MOD Programs: The Official HTF "Pros & Cons" Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[shoeshineboy]

I admit to having bought a bootleg once -- get smart series @ half the price time-life was originally selling it for. At the time i was pretty ignorant of the whole dvd vs dvd-r thing and got stuck with some discs that, besides the bad karma, looked ok (tho the set was obviously less than what time-life was offering). As i rolled through the series i'd notice that some discs would skip, others would freeze. It wasn't long before I was calling up time-life for the real magilla (before the real price drop). That was the one and only illegal purchase i can recall making and i regret it, not just because of the money.

I'm sure warners has some quality control and have pushed the technology to where the product is much greater than that knock-off. And while I'd dearly love to have a lot of those movies since rolled out by the archive, i can't go there. So much of my purchases of old, more and slightly obscure titles involved blind buys. I'd buy a dvd boxset if 1/2 the movies i knew were aces and take the rest as a bonus; i'd grab a single pressed disc of a unfamiliar title based on word of mouth, stars and/or price. Right now, dvd-r and its price point and difficulty getting it here in Canada stacked the deck. I'm more than happy just to keep encourage the smaller companies like Timeless, VCI, Shout and Image with my money for now.

And i agree, it's great to hear sensible discussions over this issue in a respectful manner. At times i've crossed the line but understand fully what a great hobby we are all interested in.

 

[Colin McGuigan]

Originally Posted by Thomas T

It's not the transfers that bugs 'em, it's that they're MOD, and not pressed.

Of course that's the problem. The transfers and the masters used can be good or bad as was always the case with proper pressed discs. When a poor transfer was put out it was rightly criticised.

The real sticking points are the media, the pricing and the availability issues (especially for overseas buyers). Personally, I dislike the whole exclusivity buzz of the program; the fact that some movies (and they're not all total obscurities either) are about to become the preserve of a mere handful of hardened collectors is anathema to me.

 

[smithb]

Originally Posted by Livius

It's not the transfers that bugs 'em, it's that they're MOD, and not pressed.

The real sticking points are the media, the pricing and the availability issues (especially for overseas buyers).

[/QUOTE]

I think there is also another potential issue. If it was purely about content being released on MOD or not at all then I think there would be less concern. However, with higher pricing to the consumer, less remastering, and less risk for studios, who is to say that they won't start pushing more and more content this direction that normally would have been on pressed releases in the past. I'm sure current content and the most well known to the general public will still be profitable enough to do in large runs to remain on pressed media, but what about all those lesser known titles that now could potentially go the MOD route in the future.


I know for myself that I have discovered some great films/TV shows from the past through blind-buys of various collection sets (film-noir, gangster, actor-based) where each film ended up costing under $7 on pressed media. In some cases, what I initially would have thought were the weak links to some of these sets became my favorites (e.g., Fountainhead in a Gary Cooper Collection, Petrified Forrest in a Gangster Collection). Thus, leading me down more paths of other discoveries and more blind-buys.


Out of a 1000+ films and 300+ TV seasons, I would say 50% is now pre-60's content (before I was born). Without a cost structure condusive to blind-buys on a budget and confidence in how the media is constructed so that I can stockpile for future years viewing, I never would have ended up with the collection I have.


I own about a dozen MOD releases of films I truly wanted but figured would never come out any other way. I expect I will buy more over time. But my buying practices with MOD will never come close to how I appraoch pressed media. I just hope MOD stays to just that content we would never see any other way and doesn't become the norm for all lesser known titles.

Thread Title: Based on the comments so far in this thread, I would say a more accurate title would be the "Pro's and Con's of MOD Program's" instead of a complaint thread. To be a complaint thread I would not expect to see any positive comments about the MOD program. However, I do thnk having a thread to discuss MOD programs in general is a good idea. Too many times individual threads discussing particular MOD content gets derailed by philosophical differences of opinion about the program itself. This way any discussion not pertaining to the actual content of a MOD release can be redirected here.

 

[Bob Cashill]

Given the all-but-nonexistent pressed DVD release WB gave to the excellent ME AND ORSON WELLES (a recent favorite I had to purchase through the Amazon Marketplace) I wish it had been a MOD, so more people could see it. The Paramount titles through Olive aren't particularly well-marketed, either. At least the MODs you can get at any time...if you know they're there to get, as their marketing can be problematic, too.

 

[SWFF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by smithb
Thread Title: Based on the comments so far in this thread, I would say a more accurate title would be the "Pro's and Con's of MOD Program's" instead of a complaint thread. To be a complaint thread I would not expect to see any positive comments about the MOD program. However, I do thnk having a thread to discuss MOD programs in general is a good idea. Too many times individual threads discussing particular MOD content gets derailed by philosophical differences of opinion about the program itself. This way any discussion not pertaining to the actual content of a MOD release can be redirected here.

You're right, I changed the title. It would be far-fetched to think every post on this thread would be a complaint. You're post there opened my eyes to that error. Let me know if the new title works for all of you.

 

[shoeshineboy]

FROM one of those ubuquitous MOD posts on another thread...


"The 6 titles that I have purchased so far have been first rate,

as they all seem to be remasters they are far superior to the Warner Archive

product which is pretty good anyway!



Of the titles already purchased I can highly recommend the following:



CONQUEST OF COCHISE

A must for Fifties Western fans,gorgeous colour and quiet lavish for a

Sam Katzman production.Inter-racial relationships are handled with sensitivity

for the era.William Castle does throw in a rather graphic torture scene as well

which looks like it could have caused problems for the censor at the time.



ARIZONA RAIDERS

A beautiful scope transfer of one of Audie Murphys better Sixties Westerns.

Very violent for its time one can see why Tarantino is such a huge William

Witney fan.



THE LONG HAUL

A combination of Film Noir,Trucker Thriller and Kitchen Sink Drama.

Beautifully shot and directed and an absolute must for fans of Diana Dors.

Very moody in stunning black & white scope;film is pretty grim and downbeat.



The new batch has some interesting titles and some very obscure Westerns

which I shall be ordering soon. I am also interested in the rarely seen Joseph

H Lewis swashbuckler "The Swordsman"



For all the complaints about these MODs the upside is that we are getting a whole

raft of films that would have never made it to DVD."



I love statements like that last one -- can't be proven and is only used to shut down discussions.

Over the past 10 years or more, there have been plenty of obscure, B-films and tonnes of just plain crappy films released. I'm not saying the above films fit those categories, just to note that a statement of "a whole raft of films that would have never made it on DVD" is full of bollocks.

If the model of mass releasing of new DVDs was still via the pressed tried-and-true method, all the above could have and probably would have been released sooner than later. Some in better editions than what is being offered now, but that is neither here nor there. It may not have been released this year, it may have been released 4 years from now. But if the companies could make a profit off it and there was a sellable print available, the movie would be released.


There are plenty of rational reasons to trump the dvd-r knockoff means which is the apparent wave of the future... It has allowed major product holders like Warners the chance to release hundreds of classics in a short time span; it has taken one of the middleman out of the picture re. distribution; it has helped weeded out the 'collector' business by chasing away those pesky types who insist on the use of durable and reliable technology in the format; it has also returned ownership and profits to the artists -- oh, right, that's not why they have turned to DVD-rs -- it's about having a greater control over the marketplace, reducing the amount of in-stock product so that the marketplace no longer carries much weight when it comes to price point... Sort of how Big Oil controls the levers at the gas pumps... Just don't toss this fallacy out there. Save 'Never' for the likes of London After Midnight and the complete, uncut Magnificient Ambersons...

 

[JimmyT]

For those that mainly have issues with the cost of MOD, here's something that may interest you. Warner Archive is currently running a Black Friday Sale (that ends on Monday 11/29). Buy 5 single disc Warner Archive DVDs for $50 w/ free shipping. After you choose 5 discs, the discount is reflected in your shopping cart.

$10 a disc isn't too bad. This sale ends Monday, November 29th

 

[Bob Cashill]

"If the model of mass releasing of new DVDs was still via the pressed tried-and-true method, all the above could have and probably would have been released sooner than later. Some in better editions than what is being offered now, but that is neither here nor there. It may not have been released this year, it may have been released 4 years from now. But if the companies could make a profit off it and there was a sellable print available, the movie would be released."


More conjecture. "I love statements like that last one -- can't be proven and is only used to shut down discussions." Pot calling kettle! I mean, there are films I now own that never made it to VHS or LD, and I wasn't holding my breath to see them on DVD now or four years or 12 years from now on a pressed disc. Long ago, or so it would seem, the companies decided there wasn't much of a market for a good chunk of their holdings and acted accordingly, which is to say, did nothing. For all their problems--and I do have issues with MODs, like the unplayable disc of SARATOGA TRUNK I received yesterday--they are a response to film buffs.

Then again four or 12 years from now this entire discussion will likely be moot. Netflix's embrace of Instant Streaming last week--they got me to change to it, by raising the price on my DVD plan while offering unlimited rentals for a relative song, practically begging you to switch--may well come to be seen as the killer blow to the whole kit and kaboodle, pressed and MOD. Goodbye red envelopes, goodbye DVD?


But before that happens this Black Friday sale is an excellent way to check out the Warner Archive. If your chief objection is price, that objection has been temporarily addressed. It may augur more cuts in the future.

 

[ChuckWL]

Originally Posted by Bob Cashill


"If the model of mass releasing of new DVDs was still via the pressed tried-and-true method, all the above could have and probably would have been released sooner than later. Some in better editions than what is being offered now, but that is neither here nor there. It may not have been released this year, it may have been released 4 years from now. But if the companies could make a profit off it and there was a sellable print available, the movie would be released."


More conjecture. "I love statements like that last one -- can't be proven and is only used to shut down discussions." Pot calling kettle! I mean, there are films I now own that never made it to VHS or LD, and I wasn't holding my breath to see them on DVD now or four years or 12 years from now on a pressed disc. Long ago, or so it would seem, the companies decided there wasn't much of a market for a good chunk of their holdings and acted accordingly, which is to say, did nothing. For all their problems--and I do have issues with MODs, like the unplayable disc of SARATOGA TRUNK I received yesterday--they are a response to film buffs.

Then again four or 12 years from now this entire discussion will likely be moot. Netflix's embrace of Instant Streaming last week--they got me to change to it, by raising the price on my DVD plan while offering unlimited rentals for a relative song, practically begging you to switch--may well come to be seen as the killer blow to the whole kit and kaboodle, pressed and MOD. Goodbye red envelopes, goodbye DVD?


But before that happens this Black Friday sale is an excellent way to check out the Warner Archive. If your chief objection is price, that objection has been temporarily addressed. It may augur more cuts in the future.

And then there is Ultraviolet. Stay tuned for CES 2011. MOD plays well with UV.


Also I believe I am a movie collector not a format collector. Does not matter what format as long as I have the option to purchase which most of the services out today and proposed allow the collector to do.

 

[SWFF]

Ever since I learned of your existance Sarah, this question has been burning inside me something fierce, and I gotta get it off my chest. Your avatar, is that a picture of you, or just some sexy pic you threw up there. Just curious.

 

[Bob Cashill]

Sarah, agreed.


Shawn, this is your topic. Please try to stay focused.

 

[mdnitoil]

The 5 for 50 sale is a nice start, but I ended up passing. Instead, I was able to score the Kim Novak Collection for $25, and both the Universal Boris Karloff Collection and the Rock Hudson Screen Legends Collection for $11 each. That makes a grand total of 15 movies on pressed discs with extras for less than $50. Until I've exhausted all the pressed disc options, I just can't find a good reason to throw money at MODs. Particularly when, by definition, MOD titles don't go out of print.

 

[SWFF]

I am focused, man! I am focused!. It's just you don't normally find smokin' hot chicks who are died in the wool movie collectors, especially of the genre flick variety. At least, not in the circles I travel in, which, as I see now, are severely lacking in many departments.


Okay, I'm outta here, since this isn't normally a thread I like to weigh in on.





This dancing banana is killing me!


Sheer brilliance, I say.

 

[shoeshineboy]

Tell you what. I'll give you the list of dvd-rs i want. You pay for them and ship them to me -- because warner archives won't ship to canada. I'll reimburse you. and when i have discs to return because they won't play on my players, i'll ship them back to you and you can deal with the dealer, ok?

I didn't think so. Meet irritant #12... (for those who call me irritant #1, let me introduce you to my bigger brother...)...


I do agree, the sale price is a major concession to those who may have only issues with the price. That was just one of my qualms, however.

Originally Posted by JimmyT

For those that mainly have issues with the cost of MOD, here's something that may interest you. Warner Archive is currently running a Black Friday Sale (that ends on Monday 11/29). Buy 5 single disc Warner Archive DVDs for $50 w/ free shipping. After you choose 5 discs, the discount is reflected in your shopping cart.

$10 a disc isn't too bad. This sale ends Monday, November 29th

 

[jdee28]

Once you buy them, do you treat the MOD discs differently than the pressed discs you buy?


I know I do. I'm less inclined to hold onto a MOD disc after viewing it, especially if the picture quality is subpar.

I think they are more suited as rentals than collectibles/ keepsakes.

 

[MichaelEl]

Originally Posted by mdnitoil
Until I've exhausted all the pressed disc options, I just can't find a good reason to throw money at MODs.

Many pressed DVDs have gone OOP, so you have to buy those now or forget it. There are also lots of Blu-Rays of classic films now available, and those discs are often half the price of a MOD DVD-R. Movie collectors are clearly being pulled in three diffferent directions, and it's really hard to know how to divide your money among the three different formats. It's obvious that MOD is the least cost-effective, as it gives you the worst image quality and the fewest titles for a given amount of money. On the other hand, who's to say when those titles might be put back in the vault never to see the light of day again? At $10 a title, I wouldn't have a problem buying a lot of MOD discs, but I can't see paying Warner $26.70 (including tax) for the THE GREEN SLIME when I can get a beautifully mastered Blu-Ray of DR. STRANGELOVE from Amazon for $8.99, and have money left over for a couple more DVDs or BDs.

 

[Bob Cashill]

"As it gives you the worst image quality..." Debatable. And if you haven't gone Blu--and a number of collectors like myself haven't, for the redundancy factor of buying the same titles again and again--then it's a more manageable two-way split. In fact, given the relative paucity of interesting new product on pressed DVD, it's really one way with a few detours into Criterion, Shout!, etc. But obviously mileage varies on that count.

 

[Nebiroth]

Image quality is dependent on the print used, restoration (if necessary) and encoding. A burnt (MOD) disc is not inherently of lower quality simply because it is a burnt disc.

 

[MichaelEl]

Originally Posted by Nebiroth

Image quality is dependent on the print used, restoration (if necessary) and encoding. A burnt (MOD) disc is not inherently of lower quality simply because it is a burnt disc.

I know full well there's no quality difference between a pressed disc and a burnt disc containing the same data, but my understanding is that many - if not most - of these MOD titles were transferred from existing broadcast tape masters dating back to the 90s or even earlier. This is why, for example, some of the Warner discs begin with the Turner Broadcasting logo. Obviously those titles aren't going to look as good as a recent digital transfer, irrespective of print quality or encoding.


The few films that Warner has actually remastered are selling for $24.95, which combined with tax and shipping, takes you into the $30 range for a single disc purchase. I really don't see how they can justify such a stiff price given that many pressed DVDs and even Blu-Rays of classic films can be purchased for under $10. If they're going to insist on these prices, though, I think they should at least take the more popular MOD titles and package them together in pressed disc sets of 5 or 6 films for $20 or so, like Sony does with its Icons collections.

 

[JeffMc]

Originally Posted by MichaelEl

I think they should at least take the more popular MOD titles and package them together in pressed disc sets of 5 or 6 films for $20 or so, like Sony does with its Icons collections.

Considering Sony has now entered MOD in full-force, I doubt we'll see any more pressed Icons sets. I foresee CREATURES THE WORLD FORGOT and the other Hammers will now end up in their MOD program. Eventually, people will just have to accept, like it or not, that MOD is here to stay and the days of pressed DVD's of these older films by the studios are over. And constantly complaining about pricing is getting a bit old as all you have to do is wait for a sale. Warners just had a huge sale where you could get single-discs (including all the remastered ones) for $8 a piece with free shipping if you bought 10 and also used the coupon code. And if there weren't 10 titles you were interested in out of the 800 they have for sale, I guess you're not much of a fan of these films. I just bought 30 discs and am more excited about receiving any one of these titles more than I would ever care about a Blu-Ray of DR. STRANGELOVE.

I also agree with Bob. I'm not being pulled in three directions. I'm pretty much only buying MOD these days, with a few exceptions from some of the indie labels that are still hanging in there. I don't care about Blu-Ray. I have the movies I like and I don't need to upgrade anything and none of these obscure studio classics that haven't been released before will ever be on Blu anyway. I have most everything I want of the classics already released on pressed DVD. These MOD programs are a Godsend - 1,000 rare movies available in just over a year. Keep 'em coming!