MLB All-Star selections and game (1 Viewer)

[JoshF]

But he's certainly no more than an average defender, and most things I've read comparing SS defense by people without an axe to grind has Jeter well outside the elite - with the authors fairly surprised, since he does have that great reputation.

Do these people "without an axe to grind" happen to be writers for Boston papers?

 

[Jason Seaver]

No - Rob Neyer was one of the first to say Jeter's defense is over-rated, and it's almost (but not quite) taken as a given on sites like Baseball Prospectus or Baseball Primer.
Besides, have you ever read a Boston paper's sports section? If anything, they'd say the opposite (I'm convinced Dan Shaughnessey eats his own young).

 

[Robert Crawford]

 

[Ross Williams]

Does anybody know what time the game starts? I'm trying to plan a little get-together.

 

[Rich Romero]

Magglio Ordonez was snubbed. Also, voting really needs to get eliminated. Jason Giambi was selected to start first base for the AL? Paul Konerko or Mike Sweeney deserved the spot.

 

[Philip Hamm]

I cannot believe that Scott Rolen is starting at third base over Mike Lowell. Rolen is hitting .245 and Lowell is hitting .316 and has more home runs and RBIs. In my opinion Rolen shouldn't even be going to the all-star game and should. This proves that the fans know absolutely nothing.

Absolutely agreed. However, I can still be happy that two Phils will be starting.

 

[Tim Markley]

It's just too bad that Mondesi didn't get traded a couple of days earlier. He could have made the All Star team.
I stopped watching the All Star game a couple of years ago because it's a complete joke. The problem used to be with the fan voting but now I think that the manager's selections are worse than the fans. Robin Ventura over Eric Chavez??? Give me a break! Their numbers are very close except for the fact that Chavez is hitting 20 pts higher than Ventura. Over in the NL you've got 2 reserve catchers being chosen and they both suck. Why were Miller and Santiago chosen over Paul LoDuca, who's hitting .319??? Both of the 'starters' from Philadelphia are pathetic.
You're going to start seeing a lot more of the players opting to not go to the All Star game because it's not the 'honor' that it once was. A great tradition has been ruined. :frowning:

 

[Ralph Summa]

Jeter is a great player, granted. Of all the major sports baseball gives one the most opportunity to show individual talent, BUT Jeter has benefited by playing around much better players than the other guys have. Do you think Nomar would like to hit in front of the hitters Jeter had behind him year after year? Nomar hasn't had a hitter behind him since Mo Vaughn left after the 1998 season. Still, he hit .357 and .371 in 1999 and 2000 respectively with schmucks like Brian Daubach and John Valentin hitting behind him. It will be interesting to see how Nomar hits once Manny Ramirez is healthy.

Ralph

 

[Butch C]

Quote:

How many Yankee Devil Ray games have you watched there in Mass.? Or are you saying that Nomar has never made a regular season error? I thought you just argued that Nomar makes more risky errors so he's better?!? Dude, get your storys straight. As far as only being considered good because he makes the big play in the big game...isnt that the point? [rant]Ill concede the point...Jeter is only good in the Playoffs, World Series, and pennant Races...Nomar is better when his team is trailing by 4 in the 6th inning against Detroit!!!! You win!!![/rant]
I LOVE RED SOX FANS...THEY ARE THE WORST AT HIDING THERE SELF LOATHING...TELL ME THE TRUTH...YOU KNOW THAT THE SOX ARE FOLDING...SAY IT...SAY IT!!!!!!

 

[Wayne Bundrick]

Does anybody know what time the game starts? I'm trying to plan a little get-together.

No but it's on Fox so first pitch will be thrown at a time that feels like 1117 minutes after the start of their broadcast coverage.

 

[Ralph Summa]

Butch,



I won't sit here and argue with you that the Sox are a better team than the Yankees, and the Rangers are not a better team either. Since neither of those TEAMS have had the many playoff and World Series opportunities that the Yankees and Jeter have had, does that make Jeter better than A-Rod and Nomar? Your "logic" is attempting to imply that opinion as fact. Just because the Post printed it, doesn't mean it's necessarily a fact.

Ralph

 

[Jarrod_L]

I'm glad Adam Dunn got picked to be the Reds rep at the All Star game. He's really a superstar in the making (and I'm not just saying that b/c I'm a Reds fan...well, maybe )
He's got awesome power, can hit for average, and draws walks like Bonds...hopefully we'll be able to pay him enough to stay in Cincy when it comes to free agent time...

 

[JoshF]

Since neither of those TEAMS have had the many playoff and World Series opportunities that the Yankees and Jeter have had, does that make Jeter better than A-Rod and Nomar?

Pretty much, yes. Isn't that what they all play for? To win it all?

Oh... I forgot. Some players (*cough* A-Rod *cough*) play for themselves rather than for the team.

 

[Jason Seaver]

TELL ME THE TRUTH...YOU KNOW THAT THE SOX ARE FOLDING...SAY IT...SAY IT!!!!!!

Um, I know no such thing. They're a game out, have the two best pitchers in the AL this year, two or three of the best hitters, and put on a great show every night. The season's going to be fun, and there's sure as heck no reason to give up on it halfway through.

 

[Jason Seaver]

Since neither of those TEAMS have had the many playoff and World Series opportunities that the Yankees and Jeter have had, does that make Jeter better than A-Rod and Nomar?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty much, yes. Isn't that what they all play for? To win it all?

Well, I think most play to win that game, that night; do it enough and that adds up to "winning it all". Jeter has been fortunate enough to play on teams with more talent surrounding him than A-Rod or Garciaparra (and an owner who can afford to pay Jose Canseco a million dollars just to prevent a competitor from trading for him, for example).

Seriously, do you really think Jeter is a better ballplayer than A-Rod? And what makes you say A-Rod "plays for himself"? Because he took $25M/year when someone offered it? Who wouldn't? All I'm saying is that Jeter's rep is enhanced because he's in a good situation, which was created in large part because of things he didn't have a lot of control over.

 

[jeff lam]

I wouldn't say Arod plays for himself. He is building the Rangers around him and in several years I think they will be a contending team. With prospects like Mench, Blalock, Texeria, and many other youngsters, they have a great chance to be one of the best teams in the upcomming years. They just have to find the right pitching. Reds are the same. In a few years, I expect the rangers and reds to play in the series.

 

[Seth Paxton]

Well I have no beef with Sox fans, but I certainly think Jeter deserves his spot on the team, his year is outstanding and I think taking all the SS was a good thing.
As Seaver said, there just aren't any great 2B in the AL this year behind Soriano. So "loser" Jeter will probably take that spot. I expect Torre to approach him about it and Jeter, being the gamer that he is, will certainly do it.
You might think any guy would, but I guarantee that some players are afraid to look foolish by playing out of position. Heck, in the NL they are trying to decide on who will play CF.
But on to my feelings in general, I thought both rosters were good except for 1 AL mistake and 2 NL mistakes.
AL - no way in hell I put Ventura on the squad over Thome. No way. You have several SS who can move to 3B for an All-Star game.
BTW, I'm glad to see Damon go, he's having a hell of a year. And I should know, I drafted him onto both my fantasy teams this year, and thanks to some good projected stats that the other owners weren't aware of I was able to sneak him low in the draft.
NL - No way you take Damian Miller or Santiago. You take Lo Duca and Giles (with A. Jones getting added today).

 

[Seth Paxton]

Well I can't let Jeter bashing go by without pulling out some stats. I know you all would love to toss about subjective feelings and god forbid any dickhead like me put out some unarguable stats, but here they are anyway.
Leaving ARod out of it.
Jeter has more Runs and Hits than the other 4. He is well behind in 2B and 3B, though not way behind Vizquel in 2B and Tejada also has 0 3Bs. HRs he has 11 to the 15 of Tejada and the 10 of the other 2. K's are his biggest weakness this year and he is way behind in that stat which is no small thing.
His slugging is down due to the 2Bs primarily, but he has the highest OBP.
Jeter .383
Vizquel .381
Nomar .360
Tejada .344
However, Jeter is not a 3 or 4 hitter, he is a 1 or 2 type (though he has had about 20 games at #3 this year, far more though at 2 with a few at 1). His job is to score, not knock them in, which makes him more comparable to Vizquel in terms of offensive role. His RBI are lower due to this, not to mention that the guy hitting in front of him has 19 HR and 48 RBI. Not exactly leaving the ducks on the pond for him.
And on top of that, Jeter also steals bases. A LOT of bases. At this point he is 19 SBs to 1, that's 1, CS. An incredible SB PCT.
Now, effectively stealing a base makes a 1B into a 2B (or a BB into a 2B, but lets just stick with hits to keep it simple). Being caught removes the single (leaving the 3B CS out of it for simplicity). I realize this discounts any RBIs that you already knocked in, but it does go a long way toward getting yourself in scoring position.
So I took all 4 and subtracted 1 base from their TB for every CS and added 1 base for every SB. Suddenly Jeter's true offensive benefit starts to appear.
Vizquel has 12 SB but has also been CS'd 9 times. The other 2 basically don't run.
The new stats with SB and CS factored into actual final base production -
SLG
Jeter .500
Nomar .533
Vizquel .493
Tejada .493
OPS
Jeter .883
Nomar .893
Vizquel .874
Tejada .837
As for protection, give me a break, Tejada has Chavez (typically 4 and 5), Nomar has Ramirez (3 and 4), Vizquel had Burks (2 and 3) though Burks has tapered off. Viz could be protected by Thome a bit I suppose. But none are in a "weak" lineup, especially Nomar this year.
As for fielding, this is obviously Vizquel's strong point and he is far superior to the other three. His fielding PCT is way up there both this year and for the career. However, Jeter has the 2nd best fielding PCT.
Now we also have Range which is a bit trickier to put into stats. ESPN and Stats, Inc use a couple of "stats". One is Range Factor (Put Outs and Assists/Innings). Now that doesn't actually mean you have better range, just more total plays made for whatever reason. This is subject to the type of pitchers on your roster, lefty vs righty and fly ball versus ground ball.
Perhaps a better stat for that is Zone Rating which is the PCT of balls fielded that came into your "zone" as determined by Stats, Inc. A tad subjective, but I trust such judgements.
In both of these Jeter trails the other 4 this year. However his numbers are more down versus his career numbers than the others.
RF 2002 (career)
Jeter 3.76 4.15
Nomar 4.21 4.52
Tejada 4.44 4.74
Vizquel 4.35 4.68 (note Tejada being higher here, does he really have more range than Omar? Doubtful.)
ZR 2002 (career)
Jeter .816 .824
Nomar .830 .831
Tejada .799 .832
Vizquel .829 .852
So Jeter doesn't quite get to as many balls as the other guys, but then he also doesn't make as many errors either (except for Omar V). He plays it a bit more conservative for sure, but is he well below them in glove work? Hardly.
And the play against Oakland last year should remove any doubts on fielding smarts.
I'm not saying the other 3 shouldn't be there too. I'm just saying they are all equally strong, although slightly different types of SS. And that is why I was glad that Torre included Vizquel and Tejada, because let's be honest, it wasn't like Jeter was the SS on the bubble here. In this regard I thought Torre was dead on with how to handle it.
As I said in my previous post, Ventura is the eye sore here to me, not Jeter.

 

[Seth Paxton]

To be honest, I'd say Yankees fan are worse on this count. Yankees fans were nowhere to be found ten-fifteen years ago when their team wasn't doing well.

Jason, I was. And it sucked. But I still rooted. Especially being a Hoosier and loving Mattingly. I got hooked on baseball watching the Reds beat the Yanks (and in Indy when the Indians were the Reds AAA team, the Yanks were the underdogs). I mean in 76 it was a big deal just getting back to the WS after so long and I was hooked. By the time the amazing 78 season came along I was reading box scores every day, which only added fuel to being a Yanks fan.
And then the lonely 80's came which began a run of EVERY OTHER AL East team going to the WS into the 90's. Orioles, Brewers, Tigers, Red Sox, Blue Jays, Indians. Funny how your average fan in 98 was saying the Yanks always win. For me the 96 win was especially sweet after the long road (including the 95 heartbreak).
BTW, I have a love/hate relationship with the Sox. Love Fenway, love the logo/jerseys, love the history, and I've liked several Sox players (including Damon). But I still don't like Clemens and I wish the Yanks had never taken him. I was mad in 86 when Clemens got MVP over Mattingly after the precedent had been set with Rice getting it over Guidry. Stats comparisons show that Mattingly was even more favorably compared with Clemens than Rice had been against Guidry. But go figure on that one I suppose.
Anyway, glad the Sox are in the hunt and I hope it stays that way till the final weeks.
And on this side baseball note, nice job in picking teams to fold you MLB morons (Selig basically). Teams can never compete in small markets...except that EVERY YEAR a couple of them do. Twins have actually had a very nice run the last 15 years. And if the Expos hadn't been run like a clearing house they might have been better than the Yanks in the late 90's (just look at 94).
I am 100% behind REGULATED revenue sharing, meaning teams must SPEND THE MONEY ON THE ROSTERS, not pocket it. Well, I would include promotions and other fan generating expenses.

 

[MikeM]

Let's not forget one thing:

Eric.
Chavez.
Was.
Robbed.

How on earth does Robin Ventura make it over Chavez? On top of that, Chavez is the current Gold Glove holder at third base.

Torre seems like a class act, but when it comes to the All-Star selections, his team favoritism always seems to bring him down a few points in my book.