it requires a huge amount of time invested into the program, a fair amount of luck, and if you want to do it quicker than usual...a fair amount of money. Sounds just about what is needed to start your own business the old fashion way and succeed.

Andrew

 

[MickeS]

Exactly, that's what I meant by 'the "get rich quick" marketing aspect of many MLM organisations is very deceiving'. It's sort of like starting your own franchise of McDonalds or something, but the more aggressive MLM selles try and make it seem like it's as simple as buying a lottery ticket.

/Mike

 

[Jack Briggs]

I think I can do that, sir.

A little tidbit:

When researching a spin-control press release for one of the MLMs for whom I was a marketing-department writer, I noted an interesting little factoid: Fewer than three percent of all people who get into MLM schemes are making a livable income, much less getting rich. And the only people who get rich have achieved their wealth not on sales but on recruiting. Their "organizations" tend to be several layers deep. And they comprise but a fraction of a single percent of the people who sell and recruit for MLMs.

 

[AjayM]

Amway in particular (and all the other MLM's are similiar) got around big problems with the FTC by the virtue of their sales channel. Amway (and the others) is just another type of sales channel. Although the MLM members certainly don't spin it that way, they sell it as a way to recruit people...not sell a product, I've never been to an MLM meeting that tried to sell me anything, they just told me all about how if I get X amount of people recruited my financial worries would be over and I'd be driving a new Roll's down to my new Fedship mega-yacht on my way to Monte Carlo to have a beer.

It's important that someone study up before getting involved in any industry, or business, etc. Go out there and read the articles and do your homework before you just jump into something blatantly.

Amway specific...
http://www.getfacts.com/amway/thebusiness/index.html
http://www.angelfire.com/ky/xamway/index.html
http://amquix.50megs.com/amway.html
Now the truth is probably somewhere in the middle of the extreme's (the websites and what a recruiter will tell you), but it's certainly not all glory and sunshine. And I bet with a little time finding out info on all of the various MLM's shouldn't be to hard...
Andrew

 

[Leila Dougan]

Is Excel one of these type of companies? A few years ago a co-worker gave me a VHS tape claiming it contained information about a secret program on how to make tons of money. He told me he was doing great with it and expected to retire within the year. I wondered to myself why he was working a job that paid 25K if he was making so much money. But anyway, he invited me to an "information session" the following week, but since I found him rather intimidating I managed to "forget" about it. He tried several more times to get me to go but then he got fired so I never heard from him again. I didn't own a VCR (DVD only for me) so I never watched the video to know what it was about. Just seemed to fishy to me so I never bothered.

 

[Jack Briggs]

Yes, Leila, Excel is one of those outfits. There's also one called E-Excel, started by the sister of Sunrider International's founder, Tei Fu Chen. (I wrote for Sunrider for two and a half years, and I did the same thing for Herbalife for more than six.)

The key thing: Your colleague was asking you to attend an "information meeting" without telling you anything about it. Herbalife distributors use the same tricks in their "lead-generation" routines. Somebody will tell you, "Hey, I know how you can make great money by working at home and offering this great 'business opportunity' to others just like yourself!"

They do their "lead-generation" pitch at that meeting, going for almost the entire session before even telling you the company's name. The "lead-generation" "literature" (which I had to edit) consists of rah-rah sales pitches about various and sundry people who lifted themselves out of Bangladesh-like poverty and went on to a life of redolent splendor in Beverly Hills.

If you value your money, avoid MLM distributors and their gee-golly-wiz, pie-in-the-sky claims.

 

[Leila Dougan]

Thanks, Jack, for the confirmation. My feeling is that if the opportunity were so great, EVERYONE would be doing it. There wouldn't be anything so secretive about it. I mean, everyone knows that if you want a chance to get effortless money, you buy lottery tickets and take your chances. Or, if you want to work from home you open your own legit home business (childcare, ebay selling, etc).

 

[Paul Spurgeon]

I just thought I'd add my .02 about the "cutlery scam" that was mentioned. If this is about the direct-marketing company called Cutco, they are totally legit. I worked for them two summers ago and made a fair bit of money before my quiet demeanor made it near-impossible to talk to complete strangers.

They do sell a very high quality product for premium prices; I found people who had owned Cutco knives for >20 years and still used them and raved about them (and bought more). I will admit, their employment advertising does seem to be a little misleading, but if you are an outgoing person who can handle constantly working at a feverish pace for an entire summer, you can easily make $10,000 or more.

 

[AjayM]

20 years and still used them and raved about them (and bought more). I will admit, their employment advertising does seem to be a little misleading, but if you are an outgoing person who can handle constantly working at a feverish pace for an entire summer, you can easily make $10,000 or more.

I found the same thing with Amway, most of the products were pretty/very good, but at ridiculous prices (hell I was even selling laundy detergent to people not in the cult..errr I mean business). And the last part of your statement is what they try and get you on, although they say you can do it with just a few hours a week. And I'd bet for most people with that level personality making $10k over 3 months wouldn't be to much of a stretch (go sells cars)...

Andrew

 

[Paul Spurgeon]

I guess I'm not going to win if I try to defend Cutco, but I'm still going to try. Everyone who actually tried to achieve their best at that company was repaid accordingly. In addition, everyone I visited who had ever bought a Cutco product was happy to have me come over and do my pitch just to see what sort of new things I was selling. The reason I continued selling for as long as I did was because I felt like I was doing people a favor by showing them my product. If for one second I had felt otherwise, I would have quit right then.

And as for $10,000 in 3 months, that is a basic level all of the hard workers reach. During push weeks, which happen before the major summer conferences, there are kids making anywhere from $10,000-$30,000... in one week. I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that even a few grand is a very large sum to a high school junior, which is how old many of these kids are.

[/rant] This defense is pretty much entirely off-topic, so this will be all I write.

 

[Steven K]

I know too many people who have fallen victim to these schemes... be it Scamway, Quixtar (amway online), Herbalife, etc...

It's funny how all of the people that I know who are involved in these (or I should say, were involved with them) are folks who are struggling financially. I don't know anyone who is doing even moderately well, who is buying into this.

These are schemes that are designed to target 2 groups of people:
1. those folks who are very, very naive
2. those folks who are in rough financial situations

The folks who fall into both categories are the ones who these "MLMers" really target, and sadly enough, far too many people out there are blinded by the promises of fortune.

 

[John Chow]

Actually, i'm not sure if Cutco really falls into the same category as the real MLMs. I remember sitting through their information session and they didn't really mention recruiting at all. My main problem with it was that they essentially wanted me to hit up people I knew to see if they wanted to buy knives. These people would then buy from me because they either felt obligated to or because they were family friends, etc. If, on the other hand, they had given me a list of people who were interested and wanted me to go do a pitch for, I would not have had a problem.

 

[Aaron Silverman]

I talked to a CutCo rep at a recent home show. . .she offered to come out and do a home demo, but she was just too damn hot!!! (I'd just moved in with my girlfriend. ) I'm sure she sold plenty of knives though (or at least did plenty of demos!).
I know someone who have been involved with an Amway-related MLM network for many years, and it's her primary source of income. I went to a meeting, which played more like a motivational speaker, and looked at a demo CD-ROM. I don't know how the network ("N21" was the name) is related to Amway--I think it's just some guy who has built up an enormous world-wide Amway sellers network.

 

[Leila Dougan]

You're right, Aaron, it can be done. People *can* and do use it as their primary income. However, I think that most people won't even make enough to make it worth their while.

It would be akin to someone selling you, for the low low price of $199, the secrets to striking it rich ala Bill Gates. Ok, for those folks that open their own businesses, many fail, often within the first year. For those that do not fail, most owners make enough to support the family but no where enough to be called "striking it rich". And of course, you have the small percentage, with a lot of hard work and a little bit of luck, ending up making it huge.

The people who are successful with MLMs are a lot of the same people that would be successful with their own business. It's the people who are looking for quick riches or effortless income are the ones that are going to get screwed. And quite frankly, these people probably wouldn't be so good at owning their own business anyway. Nobody is telling these people to go open their own legit business and saying "hey, its easy! You don't have to do anything and the money comes pouring in!". No, because it takes work. It also takes a lot of luck which you may or may not get. There is no magic forumla for success. Maybe it's their desperation that makes them think MLMs are different.

 

[NickSo]

This is my dad in reply to BrianB's comments on primerica:

A) The application fee of $199
- In the Primerica business, we need two licenses: the Mutual Fund license and the Life Insurance license.
- Primerica will provide in-office training for new recruits to write and pass exams. for these licenses
- For any reasons the new recruit wants to quit, he can ask for a refund within 30 days from the application, except that $50 which is for processing both this application and any provincial insurance licensing application is not refundable.
- When new recruits pass these two exams., they can apply for the licenses and do business in Mutual Fund and Life Insurance sales. These are the basic requirements by the provincial government. In British Columbia here, Primerica will pay for this successful new rep. the life insurance license fee of $230 and part of the mutual fund license fee $100, a total of $330 for his commitment in this business.
- The one who recruited this new rep will not get a penny from this $199 application. But he/she has to provide exam. training, field training, sales techniques, personal development, compliance etc. and help this new rep. to get his business, then this recruiter will get his override.
- Other than this application fee of $199, the new recruit does not have to pay any other fee to the recruiter or the company, nor he has to buy any insurance or mutual fund products from Primerica. Is this a Pyramid scheme? More than that, the new recruiter can learn all these basic knowledge required by the provincial government, plus practical trainings etc. Do all these worth $199? If he passes, the $330 license fee will be paid by the company. Is this a rip-off?

B) Recruiting
- In Primerica, you can be a independent rep. without any recruiting. In this case, you will only earn commission from your personal sales. Some people in Primerica do work like this. If they are happy this way, no problem. It is a self-employed business.
- Just like in many other business, if I want some helpers to expand my business, I can recruit and train them. As mentioned in A), in Primerica the recruiter has to give up his time, energy, care and love to train these helpers until they start making sales. It can be from 3 months to 1 year, depending on the commitment of the new recruits.
- To shorten this time frame and let the new recruits see the result, even before getting the license, recruiter may ask new recruiters to give names of their acquaintance so that the recruiter can start helping them to do the field training - for both sales and recruiting presentation. This way, new recruiters can physically see and experience the business process and decide if they are suitable for this business.
- If new recruiters have any doubt about this and do not want to give any names for field training, nobody can force them to do so. But they will lose the chance of getting field training since the recruiter will usually be busy in helping those with name list. Is this logical and reasonable?
- Some offices and some recruiters may be more aggressive so their new recruiters may feel being pushed. Just like some parents who are caring their children too much and pushing them to study hard.

C) Training
- We never called us "Financial Analyst" (which probably refer to stock or investment analyst). Before we do call us "Personal Financial Analyse" which refers to Analysing Client's Personal Financial Situation by using the FNA (Financial Needs Analysis) program.
- Now in B.C., our title is "Representative"
- All reps. have to meet the provincial regulator's basic requirements for their license - so all of them are qualified.
- There are continuing education and practical training offered by the company and office for all the reps.
- At the back of the company, there are highly qualified professionals in all the financial area who give their expertise and support to all offices and reps.
- When you compare this to many other Financial Services Groups/Companies in the market who are offering the similar services: Life Insurance, Investment, then you can decide which one you will have more confidence to do business with.

Summary: here in the whole world, it is very difficult or even impossible to find a perfect company. It is also quite impossible to find a company that is loved by everybody. Primerica which is a Contrarian in the Life Insurance, Investment, Loan business of course has attracted most attacked. As someone in the office once said: "we have little competition, but we have lots of opposition". So those who really want to "dig" into the company and its business, ask to talk to the RVP in any Primerica office, even more than one offices so that you can see the real picture. Ask them to show you the 2001 CBC TV video featuring "Primerica: Canada's Best Business" and the Investment Executive Journal June 2001 featuring "Primerica Leads the pack" and June 2002 "PFSL Scores Top Marks Overall". Don't just see what you see in the internet, see it in real person what third party and other professional say.

 

[MickeS]

"Primerica" is way too similar sounding to "Kramerica" for me to even consider working for them.
/Mike