MLB Hot Stove League 2006-2007 (1 Viewer)

[Mike Frezon]

If I was going to take a chance, as a general manager, on paying huge amounts of money to take a chance on this new Japanese pitcher and the scouts told me that this kid had every chance of being as successul in the majors as Hideo Nomo, I'd put the checkbook back in the desk drawer.

 

[Shane Martin]

Remember that Nomo wasn't paid the mega bucks this guy wants. Nomo was much less of a risk.

 

[Robert Crawford]

What does that have to do with what we were talking about in comparing Nomo to Irabu? Furthermore, I can't generalize how one pitcher will do in the ML versus another just because they are Japanese. Hopefully, the team that signs this guy has done their homework and feel he is worth the coin that's going to cost them to sign him and pay his club for his release.

 

[Evan M.]

I am trying to find the link but I read that Zito has said that he is veryinterested in coming to the NYY. I am sure part of this is because NY is known for overspending.

As for comparing Irabu and Nomo. Nomo had a solid career in the majors. I think Irabu was so over-hyped that it put way too much pressure on him. Couple that with playing in NY and he imploded. He had the tools but didn't have what it took "upstairs". Nomo, as mentioned was not really hyped at all. He just kind of snuck up and pitched very well. Once hitters figured him out though he was nothing more then a #4 pitcher in most rotations who could sneak up and win you 14 games....not bad, not great....but WAAAAY better than Irabu!!

Compare the stats for yourseves.....they are not even in the same league...

http://www.baseball-reference.com/i/irabuhi01.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/n/nomohi01.shtml

 

[Mike Frezon]

Three cheers to Guillermo Mota for not making lame excuses that he didn't cheat. Still a cheater, but , at least, not a lying, excuse-making cheater!

================================================


Robert: We seem to be experiencing some kind of disconnect on this. And, frankly, I can think of few things in baseball less worth debating than the careers of Hideki Irabu and Hideo Nomo.

In discussing the new Japanese prospect, Shane made the point that "Japanese pitchers aren't exactly a success story here. Nomo, Irabu and a few others come to mind."

You countered that Nomo had a share of success.

I disagreed, citing Nomo's numbers, that he was not successful.

You rebut again that Nomo had some success.

Referring back to Shane's original proposition that Japanese pitchers have had little success in MLB, I tried to put Nomo's career back in context of the discussion that if a scout said that the new prospect could be as successful as Nomo, I doubt a GM would be interested in him. And, THAT is what my comments had to do with the discussion-at-hand.

And, frankly, I don't think anyone here is generalizing about a pitcher's success based on being Japanese. I believe Shane and I are simply making the point that pitching prospects from the Japanese baseball leagues have, so far, had little success in the U.S. I believe it would be entirely based on the level of play in those leagues.

 

[Mike Frezon]

So, among AL Gold Glovers...shouldn't Michael Young have won at SS instead of Jeter?

And, the Red Sox infield:

Mike Lowell (3b) 6 Errors in 463 chances.
Mark Loretta (2b) 4 Errors in 639 chances.
Alex Gonzales (SS) 7 Errors in 475 chances.
Kevin Youkalis (1b) 5 Errors in 1108 chances.

= Zero Gold Gloves. :frowning:

 

[Robert Crawford]

I disagree with your last part except the mention of Irabu, who was a failure, but I don't think you've given the proper credit to some of those relievers that had good success over here nor to Nomo. Also, from the comments I read about this pitcher, his talent level is beyond Nomo's. Anyhow, I'm done with this subject matter.

 

[Shane Martin]

Saito of the Dodgers this year did a good job of closing but he is now demanding after 1 short year the same kind of money that top tier closers get so he'll likely head back to Japan. He's an exception rather than the rule and w/o seeing him pitch several years it's unknown whether he was a one hit wonder or not.

Suzuki & Matsui are diamonds in the rough for sure amongst great ballplayers who made the transition successfully at a high level. IF this guy wasn't demanding a monster contract, we wouldn't be having this discussion but he's wanting $10M a season at the low end(reportedly). Perhaps I overvalue pitching but 10M+ a season means the pitcher better be top tier.

Mike,
I guess we'll find out today about the national league gold gloves.

 

[Jason Seaver]

$10M/year is what Carl Pavano got. It is a real sellers' market.

 

[Mike Frezon]

I think I have, indeed, given proper credit to Nomo. His numbers speak for themselves.

======================================

Fransisco Loriano will miss the entire '07 season due to Tommy John surgery. Too bad for him and the Twins. What a rookie year that young man had.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Mike,
Since, I thought this part of the discussion was done with, if you're going to quote me, then please do so in its entirety. By quoting my last sentence first and separately, it looks like you're trying to make a particular point about me dropping this portion of the discussion.





Crawdaddy

 

[Shane Martin]

Maddux got his 16th gold glove today. No other Dodger was mentioned but other notables are Andruw Jones, Omar Vizquel, Scott Rolen, Pujols, Ausmus and more.

 

[Evan M.]

Not to add to the Japanese player debate but the Red Sox and Phillies are said to be very interested Akinori Iwamura. He is a 3rd baseman with a ton of power. Last year he hit around .300 with 32 HR and about 80RBI's. A few years ago he hit over 40 HR's. He is a lefty and is said to play 2nd and SS....although generaly corner IF's are lefties and SS and 2nd is righties. This could be a pretty big deal. He is only 27 and is probably the best position player in Japan right now. If the Sox can get a hold of him......Phillies are the frontrunner......then obviously Lowells days are numbered. It could be a good thing though as Lowell's stock right now will probably never be higher.

As for Liriano and his Tommy John surgery... I wish him a TON of luck. Although I hate the Twins he is a FANTASTIC pitcher and could have been the new face of the Twins franchise for years to come. When someone can throw the ball 97 and throw a 92 MPH slider....that is simply not fair.

 

[Jason Seaver]

Well, if he plays second, they could stick him there and put Pedroia at short.

 

[Shane Martin]

Pedro is saying that if his shoulder doesn't heal he'll hang it up. The Mets might be a player in the this years offseason looking for pitching I'd think.

 

[Mike Frezon]

But, unfortunately, the combination of a young arm with that kind of stuff too often leads to Tommy John surgery. :frowning:

 

[Brandon_T]

It's the way he throws the ball to me. He puts so much torque on his arm, much like Kerry Wood. Where guys like Schilling, Clemens and now guys like Verlander seem to have a very natural looking power pitch to them. I feel bad when guys have that surgery. He is going to have to re-learn to throw the ball.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Mike,
I didn't appreciate how you quoted me and I considered it bad form by you in doing so and I expected more from you. Furthermore, you were the one that first stated Nomo wasn't worth sidetracking this thread over so I made my last comments on that matter and clearly stated I was done with it so this thread could move forward from it. If you wanted to reply to those last comments then do so, I'll read them but I didn't want you to expect me to reply to them.

These days, I usually don't express my opinions on the forum as much for a variety of reasons. One of the reasons, my days of continuing a discussion to the very end when it's obviously apparent that no winner will emerge nor opinion changed are done with. I don't have the time nor inclination to do so any longer. Perhaps, I'm getting cranky in my old age, but I will chime in when I have something to say and back out when I believed my point was made, so if that's bad form then so be it.

Now, for the sake of this thread's purpose, this is my last word on this particular issue. If you want to respond to them then please do so. I'll read them, however, I will not respond to them publicly.






Crawdaddy

 

[Mike Frezon]

It's definitely played out, Robert. No hard feelings on my end.

Although I was a little surprised MLB didn't give Jeter an NL gold glove, too!

Remember that year they gave Palmiero a gold glove at 1B? I think he had played 15 games at the position that year?

 

[Shane Martin]

Liriano just needs to learn from Santana because those 2 pitchers are very similar to me.