More bad news for OAR enthusiasts (1 Viewer)

[Simon Basso]

My apologies that this is not strictly dvd related, but the OAR enthusiasts, such as myself, look here more than the tv programming forum.

On the BBCi website, BBC4 forum, a representative from the broadcaster replied to a query about the standard practice of zooming 2.35 films to fit a 16:9 ratio:

"Thanks for the comments - We (both the BBC and Programme Acquisition) take enormous care in preparing our films for transmission, and these matters are never approached without a great deal of thought about all issues arising.
16:9 is a perfectly valid format for showing widescreen film on television - it is an industry-standard, approved for television by film distributors and directors alike, and we feel that the viewer is presented with the best possible format for viewing films on television.

People will never wholly agree on the issue of 2.35:1 vs 1.88:1, but I sincerely believe that - in 99% of cases - television presentation of a film is more enjoyable and rewarding in 1.88. I watched Victor/Victoria last night on Turner, and the full 2.35:1 presentation was so narrow and off-putting that the slight increase in picture at the extreme edges of the frame in no way made up for the tiny strip of actual picture on screen - even on a relatively big full-frame TV."

*Please note I have removed a paragraph where he deals with the specific charge of a decline in BBC standards since the switch to digital, as it was not relevant*

So there you go. Most of us agree that chopping the edges off is the way to go apparently. I did point out to the chap that if he thought like that he should be fired, director's vision etc., but he has yet to reply. A less incensed contributor asked him if The Wild Bunch, which was run last Saturday, was "more enjoyable and rewarding" with dialogue coming from nowhere because the actors were at the extreme edges of the frame? No reply as yet.

 

[David Ely]

the full 2.35:1 presentation was so narrow and off-putting

Okay .... ummmm .... ya .... I'm completely speechless.

 

[Bjorn Olav Nyberg]

Pretty scary thought that people like this work in television and has the potential to make decisions that again affect other people to accept something as normal without making their own informed decision.

the full 2.35:1 presentation was so narrow and off-putting that the slight increase in picture at the extreme edges of the frame in no way made up for the tiny strip of actual picture on screen

Of course I realize he is probably twisting facts to argue his own pre-determined conclusion, but it always surprises me in such arguments the disregard for proportions. On the edges the difference is supposedly minimal, but this minimal difference is supposed to create huge differences mid-sreeen?

 

[Brian McHale]

I agree this is scary, but it shouldn't be unexpected. As widescreen TVs become more commonplace, I don't think there's any question we're going to start seeing 16x9 P&S or cropping of the wider aspect ratios.

 

[TonyD]

I agree this is scary, but it shouldn't be unexpected. As widescreen TVs become more commonplace, I don't think there's any question we're going to start seeing 16x9 P&S or cropping of the wider aspect ratios.

this is already going on.

if you watch hbo-hd ypu will see this for almost every movie that comes on that channel.

 

[Lars Vermundsberget]

The only thing good about this is probably the fact that 16:9 is a better compromise (lesser evil) than 4:3 for most movies.

 

[Jan Strnad]

Well, cropping to 16:9 may be a lesser evil than cropping to 4:3, but it also means that we'll more often get the "compromise choice" of cropped 16:9 where we would have gotten true OAR.

IOW, there's a significant difference between a 2.35:1 film aspect and 4:3 TV aspect, so a real choice has to be made; 16:9 will seem to many people as an acceptable compromise, which won't please OAR enthusiasts.

Jan

 

[Patrick McCart]

Yeah...Ben-Hur looks so poorly composed with all that extra junk on the sides.

 

[Jeffrey Gray]

Personally, I don't think we're ever going to get our way regarding OAR of wider-than-16:9 films on HDTV/widescreen TV...movies have almost always been cropped for TV throughout the history of film on TV, and it will probably remain that way for the foreseeable future...sad, but true.

The state of OAR on DVD is one thing...the state of OAR on TV is another...you think it's bad that the studios are releasing a few films to DVD without the option of OAR? Compared to the way film is treated on television, we're being PAMPERED when it comes to DVD...

 

[Steve_Tk]

I wish there were 2.35:1 aspect ratio TVs. When you watched a 16:9 movie you had black bars on the side. Far more of my movies are 2.35

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

I wish there were 2.35:1 aspect ratio TVs. When you watched a 16:9 movie you had black bars on the side. Far more of my movies are 2.35

But then 4x3 media has huge black bars. 16x9 is a median aspect ratio, which strikes a nice balance between Academy ratio and scope. It doesn't further your point to state your feelings based on your own induvidual wants, either. Give the rest of us a reason to want 2.35:1 televisions.

 

[Anders Englund]

Give the rest of us a reason to want 2.35:1 televisions.

Here's one: That would be so cool.
--Anders

 

[Lanny_B]

I hate when stupid people are in charge.

 

[Sean Aaron]

That is annoying, but I do see 2.35:1 framing on some channels. Hell, it could be like the US where you get half the film cut out for commercials or edited for language/content. At least we can _watch_ films on tv here in the UK where in the States there's really no point they are so mutilated. You do get some content editing at times in the UK, but it's quite minimal compared with USA.

Germany seems equally bad for content. I was in a hotel in Reading and turned on the German Sky channel in the hotel and caught some of Halloween III; every single violent scene was excised -- and this isn't that violent a movie, either! It was hilarious to see ads for Freddy's New Nightmare on during commercial breaks -- what could possibly be left of film after the censors got done with it?

 

[Mark_vdH]

I recently picked up the UK/R2 DVD of Gosford Park (OAR = 2.35:1). While it has the same special features as the R1 version (probably also the reason I didn't check the AR), when I put it in my player, I found out it was cropped to 1.78:1.

 

[James Reader]

I recently picked up the UK/R2 DVD of Gosford Park (OAR = 2.35:1). While it has the same special features as the R1 version (probably also the reason I didn't check the AR), when I put it in my player, I found out it was cropped to 1.78:1.

Not that this is a valid excuse Mark, but the R2 PAL Gosford Park has had the matte opened up futther than the original cinema presentation and the R1 release. There is not cropping on the R2 DVD.

Still, the wrong decision was made!

 

[Mark_vdH]

Not that this is a valid excuse Mark, but the R2 PAL Gosford Park has had the matte opened up futther than the original cinema presentation and the R1 release. There is not cropping on the R2 DVD.

Thanks for that info.
I had already seen it in the cinema so I knew it was a 2.35:1 movie, and when I put the DVD in my player I quit watching after 5 seconds or so....
BTW: In the Netherlands, recent releases of Memento and Kundun were cropped to 1.78:1. I can't understand a company that releases a niche movie like Kundun in a 2-disc S.E. with DTS, but then decides to crop it to 1.78:1.

 

[DeeF]

Here's a positive thing:

DVDs are being released widescreen and fullscreen, presumably to sell more to people with 4:3 televisions.

But no DVDs are being cropped from 2:35 to 1:78. There are no DVDs that you can buy this way (I don't think).

It's either AOR, or it's pan and scan for full screen.

Only on HBO are movies being altered for 16:9, and in some cases, it just involves opening up the mattes.

So, anybody with a 16:9 screen seems to have an appropriate choice.

 

[Bjorn Olav Nyberg]

But no DVDs are being cropped from 2:35 to 1:78. There are no DVDs that you can buy this way (I don't think).

Yes, there are a few R1 DVD's as well, Judgment night and Turbulence

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Hell, it could be like the US where you get half the film cut out for commercials or edited for language/content. At least we can _watch_ films on tv here in the UK where in the States there's really no point they are so mutilated. You do get some content editing at times in the UK, but it's quite minimal compared with USA.

I watch many OAR movies on cable, including true high-definition OAR. How is the HD over there?
And my movies aren't sped up.
And more of my movies aren't edited in ALL formats like over there.
Nyaaaah, nyaaah, nyaaaah. Let's have a pissing contest. :rolleyes