More Disney OAR/MAR nonsense (2 Viewers)

[Roger Kint]

“The negative of retail confusion and consumer confusion by having two different options can outweigh the benefit,” - Lori MacPherson, VP of Brand Marketing, Buena Vista Home Entertainment

 

[Joseph Bolus]

They may own TV's larger than 19", but from the decision that disney has made, it appears to me that *they* believe that most those people prefer to buy full screen DVDs.

Again, Disney is missing the point here.

The first four years of the "DVD Surge" was built on a combination of converted LD owners and VHS Widescreen advocates.

These are the people that made DVD what it is today.

These are the people that are most excited about the format. And these are the people that have, in essence, sold the format to the "masses", through their excitement.

If enough of these people are "turned-off" via an exclusive P&S policy, then the excitement is gone.

DVD will continue to grow (just based on sheer mass at this point) but not in the exponential numbers currently predicted.

And that will hurt studios, manufacturers of big-screen sets, and, ultimately the consumer as the initial advocates of the format drift off to other formats (D-Theater?) and heavily fragment the market.

Disney is a making a poor business decision here, simply based on a short-sighted marketing analysis.

 

[streeter]

#1: I was one of those widescreen VHS buyers too.

#2: The Princess Diaries WS DVD only sold 20% of all PD DVDs because it was hard to find the WS version. I REALLY doubt that an equal amount of P&S and WS DVDs was produced and distributed for this title. Therefore, the 10% statistic is total bullshit on Disney's part.

#3: Bolus: you're wrong. See #2.

#4: Most importantly, aside from not reviewing P&S ONLY titles, the DVD sites should also URGE their readers not to buy these specific titles. HTF did it with Follow That Bird. I think all these sites should plaster on their page: Stay away from Max Keeble or Snow Dogs.

 

[Malcolm R]

Right now the majority wants full screen.

I have yet to see any legitimate evidence for this. The studios can't point to sales, because whenever two options are available, most retailers only stock P&S so naturally it's going to sell more. They would have to ensure that an equal number of WS and P&S copies were available at each retail location in order to get a true sense of the public's choice. Of course, they could look at the recent sales charts where WS "Spy Game" is handily outselling the P&S version, but then that would make the P&S policy look silly, wouldn't it? Can't go there, then. :rolleyes
The studios can't point to complaints, because the only people complaining are those who don't like the black bars. We widescreen advocates have been coasting along, blissfully quiet, basking in our OAR glory. But not any longer.
Personally, I think the demand for WS vs. P&S is closer to 50-50, and may even be slightly a WS majority. The only problem is those "swing buyers" in the middle who don't really care one way or the other. They may prefer widescreen, but aren't turned off by P&S either. That is where the battle may be lost.
And if the P&S fans truly make up a majority, it's a majority of people who might buy 6 DVD's in a YEAR, whereas we WS/HT fans sometimes buy 6 DVD's in a WEEK. That's a lot of money to be driving away with a regular menu of P&S titles. The WS/HT fan who may purchase a majority of the titles in WS will likely not purchase any of them, while the P&S fan may prefer the P&S format, but isn't likely to significantly increase the number of DVD's they buy just because they're in P&S.
So you end up cutting guaranteed sales while crossing your fingers and hoping that J6P suddenly decides he can spend a lot more of his money on DVD now that they're P&S. Rather unlikely, since I don't believe that many J6P's have been avoiding buying DVD's to date because they're in WS. He may complain, but he's still buying. He'll continue buying the P&S versions, but a lot of us won't so net sales may actually decrease. Seems like "voodoo economics" to me.

 

[Jon_Are]

It's really quite simple.

Disney is in business primarily not to provide quality entertainment, not to please as many people as possible, and most definitely, not to preserve artistic intent.

Disney's primary intent is to earn as much revenue as possible by whatever method - within reason - available.

Leaning away from OAR releases, as they seem to be doing, is a decision they have made within the abovementioned framework.

And it is a decision based on research.

We can question the validity of their research, but I think we can agree that the Disney folks know how to make money. As much as we enjoy criticizing them, they are not stupid.

We should recognize this as a business decision; nothing more, nothing less. And we should react, not with childish insults or emotional outbursts, but with the only powers we have.

The power to buy as we choose. The power to educate. The power to have our opinions - backed with facts - heard.

To react with outrage because the big corporation doesn't care about us home theatre enthusiasts - and to presume we are entitled to something from them just because we love the hobby - is astonishingly naive.

This is the way the world works, folks.

Jon

 

[GlennH]

I'll never understand how it could be good business to turn your back on people begging to give you money if you would only give them what they want.

As has been said before, OAR enthusiasts will NOT buy P&S. But those who may prefer P&S don't buy as often and don't typically base a decision to buy on the aspect ratio. Many of them wouldn't know what you meant by aspect ratio.

And as to Disney being smart, well, I think a lot of the time they make money in spite of themselves, not because of their business acumen. Michael Eisner, in particular, does not impress me very much. My guess is that Walt would dismiss him in about 2 seconds if he were here. Just my opinion.

 

[Keith Paynter]

I reiterate my comments from a previous thread...
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...threadid=66544

It's amazing what has happened during my 3 year visit to the HTF. DVD was in its infancy, and I was one of the early adopters, spending over $700 (cost!) on a first generation DVD player and making Visa very happy for months on end. When I first came here it was at the encouragement of Steve Tannehill during the winding down of his DVD Resource webpage (which I followed for months) - many of you who were there remember Steve's highly personal, no apologies style, especially when it came to the subjects of Titanic on DVD, and "when is Disney coming to DVD??". When he retired the site, he was welcomed here, and in spite ofsome furious exchanges with other admins and even Ron & Parker, Steve became a full-fledged moderator.
It's amazing and scary what has happen to DVD in the short time since its inception. The next-step in enhanced high end home theater became the holy grail to those of us who were die-hard laserphiles, and cried foul at the low quality and slow output of the initial catalogue titles by a handful of studios. As studios came on board, we saw more great catalogue titles and new releases in OAR and 16x9 compatibilty, as the format grew in popularity.
Then something went wrong.
DVD beacme popular. Not just with Home Theater enthusiasts, but with the general public - J6P (Joe Six-Pack). The influx of DVD into such bottom feeders as Blockbuster Video and WalMart made the general public aware of a high quality home theater product that was becoming more and more financially within their grasp. DVD was no longer a a blessing to the HT enthusiast, it was "jumping the shark" and becoming popular, and we cheered as hardware sales shot through the roof.
And what has happened as a result of it? The general public has grown to despise the core of the DVD - the widescreen picture, designed for the future widescreen TV and HDTV. Those who knew of the purpose of videos being presented in their original aspect ratio (OAR) were suddenly being berated by those who were confused and downright pissed off at those back bars robbing them of their television screens, even though it was something they were exposed to everyday in many television commercials.
As Roger Meyers, chairman of Itchy & Scratchy, said, "The screwballs have spoken!". The studios who created films in widescreen to meet the future of television have been browbeaten into living in its past by those who don't like the black bars, in spite of attempts by the internet community and HT enthuiasts at large (who DVD was originally designed for) to educate them.
It makes me harken for the days of laserdisc, when there was a certain feeling of pride in owning a film in a visual presentaion that enthusiasts understood and demanded, and which studios went out of their way to provide, even creating mammoth collector's editions for those who wanted every piece of behind the scenes material that could be included, at considerable expense (and mass) to the laserdisc title in question. It was amazing to see laserdisc special editions with expanded content which sold for up to a couple hundred dollars suddenly be made available for $30 dollars or less (a welcome relief to my wallet), and it saddens me that J6P likes this idea (and probably don't even know what a laserdisc is/was), but can't get over the dislike of the shape of a movie because it doesn't match the shape of their television.
We defeated the Pay-per-view DVD model, DIVX, because we targeted one corporation. However, since then, our numbers have been dwarfed by J6P and their resulting opinions that lead to "market research" decisions that threaten the very future of DVD as we know it. It is a fight we may not win.

Damn, I hate what is happening to my Home Theater

 

[Ricardo C]

Well, if this isn't the icing on the cake (or the flies on the turd, if you will.)

That clinches it. No Disney product for me AT ALL (save for properly presented -OAR and 16x9 enhanced- DVD), until all releases are available in at least both formats (though I'd much prefer OAR-ONLY.) This includes no rentals, no purchases, and no memorabilia. NOTHING. Oh yeah... That trip to Disneyland I was planning? Guess I'm going to Vegas now.

I guess they don't want my money anymore.

 

[PhilipG]

Well, my wallet will be relieved. And it will be a good time to collect all the old 4x3 films and TV product before the studios stupidly "realize" we want widescreen (as opposed to OAR) and start pan/scanning those for 16x9. I can hear the marketting b/s now: "widescreen is the future, and most people have widescreen tv's and demand anamorphic content. But don't worry, our technicians will only remove redundant data from the top and bottom of the 4:3 frame - and if necessary we will slightly squeeze the image, but 99.9% of videophiles won't notice that".

There's one problem I see with pan/scan discs: they are marked "Full Frame", which is usually a complete misnomer. They should be marked "Cropped Frame".

The solution isn't both versions on one disc. The solution is electronic pan/scam, or 2-disc packs like Shrek. We know that a) 2-disc packs always sell well, and b) DVD replication costs are now cheaper than ever. My suggestion:

disc a) OAR with commentaries/isolated score

disc b) pan/scam with all featurettes, documentaries and other bit-rate consuming extras.

 

[Ricardo C]

Well, my wallet will be relieved. And it will be a good time to collect all the old 4x3 films and TV product before the studios stupidly "realize" we want widescreen (as opposed to OAR) and start pan/scanning those for 16x9. I can hear the marketting b/s now: "widescreen is the future, and most people have widescreen tv's and demand anamorphic content. But don't worry, our technicians will only remove redundant data from the top and bottom of the 4:3 frame - and if necessary we will slightly squeeze the image, but 99.9% of videophiles won't notice that".

GREAT point. That's one of my big fears for the future. I hope they're getting the point that we want ORIGINAL ASPECT RATIO, not for everything to be reformatted to widescreen.

 

[Tom Rhea]

Would it help to get the hardware manufacturers involved in this, assuming that was possible? It seems like the people who spend the most on hardware are also the people who would want a properly presented movie. I'm sure 90% of the people at HTF have spent more than I have, what with my modest set up, but even I have spent money on two new televisions and five dvd players since 10/99. If I didn't care about widescreen, I would have stayed with VHS. If P&S becomes standard, I sure as hell won't be spending my money on new, upgraded equipment to watch hacked up movies.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Disney is doing the correct thing. A business exists to make money, period.

Not according to Walt Disney. He started his "business" to bring magic to children and adults everywhere. That was his goal. Making money was something that served to accomplish this goal, not sacrifice it.

 

[Lars Vermundsberget]

You are quite right, DaViD, but Walt himself is long gone...

 

[DaViD Boulet]

So let's *remind* Disney that *we* haven't forgotten. At the same time we can remind them that *we* by many many DVDs which earn them $$$

 

[Jon_Are]

Not according to Walt Disney. He started his "business" to bring magic to children and adults everywhere. That was his goal. Making money was something that served to accomplish this goal, not sacrifice it.

Probably true, David. Let's all write Walt and tell him what his company's been up to.

What's that?

He's dead?

Never mind.

Jon

 

[Eric Peterson]

There's one problem I see with pan/scan discs: they are marked "Full Frame", which is usually a complete misnomer. They should be marked "Cropped Frame".

I feel this way about all of the terminology that the studios use. If this is what everyone supposedly wants, why do they have to be so vague? I didn't know for years what the warning at the beginning of movies meant. If they would have said "The sides of the movie have been removed to fit your screen", I would have immediately known what they meant. It's as though they're trying to sneak this past everyone and then since most people don't know any better and continue to request what they're used to seeing, they keep on modifying the movies. I think that if you honestly were to do a survey on the street most people would think that widescreen is removing the top and the bottom of the movie and have no idea what the warning means at the beginning of VHS tapes. It's amazing how many people I have heard say this. Do they think that we are all masochists that don't want to see the entire movie?

It's obvious that the studios aren't going to educate the people so it's up to us to start posting fliers and leaving cards at stores, and if it doesn't work, at least we can't say that we didn't try.

 

[Dmitry]

That trip to Disneyland I was planning? Guess I'm going to Vegas now.

Ricardo, thanks for the idea! I was going to take my nieces to Disneyland, but I guess we'll go to San Diego animal park instead.

 

[Tony_Faville]

I have sent in my complaints and my requests in defense of OAR but I just thought of something. How many of us have called Disney, or any studio for that matter, thanking them for releasing titles in their OAR?

Sure, we are all fast to fire off an email telling them how upset we are with their P&S releases but how often do we stop to thank them for the titles we have received that are OAR? Sure, we buy them but since they apparently don't care about the revenue we generate for them with our OAR purchases, maybe we should tell them.

Just a suggestion.

 

[Bryant Frazer]

But the studios have always had the power. It is their product. They, and they alone, call the shots as to how they release their product.

Wrong. Studios like AOL Time Warner and Disney World Megalith Inc. are corporations first, answerable to their shareholders. The home video divisions of these behemoths will always be called on the carpet to improve margins and efficiencies, and if the orders they are getting from retailers like Wal-Mart and Target indicate that it's more profitable to release certain titles in full-screen only, then that's what they are obligated to do.

Frankly, another factor working against us is the reluctance of directors to insist on proper letterboxing of their films. If Woody Allen could ensure that his Manhattan would never be released on video or shown on television without letterbox bars (which he did), than someone like George Lucas or Steven Spielberg certainly could have arranged for the Star Wars or Indiana Jones films to be widescreen only since day one. Their silence on the issue must be read as a tacit endorsement of the practice of panning and scanning -- and they're setting the trends in Hollywood.

Folks, mass-market retailers account for most home-video sales in this country. Therefore mass-market practices are, by necessity, going to influence decisions being made at the home-video divisions of the studios. My recommendation would be to avoid shopping for movies at mass-market retailers whenever possible. (This is why I have never given Blockbuster any of my money.) If a majority of your retail customers won't even consider buying a certain product (say, a widescreen version of Snow Dogs), then it's difficult to justify going to the expense of authoring and marketing a separate SKU of that title. Better you should apply those same resources to authoring and marketing a disc of another title that the big boys will be interested in ordering from you in large quantities.

I'm not defending the practice. I will not watch a movie in pan and scan. Happily, I find more than enough titles that I'm interested in seeing from widescreen hard-liners like Criterion, Anchor Bay, New Line, Synapse, Kino, Image and Elite, all of whom are more worthy of my money than Disney.

-bf-

 

[Rain]

How many of us have called Disney, or any studio for that matter, thanking them for releasing titles in their OAR?...maybe we should tell them.

I thought of this as well.

All the while most studios were supporting OAR and we stayed relatively quiet, leaving the other side free to make a fuss about the "black bars." Undoubtedly part of the reasons the studios underestimate our demographic is because they are not aware that OAR is the main reason we've been generally pleased for so long.

Due to our silence, I'm sure they assume that we will go along with P&S if that is all that is offered (or that most of us will).

I included mention of this very fact in my correspondences to both Columbia and Disney.