Motion of DVD vs. HDTV

Discussion in 'Playback Devices' started by Mike Capulli, Dec 17, 2003.

  1. Mike Capulli

    Mike Capulli Stunt Coordinator

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    Ive recently put together my new home theater in a new house that my family has moved to. I have a Hitachi 65S500 with the HD upscaling to 1080i / 540p. My DVD player is an older / cheaper JVC prog scan dvd player and my HD reciever is an RCA RTC100 with a VGA->component converter to the TV.

    My question is.. after watching some HD stuff on DirecTV, im kind of pleased not only by the detail of the HD stuff but more of the motion of it. I dont think my TV can do 720p so im assuming the signal is interlaced. However the motion of the image kind of stutters more than when im watching a dvd. Its more cinematic, its not a bad thing or a problem. Im just kind of wondering why... even with a prog scan DVD player upscaled to 540p HDTV... why doesnt DVD have such a slower stuttering motion like HD stuff does? DVD seems so smoooth and less cinematic compared to the HD stuff... regardless of interlace / progressive. Is it time for a DVD player upgrade or is that just the way it is?

    Any comments are greatly appreciated.
     
  2. John S

    John S Producer

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    I'm in the same boat...

    I am hope'n a new DVD player with the Faroudja(sp?) chip set will give me what I crave. 3:2 Pulldown is what it is, at least it is the attempt to give some of that to DVD's.
    I'm letting my TV do the progressive scan as well. It is darn good, my friend was over and could not believe I wanted better than it is.

    That HD is really something huh?

    I am quite taken with just how good it is really.
     
  3. Mike Capulli

    Mike Capulli Stunt Coordinator

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    well.. its difficult for me to tell the difference in the MOTION charactaristics of my TV's upscale to 540p / 1080i. The 1080i looks less jaggy, but i cant see a difference in the actual motion of it regardless of the dvd's output. (480p/480i)

    Yea the HD is awesome.. I know DVD wont ever have the detail of HD... but id like to at least watch DVD's with the same kind of harsh cinematic motion that i can see with it. I dunno my DVDs just seem too smooth.
     
  4. John S

    John S Producer

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    Well one of us, or maybe even both of us, is going to have to break down and buy a better dvd player.

    I think I am just going to do it, I mean, how much sense does it make pumping less than $100 DVD into a $2k or more HDTV anyways? :)
     
  5. Mike Capulli

    Mike Capulli Stunt Coordinator

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    True, but are you sure its the 3:2 pulldown? because my TV does that internally and neither the DVD's player or my TV's 3:2 gives me the desired performance.
     
  6. John S

    John S Producer

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    Ahhh but it does nto do it with a Faroudja chipset now does it?????


    Everything I read, says, that is the closest you can get.

    There is also a newer Silion Graphics I believe chip set, that gives similar type performance.

    I think the movie has to actually contain the queues for it to really have a more dramatic impact too.


    But I know what you mean, mine is really great as well.

    But the motion is not like the HD motion, and I know exactly what you mean by this. or I think I do anyways, as I had made nearly the same comments just last night while demo'n my new HDTV to a friend.

    He thought I was stark crazy to replace my DVD player over it. I had to agree somewhat with him about that anyways.. lol
     
  7. Mike Capulli

    Mike Capulli Stunt Coordinator

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    well here is another thought. Lets say when im watchin an HD signal with this great motion to it... its not a progressive signal. I say this cuz I dont believe my HD Reciever OR my HDTV can do 720p. So I think its all 1080i. Is this motion im watching and wanting for DVD a for sure progressive/interlace/pulldown issue?
     
  8. Mike Capulli

    Mike Capulli Stunt Coordinator

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    Perhaps one of these new DVD players that scale to 720p/1080i will do the trick? Im kind of looking into the Samsung HD931 with the Faroudja chip and DVI. Dunno how it compares to the Bravo D1 but the Sammy is easier cuz i can just pick it up at best buy and return it.

    Any comments?
     
  9. John S

    John S Producer

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    Actually, in play'n around last night, I think the motion on HD is created by tyhe MP2 compression. It has to do with the background truly not changing, while motion happens either to the camera or the subjects on the screen.

    It is kind of funny, because, I actually think they have come up all sorts of technology to make sure DVD's are much smoother than that.
     
  10. Greg Kolinski

    Greg Kolinski Second Unit

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    I had the same "motion jitters" on my older JVC 502? player.I read somwhere that this is a characteristic of some of the later JVC products??
     
  11. John S

    John S Producer

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    Maybe, but I think what we are talking about here, is an over smoothness of our DVD's....

    I watched LOTR last night, it was truly stunning at 480p, the motion is silky smooth, compared to HDTV, which just has a different motion to it. I really think is created by MP2 compression, and definetly not a bad thing at all.

    It actually helps make it seem more 3D, just watch an HD source pan around a city, observe the way the sky and buildings appear as the camera pans around. Quite stunning, and really does add somewhat to that 3D effect.

    Like I said what is funny, is there has been so much technology put into making DVD's perform in the smooth silky manner they do during motion.

    PS: I am still going to try a different "much better" DVD player in my near future. It is a hard call, as the current player allowing the TV to do the progressive scan, is really impressive.

    A better player that does the progrssive scan, would allow me to use a 16:9 native diplay format, I think this will increase my effective resolution. 4:3 material would appear smaller in this config, but with a 60", I can afford quite a bit of shrinkage, and still be way larger than my 48" 4:3 non-hd tv I upraded from.

    Peace out
     
  12. Mike Capulli

    Mike Capulli Stunt Coordinator

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    So you're saying on DVDs, the lower bitrate causes stationary backrounds to not change every frame.... where as HD bandwidth forces the whole image to constantly update itself.. thus causing a more aggressive film look?

    greg- do you think the "motion jitters" you experienced was a problem? or were they similar to this whole HD thing?

    Im going to go and get the Samsung HD931 within the next few days and ill let you know what happens.
     
  13. John S

    John S Producer

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    I am saying, I think it is almost opposite. So much technology has been applied to DVD's to give them that silky motion.

    True HD using MP2 anyways, just does not have the slew of motion helpers available for DVD. In other words I think that in general the backgrounds are updated more frequently on DVD's....

    Just a hunch, I really tried to nail this down last night.
    I also think just as you posted, I prefer the feel of HD better on motion, I'll bet some people might say it is the other way around for them though.
     
  14. Don_Berg

    Don_Berg Supporting Actor

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    One difference between DVDs and HDTV broadcasts is that DVDs are encoded offline with multi-pass methods that can achieve higher quality compression reducing artifacts. HDTV broadcasts however are compressed in real-time (not multipass) at the local station and are going to have lower quality compression due to that fact.
     
  15. Mike Capulli

    Mike Capulli Stunt Coordinator

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    See, to me... HD looks more cinematic. The jerkiness somewhat resembles the shutter on a projector to a certain extent. DVD is too smooth in comparison (in my eyes).
     

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