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Mitsubishi WS65711, Red push fix details?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by JerryHatchett, Jan 18, 2003.

  1. JerryHatchett

    JerryHatchett Stunt Coordinator

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    Just traded from a Toshiba 65" widescreen to a Mitsubishi WS65711 that I got a fab deal on. I've run the Video Essentials setup and other than the famed red push, picture quality is good, though certainly no better than the Toshiba. Would anyone care to share details on how to fix this issue? Someone mentioned an attenuator on the incoming red of the component feed. Can I buy such an attenuator, or if not, how do I make one?

    Thanks...

    Jerry
     
  2. JerryHatchett

    JerryHatchett Stunt Coordinator

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    Another question: The more I look, the more I see that the picture is definitely softer than the Tosh. Any way to crisp this thing up a bit, tighten the focus?

    Again, thanks...

    Jerry
     
  3. Mike Hamilton

    Mike Hamilton Stunt Coordinator

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    Attenuators are not a viable solution with regard to unaffected video performance, as their use will disturb the grayscale accuracy of your set.
    Having said that, short of getting the set corrected by a calibrator that utilizes the I2C software fix, it can be a tolerable remedy if you are not a particularily analytical viewer.
     
  4. BruceSpielbauer

    BruceSpielbauer Second Unit

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    Jerry:

    With all models, an attenuator can be a viable
    "fix" for the red push, but ONLY for any component inputs coming into your set. This means DVDs, a set top box (if you have one with component cables), some laser discs, etc. It does a terrific job, for these inputs, and can completely eliminate the red push (for these inputs).

    Beyond that, there are two possibilities.

    One some of the Mitsubishis, the "red push" can be fixed in the service menus. Easy, but caution is always advised, since accessing the service menu is technically a violation of the warranty, and one wrong move can result in disaster. There are places you can read up on the procedure, and I advice a lot of careful reading and caution first. This can be done for every input, so it is gone for good. If you prefer, an ISF calibrator can often fix this, if you would rather not.

    One some of the Mitsubishis, the "red push" cannot be fixed in the service menus. On these, the only complete solution is to perform something called "the I2C fix." It involves a special cable running from your set to a PC. You first back up your current EEProm settings to a disc on the PC; then you go in and chgange a few parameters; then, you "write" the new parameters back to the TV. If you prefer, an ISF calibrator can often perform this, if you would rather not. However, not all ISF cals will know how to do this, or have the experience, so ask first.

    I am not certain whether your set requires the I2C fix, or whether it can be fixed from the service menus. The general rule for the past two years has been, those with the built-in tuner could be fixed from the service menus. Thso without, had to have the I2C fix.

    If you need more specific direction, let me know.

    ==========

    You mentioned a soft picture. Where are your settings? (Sharpness, contrast, color, tint, etc.) Have you turned off all of the "extra" picture enhancements on your set, such as "Iris" and "black level enhancement"? Do you notice this "soft" picture on all sources, or just on some? DVDs/ All DVDs? Satellite, or Cable? And, how is your convergence? We may be able to help with this, as your set should NOT have a soft image, unless you are watching a source which has it already (some films do, on purpose, of course, to give a hazy, heavenly, "otherworldly" feel to them). You should not be seeing it as a general rule, though.

    -Bruce in Chi-Town
     
  5. Mike Hamilton

    Mike Hamilton Stunt Coordinator

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    Bruce said:
     
  6. BruceSpielbauer

    BruceSpielbauer Second Unit

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    Michael:

    >>> Grayscale is affected in Green with passive attenuators.
     
  7. Mike Hamilton

    Mike Hamilton Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi Bruce,
    The in-line attenuators are "passive", in that they are a non-electronic device. An external electronic fix would also work, if it were economically viable and one had the means to accurately adjust it (individual voltage attenuation of the Y Pr Pb channels).

    You are conceptually correct, in that the corrected image fidelity with passive attenuators will probably be preferred over the out of the box condition one must tolerate.
    My intention was to alert those who are striving for an accurate image to consider a proper fix as opposed to one with relative guess work attached.
     
  8. JerryHatchett

    JerryHatchett Stunt Coordinator

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    Thank, Bruce. Thanks, Mike.

    While I do plan to go with an ISF calibration, it may be a while. I don't think there's an ISF calibrationist in my whole state, much less my area, so it may take a while to get one here. I e-mailed one of the guys from here who is doing a "tour" but I'm not willing to pay $600 for a calibration.

    So I think I'd like to take a look at the attenuator as a temporary solution and would appreciate any details you can give me.

    As for the softness, yes, I'm sure. The first DVD I watched did indeed have some funky film effects in play. But I followed that up with ARMAGEDDON, which I had watched the night before on the Toshiba. Do understand that this is pretty subtle, but it's there. On the Toshiba, I could count old Billy Bob's whiskers in those closeups. That level of detail is not quite there on the Mits.

    Maybe I need to dig a little deeper in the manual, but thus far I haven't see a great deal of configuration available. On the Component-1 input, video controls available are the standard color, tint, brightness, contrast, sharpness, something called VSM sharpness which is an on or off setting, and color temperature. I'll keep looking to see if I can find any other auto stuff to turn off.

    Jerry
     
  9. Mike Hamilton

    Mike Hamilton Stunt Coordinator

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    Jerry,
    You might want to contact Walt Reardon. He is located in Biloxi and is ISF trained. Tell him that I referred you (no, there is no shared fee like other professions! [​IMG] ).
    He can be emailed at:
    [email protected]
     
  10. JerryHatchett

    JerryHatchett Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks much, Mike. Will drop him a note right now and see if he ever makes it up to my end of the state.

    Jerry
     
  11. JerryHatchett

    JerryHatchett Stunt Coordinator

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    And would still love to have the details on building or buying the attenuator as a temp fix. The reds are driving me nuts.[​IMG]
     
  12. Mike Hamilton

    Mike Hamilton Stunt Coordinator

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    Well it turns out I re-read your initial post and you have the XXX711 which does not require the I2C fix. It is adjustable in the service menu that is accessible. Other problems however, such as edge enhancement, do require the I2C address.
     
  13. JerryHatchett

    JerryHatchett Stunt Coordinator

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    Hmmm. Just got an e-mail from Walt, BTW. Pretty long and over my head but I'm going to read it and absorb it.

    Although I've never been into the service menu on a TV, I am very tech-savvy. How big a deal is it to go in and address this problem? Also, Walt mentioned that I may not be looking at a red push on this new a set, but rather the grayscale not being adjusted. That make sense?

    Thanks...

    Jerry
     
  14. Mike Hamilton

    Mike Hamilton Stunt Coordinator

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    Tech savvy and gambling are two different professions[​IMG]
    It is not so much the doing it as it is knowing what you are doing. It isn't a science that can be completely done by eye, and there are numerous potential land mines that can get you.
    Could you research this for a copious amount of time and experiment, coming up with a pleasing result? Of course.
    However, if your time is worth something, and you can't afford a disasterous mistake...it just might be worth it to have Walt in and observe. Then, once you see the methodology involved and perhaps engage Walt for some sidebar information, you might feel comfortable dabbling around yourself (after writing down all the parameters for a safe way back home!)
    Good luck in your decision!:b
     
  15. JerryHatchett

    JerryHatchett Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks again, Mike. The help is indeed appreciated. And I DO hope I can get Walt up here. (We're 320 miles apart.) Just trying to educate myself and figure out if there's a viable temp solution until I can get it properly calibrated.

    Jerry
     

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