Movies & Cinema during the Pandemic? Catch-all Discussion (1 Viewer)

[Adam Lenhardt]

It'll be interesting to see if tonight's vaccine announcement, that all adults will be able to register for an appointment starting May 1 and get their first shot before June 1, affects the rollout of this one in the United States. Functional immunity comes seven days after the second Pfizer shot, 14 days after the second Moderna shot, and 28 days after the single Johnson & Johnson shot. Which in turn means that the people who get their first (or only) shot in late May will be able to start to change their behavior by early July.

If they bumped this to Shang-Chi's July 9th slot, it would potentially make way more money than sticking with the May release.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

You got that right.

If you want to believe 1000s of people have gotten infected at movie theaters but NO ONE has traced any of these infections to said theaters, you go for it.

I find it perplexing that you demand data from me while you can provide none of your own to demonstrate that attendance at movie theaters puts patrons at risk.

The notion that movie theaters are a hotbed for COVID seems to be based on faith, not facts.

When you have actual data that indicates clear COVID spread due to exposure at movie theaters, let's talk.

Until then... adios!

 

[Mike2001]

While I hesitate to hop into this debate, because I don't have any direct data about infections in movie theaters either, I do understand the source of the trepidation - namely the data about catching the virus in poorly ventilated indoor spaces, with the likelihood rising with number of people and length of time in the enclosed space. I'm not taking the time to look up the data but it was making the rounds last spring/early summer. They can probably be found in the locked pandemic thread. (They were also the data sets that recommended closing indoor dining and bars.)

One item I particularly remember was a study on the likelihood of catching the virus in a meeting room with 20 people where one was infected (big enough meeting room that the people were properly social distanced). This was meant as a study to show the efficacy of masks. It showed an 80% chance of catching the virus after 2 hours if no one were wearing masks and a 5% chance of catching it if everyone were wearing a mask. In a movie theater, where there might be more than 20 people and where people might be taking their masks off to eat their snacks, and where most of the others present are random strangers, yikes.

It was studies like that last one that kept me out of movie theaters last summer when they started to reopen.

To the point of the thread, I will be fully vaccinated by the time Black Widow opens so will probably go see it in the theaters in May (masked up, of course). My kids would normally have accompanied me but they will be sitting this one out.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

While I hesitate to hop into this debate, because I don't have any direct data about infections in movie theaters either, I do understand the source of the trepidation - namely the data about catching the virus in poorly ventilated indoor spaces, with the likelihood rising with number of people and length of time in the enclosed space. I'm not taking the time to look up the data but it was making the rounds last spring/early summer. They can probably be found in the locked pandemic thread. (They were also the data sets that recommended closing indoor dining and bars.)

One item I particularly remember was a study on the likelihood of catching the virus in a meeting room with 20 people where one was infected (big enough meeting room that the people were properly social distanced). This was meant as a study to show the efficacy of masks. It showed an 80% chance of catching the virus after 2 hours if no one were wearing masks and a 5% chance of catching it if everyone were wearing a mask. In a movie theater, where there might be more than 20 people and where people might be taking their masks off to eat their snacks, and where most of the others present are random strangers, yikes.

It was studies like that last one that kept me out of movie theaters last summer when they started to reopen.

To the point of the thread, I will be fully vaccinated by the time Black Widow opens so will probably go see it in the theaters in May (masked up, of course). My kids would normally have accompanied me but they will be sitting this one out.

It seems to me that the issues with indoor spaces tends to be small indoor spaces.

An infected person sits near a vent, hack hack, the germs enter the airstream and spread around the room.

Most movie auditoriums are pretty large and the vents are in the ceiling. Even in a medium-sized room, they're what, 30 feet up?

Those germs gotta really work hard to get to these vents in the first place, much less head back down in a way that'll impact a viewer.

Is it impossible? No, but it just seems improbable - and this is without consideration of filtration systems.

AMC claims they've upgraded their filtration, and I'm inclined to believe them.

I had a conversation with a woman the other day who said a good friend of hers works at AMC corporate, and he attested to the pains AMC's gone to make their locations up to snuff in terms of their anti-COVID upgrades.

Basically they're terrified of lawsuits so they're working overtime to prevent that.

I felt safe at AMC before that conversation, so I feel even more comfortable now.

 

[TravisR]

AMC claims they've upgraded their filtration, and I'm inclined to believe them.

I had a conversation with a woman the other day who said a good friend of hers works at AMC corporate, and he attested to the pains AMC's gone to make their locations up to snuff in terms of their anti-COVID upgrades.

Basically they're terrified of lawsuits so they're working overtime to prevent that.

I felt safe at AMC before that conversation, so I feel even more comfortable now.

If AMC said they upgraded the filtration but they actually didn't, they'd have to be completely out of their minds because it definitely would have leaked out before they even reopened back in August and it would have devastated the company and the entire exhibition industry. That's not to say that it will protect people or that anyone should go to theaters but they definitely upgraded the system.

 

[Mike2001]

It seems to me that the issues with indoor spaces tends to be small indoor spaces.

An infected person sits near a vent, hack hack, the germs enter the airstream and spread around the room.

Most movie auditoriums are pretty large and the vents are in the ceiling. Even in a medium-sized room, they're what, 30 feet up?

Those germs gotta really work hard to get to these vents in the first place, much less head back down in a way that'll impact a viewer.

Is it impossible? No, but it just seems improbable - and this is without consideration of filtration systems.

AMC claims they've upgraded their filtration, and I'm inclined to believe them.

I had a conversation with a woman the other day who said a good friend of hers works at AMC corporate, and he attested to the pains AMC's gone to make their locations up to snuff in terms of their anti-COVID upgrades.

Basically they're terrified of lawsuits so they're working overtime to prevent that.

I felt safe at AMC before that conversation, so I feel even more comfortable now.

I don't know that small spaces or a vent necessarily have anything to do with it. There is the famous case of the hour long choir practice in a church that turned into a super-spreader event. A church or a theater seem to be similar configurations. Singing probably spews out more droplets than sitting there, but would it be that different than someone laughing between bites of their popcorn? (I'll give you that they are probably not laughing for most of an hour like the choir singers would have been singing, and most are probably wearing masks.)

We all do our own risk analysis when it comes to our own behavior. Probability of occurrence vs consequence. When the consequence could be death, the probability better be pretty darn small. I've been asking myself for the last year before undertaking an action - if I end up in the hospital or dead, would the action have been worth it? For some things, like outdoor exercise, I consider the probability small enough and the mental and physical health benefits large enough that I have been doing it multiple times a week. But eating in a restaurant or going to a movie haven't yet tripped that threshold.

I'll have to rethink all of my risk analyses after we are fully vaccinated, but I'm pretty sure movies and family visits will go back on the to-do list. My son's birthday is on May 4. My wife and I will have been vaccinated (plus 2 weeks) by then. So will all grand-parents and several aunts and uncles. His birthday might be our first extended family gathering in well over a year.

 

[Sean Bryan]

If you want to believe 1000s of people have gotten infected at movie theaters but NO ONE has traced any of these infections to said theaters, you go for it.

I find it perplexing that you demand data from me while you can provide none of your own to demonstrate that attendance at movie theaters puts patrons at risk.

People breathing unmasked around other people in a public place puts each other (and other future contacts not even in that environment) at risk. If you don’t understand that then that is the thing that is truly perplexing.

My point, which is sad that I have to spell it out, was that there is NO detailed data tracing where everyone of the 29+ million US COVID cases were contracted. Again, you are welcome to provide the data that says otherwise. If you can’t account for where all of those cases were contracted, then you can’t say that say that any particular environment hasn’t had any infections just because there aren’t “reports” of cases contracted in said environment.

You chose to initiate this by belittling fellow form members who were voicing concerns about going to the theater by stating that there were no reported infections in theaters, so why are they being so silly, which is garbage logic. You got called out on it. Suck it up.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Guys,

I've moved several posts from the "Black Widow' thread to this one because the discussion became focused on personal and public safety issues in watching movies during this pandemic rather than that movie. Let's keep the "Black Widow" thread focused on that movie itself and "pandemic-related" discussion in this thread. Thank you.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

If AMC said they upgraded the filtration but they actually didn't, they'd have to be completely out of their minds because it definitely would have leaked out before they even reopened back in August and it would have devastated the company and the entire exhibition industry. That's not to say that it will protect people or that anyone should go to theaters but they definitely upgraded the system.

Agree. I cited the comments from the woman I met just as a little extra bit of "proof" that AMC's done what they claimed.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

View attachment 92069

People breathing unmasked around other people in a public place puts each other (and other future contacts not even in that environment) at risk. If you don’t understand that then that is the thing that is truly perplexing.

My point, which is sad that I have to spell it out, was that there is NO detailed data tracing where everyone of the 29+ million US COVID cases were contracted. Again, you are welcome to provide the data that says otherwise. If you can’t account for where all of those cases were contracted, then you can’t say that say that any particular environment hasn’t had any infections just because there aren’t “reports” of cases contracted in said environment.

You chose to initiate this by belittling fellow form members who were voicing concerns about going to the theater by stating that there were no reported infections in theaters, so why are they being so silly, which is garbage logic. You got called out on it. Suck it up.

You win. You're the new Fauci. You should be put in charge of everything COVID because you're on top of it all.

You're right. Movie theaters have been a disaster. People dropping dead in the middle of movies, collapsing into their popcorn.

Clearly open theaters have been a death sentence. You've offered so much concrete data to demonstrate mass infections from theaters.

Why did I ever doubt you???

 

[Colin Jacobson]

I don't know that small spaces or a vent necessarily have anything to do with it. There is the famous case of the hour long choir practice in a church that turned into a super-spreader event. A church or a theater seem to be similar configurations. Singing probably spews out more droplets than sitting there, but would it be that different than someone laughing between bites of their popcorn? (I'll give you that they are probably not laughing for most of an hour like the choir singers would have been singing, and most are probably wearing masks.)

Here's the CDC summary from the choir event in question:

"Following a 2.5-hour choir practice attended by 61 persons, including a symptomatic index patient, 32 confirmed and 20 probable secondary COVID-19 cases occurred...; three patients were hospitalized, and two died. Transmission was likely facilitated by close proximity (within 6 feet) during practice and augmented by the act of singing."


So people grouped closely together, not wearing masks, and doing an activity that constantly spewed air/droplets for 2.5 hours.

Compare that to movie theaters, where no strangers will be within 6 feet of you, you probably won't see more than 15 people in a large room, most/all wearing masks, with only occasional "active spewing" from laughs.

I don't see how these are remotely comparable.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Let's calm down! If you're going to be snarky towards each other then it's time "to agree to disagree" and move on from each other's POV.

 

[bujaki]

My state lifted the mask mandate and opened all venues to 100% capacity. Although I've received both my shots, I'm not going anywhere near a theater for the time being. A stranger next to me, maskless and unvaccinated? No thanks.

 

[Malcolm R]

There seem to be a lot of references to recirculated air in these threads. Most every HVAC system has a fresh air intake or air exchanger. Very few are closed systems outside of laboratory uses or health care quarantine rooms. Many also contain filters. Other than being outdoors, a large commercial building with its expansive cubic footage and central HVAC system is probably one of the safer places you can be.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

My state lifted the mask mandate and opened all venues to 100% capacity. Although I've received both my shots, I'm not going anywhere near a theater for the time being. A stranger next to me, maskless and unvaccinated? No thanks.

Out of curiosity, I looked up AMC locations in the Dallas area and AMC has kept them at max 40% even with your idiot governor's lifting of restrictions.

I think they've maintained this policy nationwide. I checked Florida as well - 40% there, too.

Does anyone know what other chains are doing? Is anyone actually allowing full capacity?

 

[Colin Jacobson]

There seem to be a lot of references to recirculated air in these threads. Most every HVAC system has a fresh air intake or air exchanger. Very few are closed systems outside of laboratory uses or health care quarantine rooms. Many also contain filters. Other than being outdoors, a large commercial building with its expansive cubic footage and central HVAC system is probably one of the safer places you can be.

Thank you!

 

[BobO'Link]

There seem to be a lot of references to recirculated air in these threads. Most every HVAC system has a fresh air intake or air exchanger. Very few are closed systems outside of laboratory uses or health care quarantine rooms. Many also contain filters. Other than being outdoors, a large commercial building with its expansive cubic footage and central HVAC system is probably one of the safer places you can be.

From a November, 2020 article in the LA Times:

The Times asked experts to rate the safety of certain activities on a scale from 0 to 100, 0 being the least likely to result in COVID-19 infection and 100 being the most dangerous. Among the activities listed, they separately agreed indoor moviegoing was among the riskiest. Benjamin declined to provide ratings but put moviegoing in the range of going to an indoor restaurant.

• Outdoor restaurant: 10
• Grocery store: 15-20 (or 30-40 if people congregate)
• Commercial airliner: 40-50
• Outdoor event, not socially distanced, masks not enforced: 40-50
• Indoor movie: 50-60 (up to 75 if people are laughing, shouting, singing along)
• Indoor bar, masks and social distancing not enforced: 80

I still won't go to an outdoor event (most around here match the description of that article), much less a theater or restaurant.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

From a November, 2020 article in the LA Times:



I still won't go to an outdoor event (most around here match the description of that article), much less a theater or restaurant.

The ratings are meaningless unless they discuss %age of occupancy.

Movie theater packed cheek to jowl = obvious risk.

Movie theater with 8 people, all spaced well = much lower risk.

From the article:

“The guidance looks great on paper,” said Dr. Peter Chin-Hong, an infectious disease specialist at UC San Francisco. “If you have a well-ventilated movie theater and people keep their masks on for the whole time and they are socially distant, and you don’t go to the movies when you’re sick ... it’s probably going to be a relatively safe environment.”

Also, note that the linked article came out before vaccines, which lessen the risk further.

 

[TravisR]

Out of curiosity, I looked up AMC locations in the Dallas area and AMC has kept them at max 40% even with your idiot governor's lifting of restrictions.

I think they've maintained this policy nationwide. I checked Florida as well - 40% there, too.

Does anyone know what other chains are doing? Is anyone actually allowing full capacity?

I get the feeling that whatever a state's regulations, no corporation's lawyers are willing to let their company fill a confined space right now.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

I get the feeling that whatever a state's regulations, no corporation's lawyers are willing to let their company fill a confined space right now.

I agree in terms of the big chains - I did wonder if any smaller chains or independents were allowing more than 40%, though...