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More Sonosub Questions

Discussion in 'Home Theater Projects' started by SteveCallas, Jul 4, 2005.

  1. SteveCallas

    SteveCallas Second Unit

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    Yes, but you only used two layers of 3/4" mdf, so that makes sense.

    I will be using a 42lb driver with 28" diameter sonotube, so I will use 3 layers of 3/4" mdf plus an additional layer of 1/2" plywood. Even if I didn't use the plywood, that's 2.25" of mdf. The longest binding posts I can find are 1.5", so I would have to cut large holes through layers 1 and 3 to act as countersinks for the narrow holes in layer 2.

    I'd then have to fit my fingers in these countersink holes to run wire through the binding posts and to make the sodder. Too much hassle. I truly do appreciate the suggestion, but I think I'll stick with the binding posts being positioned low on the back of the tube.
     
  2. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Studio Mogul

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    You can make the solder joint out from the endcap, and then drop the cable through later. I didn't bother to solder my connections, just used spade connectors, worked fine all these years.

    Is this driver suitable for downfiring operation?

    1/4" plywood is good enough, no need for 1/2".
     
  3. SteveCallas

    SteveCallas Second Unit

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    Agreed, but I have extra 1/2" plywood laying around.
     
  4. BlakeN

    BlakeN Stunt Coordinator

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    Just another T-Nut tip. I find it much easier to use a large washer and bolt to tighten the t-nut into place instead of hammering it in. They just seem to line up better that way.

    Pat, I have been looking for one of those drill press addapters for a while I can't believe how hard it is to find one.

    I found the "drill guid" on sears website thanks Pat.
    http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/produ...ll+Attachments
     
  5. SteveCallas

    SteveCallas Second Unit

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    Sounds like a good idea, thanks.
     
  6. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Studio Mogul

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    I was just saying that if you used a terminal cup, snaking the cable through the hole isn't that big a deal, and you wouldn't have to have a lot of dexterity to do so. It seemed like you were worried about soldering in close quarters with everything screwed into place, but it wouldn't have to be the case. Just leave a little slack in the cable and you have plenty of room to solder, and then screw in all the parts afterwards.

    I guess I got lucky with that drill press adapter for my drill, eh? [​IMG]
     
  7. SteveCallas

    SteveCallas Second Unit

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    Ok I got you - but I still don't want to thin my end cap down to 3/4" when the rest will be at least 2.25". Again, I do appreciate the suggestion though.

    It seems like everything is in order now. I just have to wait for the new Ascendant Audio drivers to come out to get started.

    Any other suggestions?
     
  8. Aaron Gilbert

    Aaron Gilbert Second Unit

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    A few thoughts:

    I don't think having a small section down to 3/4" thick is going to make a bit of difference when the remainder is 2.25" thick. However, those posts have a 1.5" long shaft, so it's unclear to m why you would need a recessed section any thinner than about 1.25" for those binding posts. Regarding ease of connection, is there some reason you aren't considering banana plugs? Those posts look to take them on the tip. I'm with Patrick on not soldering. Use a quality crimper and make sure the female disconnect fits tightly on the male binding post spade, and there are no problems. For an even tighter connection, you could use a ring terminal under the rear binding post nut.

    On the T-nut issue, I am not a fan. When whey work flawlessly, they are ok. When they cross-thread or come out with the mounting bolt still attached, they are the biggest pain in the a** you will ever deal with, and will make you wish they were never invented.


    Aaron Gilbert
     
  9. SteveCallas

    SteveCallas Second Unit

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    Can you clarify this a bit more, I'm a little confused.

    I was thinking about using a ring terminal screwed tightly against the nut, but why go from the binding post to a ring to a wire when you can go from the binding post to the wire by soldering? The shortest path with the least connections is the best. Same thing with the banana plugs - I don't see the need to constantly plug and unplug the wires, so why add something to the signal path? Also, doesn't soldering provide the best connection because it keeps the contact point oxygen free? I will solder and then wrap it with some moisture and copper corrosion-resistant electrical tape.


    I don't necessarily see what is so bad about having the binding posts on the lower back side of the sub. It's a lot easier and keeps the thickness of the bottom plate uniform. Nobody will see the back of my sub, and even if they do, it will just look like any other speaker that has binding posts in the back. In fact, since my base plate will be about 1" thick and the legs will be about 8" tall, if the binding posts were on bottom, you'd see the thick speaker wire hanging down. In the back, you won't because it's higher off the ground.

    As far as the T Nuts, I'm really confused now. Some love them and some hate them. I don't think I will have to take the driver out of it's place ever, but at the same time, the T Nuts will provide more stability and a threaded connection. I'm still not sure on this.
     
  10. SteveCallas

    SteveCallas Second Unit

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    Wow, I just picked up the sonotube today, 28" wide is nothing to scoff at. When they first brought it out, I asked myself what was I getting into! But I've had it sitting in the corner where it will be placed when done, and once I get a black sock on there it shouldn't be too bad...who am I kidding, it's HUGE!

    Now I find myself in a predicament. I have the tube and I want to get started. The discontinued Avalanche 18"s are at a great price right now but whichever driver I get, I want to be able to get a second down the road for the second sub so they will have the same sonic signature and add 6db's. I don't want to spend about $600 right now on two drivers because the cost of the single sub will be around $900-$1000 when I figure in the amp.

    I don't know if I should wait for the new drivers - I have a feeling they will perform a little better, but for how much more money? If I wait for the new drivers, I will have a huge piece of sonotube sitting here taunting me. I can't start on the woodwork until I have the driver in hand to get all of the measurements exact. The only thing I can do this weekend is find a way to get a sock done. Hopefully Joann Fabrics will do some sewing for me.

    What do you guys think I should do about the driver?
     
  11. BlakeN

    BlakeN Stunt Coordinator

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    Steve I would get the 18" now and then sell it if you ever want to buy 2 of the same driver. You can't beat the price for that 18". You could also be taking a gamble on the new drivers. I haven't heard anything about the new drivers but if you visit thier official forum I would say 80-90% of the people using this driver that post there are using it for car audio so it would not be unreasonable for the next drivers to shift a bit to the spl side and away from sq. Once again thats only my opinion and I could be completely wrong.

    BTW I finaly got my ava 15" this week and I cant wait to build a box for it. I was thinking of going sono too but I think it will take up less visual space in my HT if I go with a box. I am however dreading the weight of it.
     
  12. SteveCallas

    SteveCallas Second Unit

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    True, this price can't be beat for what you get. But the website says expect the same or better performance from the new drivers - I have a sneaky feeling that the new drivers might be a bit better, I don't know. Also, who is to say that the dimensions on the new drivers will be exactly the same, so if I wanted to sell this one, would I be sure the next one fits right in its place without having to somehow take apart my bottom cap and build a new one - plus the port length may not be suitable.

    Then again, I could build this one now and get spectacular performance out of it and if I find the new drivers are better, either try to sell the whole sonosub and build two new sonosubs or just keep it and build two more anyway. The costs for these sonosubs are relatively cheap, but I just started a real job and don't want to spend $1,500 right off the bat, which is why I don't want to buy two drivers right away.

    I think I will call Ascendant Audio Monday to see if they can give me ANY information on the new drivers. I might just go ahead and buy the current 18" then if I can't get any solid info.

    Today I bought the fabric for the sock and some pretty thick batting. Joann Fabrics had this perfect black stretchy fabric that is almost neoprene like and was only $3/yard. They also had an 11oz can of spray adhesive for only $5, much cheaper than everywhere else I looked. I installed the batting today, but when I took the material for the sock to a seamstress to sew a seam in it, she was already closed, so that will have to wait.

    To those that have built sonosubs with a sock on them, how did you secure the sock to the top and bottom? I am thinking on putting the sock on and stretching the material over the top and bottom edges and stapling the overlap to the inside before putting on the endcaps. Does this sound ok? If not, and if you put the endcaps on first, how did you secure the top and bottom of the cloth?
     
  13. Ryan Schnacke

    Ryan Schnacke Supporting Actor

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    I was under the impression that the Avalanche 18's and 15's were sold out. Maybe I'm just making that up?

    The next gen Ava 18's should go for somewhere near the old Ava 18 prices - about $400 each. So if you can still get one on closeout this is a no-brainer. Heck, why wouldn't you just buy 2 now for $550 instead of 2 later for $800? Do you really think the next Ava's are going to be THAT much better? And do you really think you'd ever need more than 2 of the 1st gen Ava 18's?
     
  14. SteveCallas

    SteveCallas Second Unit

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    Believe me, it is VERY tempting to just buy two drivers right now. I have the money, my company gave me a very nice signing bonus, but at the same time, this single sub will cost me between $900 - $1000 dollars. Add another driver plus shipping and I'm looking at $1,300 within one month of starting work. Do I have more than enough money for that, yes, but do I want to spend that much right now, I'd prefer not to. Damn it is tempting though.

    The other hitch is that even though I have the other huge sonotube piece already, and would have the second driver and an open spot on my amp, I don't intend on using the second sonosub for at least a year until I purchase a home. Right now in my two room apartment, this single sonosub will be so OVERKILL already it isn't even funny.

    It's a difficult situation. I'm working on a project for my company right now that will save them over 1.2 million a year, and here I am debating over spending $300. And you're right, what if their new drivers cost $400 or more? I'd have been better off with two of these. Damn it, while writing these past few sentences I think I just convinced myself - two drivers it is. Thanks Ryan. Hopefully they still have two.
     
  15. BlakeN

    BlakeN Stunt Coordinator

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    Steve I know how you feel I routinely make purchases that are more then my house. In fact 3 weeks ago I bought 1 (one) piece of software that is worth 2 years of my salary.

    I think Chad is a pretty honest guy but no company is going to put out a new line of product by advertising that it isn't quite as good as their old product.

    If you get any information about the new subs please let us know. I am hoping they put out a 10" and 8" as well. One for car and one for computer [​IMG]
     
  16. SteveCallas

    SteveCallas Second Unit

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    Started calling Ascendant at 11:55, after a few tries I got through. Ordered 2 of the last 10 Avalanche 18" drivers available - should be here near the end of July.

    It's a good thing I ordered now and that Ryan helped convince me to get two, because I asked about the new drivers and they said they are debating whether or not to even make an 18" anymore. They said some who use an 18" in a car find that it is too big or the super low frequencies are too overpowering. He also asked if I was using it for home theater - he said most are using the 18" for just that. Finally, they are tossing the idea around of selling fully manufactured consumer subwoofers for home use, I guess since a lot of people use their drivers for home theater already. It will be interesting to see.
     
  17. Joe L.

    Joe L. Stunt Coordinator

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    Steve,

    So you were the one who was tying up the phone... [​IMG]

    I could not get through till 1:30... the line was either busy or went to the answering machine. [​IMG]

    But, when I did get to talk to Chad... I ordered a second Avalanche 18 for my project. [​IMG]

    Guess there are even fewer left now.

    Good luck with your project. I know you will be moving out of that apartment soon after you complete your pair of sonosubs... no way the neighbors will let you stay once you turn up the volume :b :b

    Joe L.
     
  18. SteveCallas

    SteveCallas Second Unit

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    It's going to be all about timing. I can submit to not watching movies and only listening to music on my computer system (pretty decent Boston Acoustics setup) during the weekdays. Come Saturdays and Sundays though, that's when I will let loose.

    If someone ever knocks on my door to complain about the bass, I'll act confused and say that I heard it as well but it wasn't coming from me....as a giant black cylinder sits menacingly in the background.

    That got me thinking, I can just say it's an air purifier. Genious!
     
  19. SteveCallas

    SteveCallas Second Unit

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    After hearing about "cone sag" for the first time today, I'm wondering if it would make any sense to have the driver fire up on the top end cap and have the port on the bottom? I'm not too sure, seeing as the tube would be top heavy and the port needs more breathing room than the driver. Also, wouldn't the cone possibly just elongate in the other direction then and wear out the surround?

    If that is not logical, would I be forced to lay my sonosub on its side when not in use? Or flip the whole thing upside down while I am away on business trips or something?

    I had never considered this because when I was told by others that the Avalanche 18" is suitable for down firing, I thought that meant there was nothing to worry about. And sure, I may be making a bigger deal about this than it really is, but what it means is that over time, the performance will marginally worse.

    SVS cylinder owners have any comments?
     
  20. Joe L.

    Joe L. Stunt Coordinator

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    Steve,

    A link to a page with formulas to determine "sag" is
    http://www.partsexpress.com/resources/downfire.html

    Plugging in 27 as the Xmax I get 3.5% as the sag.

    I think we are fine as are many others with downfiring subwoofers. I suspect that there is "sag" even when mounted side-firing... eventually gravity will pull the entire former/voicecoil off center when the surround and spider stretch some.

    Joe L.
     

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