Muggle Alert: Who's Ready For "HARRY POTTER AND THE ORDER OF THE PHOENIX"? (1 Viewer)

[Yee-Ming]

Phew. Finished it too.

As Andrew said, much, much darker than the first 4 books. It also strikes me that there's a lot of additional material and background to flesh out the wizarding world, none of which was central to the main plot but which just adds a lot of colour, in particular the kids studying for exams.

Some spoilers in the media, IMHO, seem to overplay certain angles. Although he was central to Azkaban, to my mind Black wasn't a "major" character in the sense of those who'd been ever-present since Philosopher's Stone; hence I got it completely wrong :b

And "Harry's got a girlfriend" is also overstated, he manages all of one date with her, fer crying' out loud, that makes her his girlfriend??!?! But having said that the teenage angst of "dating" is brilliantly portrayed. As was all the anxiety about exams. Ah, brings back memories...

And further to Andrew's comment about more of Harry's past being revealed, I thought it quite brilliant that a heretofore insignificant teacher gets elevated to being rather integral to the main central plot of the books, i.e. Voldemort v. Potter.

I will add, those who haven't read all the first 4, don't spoil them for yourselves, make sure you read everything in order. So Dave, go and read all four BEFORE you even touch Phoenix! I just wish I'd had time to re-read them myself, but I couldn't resist jumping straight into 5...

 

[andrew markworthy]

WARNING - the following is for people who have already read The Order of the Phoenix ONLY (it contains MAJOR spoilers):

I think that killing Black off makes perfect sense, since effectively what Voldemort has done is remove the last of Harry's 'family' and thus make him responsible for all of his major emotional losses. Also it's interesting how the book emphasises Harry's anger and impetuousness. What isn't underlined by Rowling, but which most readers will pick up, is that if Harry had stopped to think, he could have saved himself from relatively minor things like being banned from Quidditch, and a major thing in that he could have avoided going to the Ministry to 'rescue' Black if he'd remembered that Sirius had given him the mirror. Stemming from this is another theme from the books as a whole about the need to balance intellect and emotion, openness and mistrustfulness. Dumbledore stresses to Harry on several occasions that it is Harry's emotions and empathy that save him in the same way that it is Voldemort's lack of these that condemn him. Also the way the houses are arranged - Slytherin too much based on mistrust and intellect, Hufflepuff the reverse; Ravenclaw more balanced, but biased towards inellect, Gryffindor biased towards feeling over intellect (hence why Hermione is always something of a fish out of water in Gryffindor, a fact remarked on in the present book). Most of the bad things that are done come from Slytherin of course, but on occasions, Ravenclaw produces the villain of the piece (e.g. in the present book the betrayal of DA). Ultimately, Rowling lets feeling win over unfeeling intellect, but in this book she makes a good argument that this isn't always right if it leads to impetuousness. It's also interesting that Harry's father is shown to be far less than perfect in his mockery of intellect in the shape of Snape.

Also interesting is the prophecy. It explains Dumbledore's enigmatic remark in an earlier book about Prof Trewlany's true prophecy being only the second in her life. We now, of course know what the first is, and in addition why Dumbledore would keep such an awful teacher on the staff of Hogwarts. The prophecy also means that unless Rowling truly intends for evil to triumph in the end, that Harry will be alive at the end of the final book, since the prophecy states that either Harry *or* Voldemort will live.

 

[Tino]

I guess at this point spoilers are fine, but may I suggest prefacing each post with a simple **SPOILER POST** warning instead of blacking it out since many (like me) cannot read spoilerized text due to software incapatability.

I am about 100 pages in and am liking it, however I realize that I have forgotten a lot of the last two books, so I am flirting with the idea of stopping and re reading Azkaban and Goblet and then getting back to Phoenix.

Does anyone know of a site that has good recaps of the first four books as an alternative?

Thanks.

 

[BrianB]

I guess at this point spoilers are fine

I'd rather they were kept blacked out.... Putting a big "preface" on them doesn't help one bit.

 

[Tino]

As I said, some of us, especially those of us with WEBTV, cannot read blacked out text. I see no harm in simply skipping over a spoiler post.

And since this is my thread......

 

[Brian E]

Why not start a new thread for spoilers? That way everyone's happy.

Good book, hope we don't have to wait another three years for the next one.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Just finished it a while ago. Brilliant, brilliant stuff. Being able to take her time on this one was clearly advantageous. The style and characterization that was a bit lacking in Book 4 is here in spades for Book 5. The first four were clearly a learning experience for Rowling, and the result is a deeper, more complex work with every character being fleshed out into three dimensions. My biggest complaint would be that for all it's length it isn't as focused as the previous books, with side notes that intrigue us but don't materialize further. The first third of the book got quite depressing, and the lack of camaraderie between Ron & Hermione with Harry was the source. Also, the general lack of Hagrid had the book lacking the life of the previous installments.
That is my complaint, but the lack of focus is caused by the more involving, complex, and mature source at it's core. I don't think a children's book like this which puts so much faith in it's young readers could get published from an author with less clout than Rowling. We assume that children wouldn't understand about how the government and the authority figures may not be totally right and proper and good, but I feel that children (9 times out of 10) are underestimated. The lack of condescension and the continuously grounded and down-to-earth nature of Rowling's storytelling in face of her own personal fame is the key to Harry's success.
For the first time, Harry comes across as a character in his own right with unique motivations and feelings that seperate him from being Joe Regular as a plot device. This book, finally, has the confidence to realize that it doesn't make us emphasize with him any less. Other characters, previously on the verge of becoming cardboard-cut-out archtypes, are fleshed out and brought into the 3rd demension. Snape is a character with desires and personal tragedies, the outer menacing sneer finally penetrated. Hermione (last time the ultra feminist activist) is brought back into the core of who she was before SPEW, as that is integrated into a core much more fascinating and truer to her spirit. Ginny, finally allowed to express herself, has blossomed into a pleasant yet formidable persona. She has a dynamic with Harry that's quite naturally sibling-like, only without all of the baggage of living as family. Ron remains supremely Ron-like. Sirius is marred by imperfection hitted at in Azkaban but not followed up upon in Goblet. It makes his death more tragic, and his sacrifice more beautiful. This book provides the understanding of his character which makes the poetry of how he went understandable. Molly Weasley and Lupin suffer a bit from being part of such a large cast of characters, but are never the less portrayed with the familiarity of someone who has lived with their characters for many years. Arthur Weasley shines through in spectacular form, his scenes in the hospital delightful. Dumbledore's presence, so painfully distant through the majority of the novel, is presented the best yet in the scene between him and Harry after Sirius dies. He feels responsible towards pretty much the entire wizarding world, bears his burden with a quiet weariness and, knowing the burden, suffers with the anxiety of having to put such a burden on Harry. And... well shit, the books nearly 900 pages long, I could go on like this for hours.
I feel that Hagrid this time around is informed by the gruff portrayal in the movies by Robbie Coltrane, and is somewhat worse for the wear. I miss the honesty of emotion that he's always been presented with before. Here he seemed merely stubborn, without the emotional background to justify it. Still, his brother's simplistic cry for him at the end was touching. Umbridge rings painfully true, as I have known people in my life that are almost exactly the same, the sing-song cheeriness hiding the bitch within.
Overall, it's still sinking in and I feel that's a good thing. It's is without a doubt the most complicated and intellectually involving story yet. The writing is the best yet, but I'm not sure it matches the singular focus and simplicity of Azkaban, which focused it's entirety on the changing relationship between Harry and Black. The price of having such wonderful characters is that it weakens the focus to make them so. This book, more than any of the others in the series, lacks the typical structure of beginning, middle, and end. There was no great mystery to solve, no MacGuffin to set things off and provide a satisfactory conclusion. Much like real life, year five is simply a slice of life. Unfortuneately, it's sort of anticlimactic knowing that it will probably be another 3 or more years until we get to continue on with the action.

Just my initial feelings.

P.S.: Did anyone feel that the ending was some how far more happier than book 4 despite Harry coming out of far more darker subject matter this time around. The surrogate family that Harry's acquired really can make anything seem brighter.

Also, I have a newfound respect for Aunt Petunia. Cheers.

 

[RafaelB]

Hey Tino,

If you go to http://www.harrypotterfacts.com/ they have chapter-by-chapter synopses of the first four books so that way you don't have to re-read to get all the major points. At least that's what I did friday and it was definitely a help.

Rafael

 

[Gabe Oppenheim]

Regarding the "big" prophecy revealed at the end of this book: was anyone else let down? Sure, the information given might be somewhat interesting for Harry, but any (even mildly) astute reader should have figured out by now that, by the end of the series, it's going to come down to Voldemort vs. Harry, especially considering the events of books 1,2,4, (and 5). Even Harry should presumably have figured out by this point that he's going to have to continue to fight Voldemort, as he has to do so all the time. The only surprise would be if this final encounter happened in book 6, not book 7.

The book is otherwise pretty good; it does take FAR too long to get the characters back to Howgarts (is anybody really that interested in lengthy passages about wizardly housecleaning?) and some of the writing seems to be surprisingly sloppy (phrases repeated too close together, etc.). I must say that I was satisfied by the end--perhaps in large part due to the wonderful song stylings of Dolores J. Umbridge, the ultimate over-officious administrator.

 

[Kenneth]

I think the key thing about the prophecy was it highlighted what the other books have been showing, that Harry is almost a kindred spirit to Voldemort. It was interesting to find out that there were two possible choices for the prophecy and that Voldemort choose the one most like himself. It is also interesting that with the things that are starting to come to light about Harry's parents one could summize his behaviour might not be as much of an antithesis to Voldemort, if V had not killed his parents to try and get him. It will be interesting to see what happens in the 6th book. Too bad we have another long wait to see it.

Cheers,

Kenneth

 

[Yee-Ming]

What I thought interesting about the prophecy was that in essence, Voldemort created his own nemesis, Harry. If he'd left well enough alone, Harry would not have had some of the "powers" that he has in relation to Voldemort, making it possibly easier for Voldemort or his minions to have disposed of Harry (and Neville as well, for good measure).

It's also nice to see that a "loser" (to be cruel) like Neville is starting to lose (pun intended) that tag and come into his own, in the way that he was able to now properly cast charms and defend himself (at least until he got smacked in the mouth and couldn't speak properly), and that he is (or was?) the other "potential" counterweight to Voldemort. Goes to show that the peripheral characters aren't being completely forgotten.

 

[JonZ]

Ok, I took a break from the Robert Howard Conan books from the 60s to read Order Of The Phoenix. I did read the first 4 books and enjoyed them. I did like Order of the Phoenix.

A few chapters here were the best of any of the books but Im still thinking it all over before I come up with a opinion about it.



-Like Goblet of Fire, its too long and needs to be trimmed down a bit. As said theres alot of stuff here that is mentioned but goes nowhere.
-It seemed to me that it took forever to really get going.The first chapter to REALLY suck me in was Harrys Occlumency(sp?)lessons with Snape
-The bit with the Durseys is better here than any of the other summers so far IMHO.
-Nice to see Lupin,Mad Eye etc still in the story.
-The promise of seeing a "Wizard Goverment" wasnt fulfilling enough (but then Ive probally just read Behold A Pale Horse too many times).
-Harry I think was more realized here - and were seeing the affects of whats happened to him in the the first 4 books taking it a toll and shaping him. No kid could go through what he has and its cool to see how its shaping him.
-Finally seeing some Wizards dueling
-Nice to see his "romance" didnt work out. It was very realistically done IMHO.
-Already mentioned I really liked that we're finally told why Prof Trewlany has a job. A nice touch.
-The death of Sirius. I had a feeling during the Black house cleaning chapter that it would be Sirius. But to tell you the truth I didnt feel emotional enough at his demise and IMHO the whoel thing happened under a cloud of a question mark. we'll have to see in the next 2 books.
-Hagrid was pretty much wasted here.
-I wanted to choke Mrs Weasley 1/3 of the way through the book.
-Finally Lucius Malfoy is threatening and imposing
(instead of being made to look silly by a House Elf)
-Alot of info and stuff from past books nicely connecting them all together.
-Nice to see Neville beginning to grow here and be a hero as well as other kids all getting in on the action.
-Better realization of some of the characters..Snape,Durseys,Ginny,Sirius
-Snape just seemed to Leap out of the pages of this book - Harry lessons with him were very exciting and I loved his response to Harry seeing his "Memory" as well as his attitude toward Potter aftwerwards (Throwing the only potion Harry had done right all year to the ground ans such)
-Seeing Harrys personality and hows hes becoming more powerful, it makes me wonder whether Rowling will revisit Harry in the future after book 7 is done.Maybe years down the line after shes done some other projects she wants to do. It seems to me it a shame well never seen Harry or Hermoine as mature Wizards and at the peak of their abilites.


I also was hoping to see Harry show a bit of appreciation towards Aunt Petunia after what Dumbledore told him. A hug,a smile, something. It would have been a nice ending I think.

As said, her writting is obviously better, but this book doesnt seem as focused as the earlier efforts and she trying to accomplish alot here, but I sort of miss the simplicity of the earlier stuff.


BTW - My favorite chapter, one I really cant wait to see put to film was "Snapes Worse Memory". I reread this chapter again after finishing it. Very nicely done.


I think Rowling has alot of work ahead of her to wrap everything up in the next 2 books.



Right now Id have rate them like this, but it can always change

1.Prisoner Of Azkaban
2.Goblet Of Fire (Which was also too long)
3.Sorcerors Stone
4.Order Of The Phoenix
5.Chamber Of Secrets



Now back to Conan braining people with steak bones and gutting mercenaries,leaving their heads and entrails on the floor I LOVE these old Howard stories

 

[Yee-Ming]

 

[Chris]

OK, I have to ask if others thought this..


The scene in which Harry saw how snape was treated by his father.. that scene really made me think about the implications on Harry.. was Snape being hard on harry in part because of the ill treatment wrought on him by Harry's father? Maybe Harry knew, after seeing that, what it was like to be on the other end..

I somewhat expected Harry to go to snape later in the book and say "look, I know you said not to tell anyone else, but I wanted to say I was sorry; in a lot of ways, I'm a lot like -you- were then; I face the same kind of treatment you did from my father.. maybe we are a lot more alike then different.."

But then, that was just my thought.



Loved it. Loved almost every page of it. I found the character development great, and the conclusion will make for some hellacious film making.

 

[Tino]

RafaelB

Thanks so much for providing that link! It was extremely helpful in recapping the last four books. As I said, I felt a bit lost, and that site helped tremendously. I urge all of you to check it out.

Now I can finally get back to reading Phoenix.

Thanks again!

 

[RafaelB]

Tino-

You're welcome. I found it as useful as you did. I'm glad I came across it in a USAtoday.com article about HP.

Rafael

 

[Tino]

Btw, thanks to tip on the WEBTV homepage, I finally have figured out how to read spoilers on the HTF.

Hold down the Cmd. key and press the A key and ALL the text, including blacked out spoiler text, will be visible and highlighted in blue.

So Block away!

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

 

[Chris Bardon]

Finished it the other day- a couple of thoughts...


Chris-I agree with you about Harry and Snape, and I really thought that there'd be some more follow-up on what Harry saw. Probably in the next book though. I want more Snape next time dammit! He's one of the most interesting characters she has. Why did he turn on Voldemort? Why did he never get the Dark Arts job?

Something I enjoyed about this book (and to a lesser extent, the last one) was that the other houses were developed a little more. In the first three books, it seemed that all of Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff were just sort of there by default, and that the only people who mattered were Gryffindor and Slytherin. Here, we at least see some fleshed out characters from the other houses. I'm still a little disappointed that Slytherin seems to be made out to be "evil" all the time. I'm actually hoping that in the last two books, there's something, or someone, good come out of that house-just to break the stigma.

One thing that I really noticed though was that the characters seemed to be influenced by their film counterparts more this time. I didn't go back and re-read the first books to verify this, but there were a couple that stood out. One of my biggest complaints about Philosopher's stone was that Richard Harris was not Albus Dumbledore. The book portrayed him as a little "wackier" and absent minded, a lot more like Merlin in the Disney Sword in the Stone. Harris' character was far more stoic however, which seemed to reflect itself in the new book. I also noticed that Snape was described exactly as Alan Rickman looked in the films, but this could have been there the whole time.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Harris' character was far more stoic however, which seemed to reflect itself in the new book. I also noticed that Snape was described exactly as Alan Rickman looked in the films, but this could have been there the whole time.

Well, the events in this book are far more dire than PS/SS aren't they? I mean, it's hard to be whimsical when you have the news you have to give. And Snape is very much the book Snape; the fact that Rickman matched up so well to what Rowling described is a casting coup. The only character, as I have mentioned previously, that seemed influenced by the movie portrayal was the rougher, gruffer Hagrid.