Mini Austin meet at the Miniplex (1 Viewer)

[Jonathan DA]

Hey guys, thought I'd throw this out in case anyone else was interested. Mark and I are going to get together sometime in the next week or so and do some A/B tests and comparisons between his DLP and my CRT as well compare a DIY screen to a DaLite instatheater screen. I'm having some issues with various things in my theater and I'm trying to isolate some fixes. If anyone wants to join us just chime in. I'd be particularly interested in cajoling an L300U owner into bringing one over (Jeff, Chad, hint hint).

Things I want to investigate:
1. Motion Blur. When watching movies on my system images do not pan smoothly. It almost looks like either the CRT or the HTPC cannot keep up with the speed of the pan. Weird thing is it does it even on slow pans.

Solutions: If the HTPC is the problem I could get a Holo3D card or ditch the HTPC all together and go with a DVD player + scaler (probably a Lumagen). If the CRT is the problem then my only option would be to get a different projector, either another CRT or an FPD. Hence my curiosity about the Panasonic L300U and Sharp M20X.

2. Image isn't vivid enough. This could be one of three things: my calibration is off and needs to be fixed (I think my grayscale is messed up), I need a higher gain screen, or the CRT just can't put out enough light to satisfy me.

Solutions: Build the DIY optical comparator we discussed elsewhere. Compare Mark's 2.2 gain screen to my DIY screen to see if bumps out the brightness enough to satisfy me. Ditch the CRT for a bright FPD projector.

 

[Chad Anson]

Count me in. What type of screen material do you have? I've got some extra matte white material that I can bring along.

 

[Jonathan DA]

My DIY screen is blackout material painted with Behr Ultrawhite. Mark's screen is a 60x80 DaLite InstaTheater screen.

Is there a particular day next week that works best?

 

[Chad Anson]

Friday, Sat or Sunday. The rest of the week is pretty hectic. The following week is pretty wide open except Wed. night.

 

[Nils Luehrmann]

Doc,

Count me in if it is next week(end)!

As for #1, while 'motion blur' can be exaggerated by various elements in an HT system and can be caused by many things (and as such has many different names depending on what is causing the 'blur'). Unfortunately though, a lot of motion blur comes from the original source - film, which is notoriously bad at maintaining focus when the camera is being panned. So no mater how 'clean' your system might get, the best it can do is to reproduce a perfect copy of the original source.

As for #2, ah yes... unless you are willing to stack CRTs or move to a smaller, higher gain screen, then this is a sacrifice CRT users must endure for the benefit of those true blacks.

I would really be interested in helping build that optical comparator and I can bring my 12SF, PLAS-TEX sheet, and DVD test material.

 

[Hank Frankenberg]

Nils, this is significant, especially after Dr. T's *discussions* with you regarding his undying love for his analog tube FP and proclaiming it as supreme.

 

[Frederick_Falk]

I would be very interested in this comparison as I have the same questions to be answered. This Friday night I am booked but this weekend and most of next week is open for now. Just let us know a date and time.

 

[Jonathan DA]

How many times have I told you guys not take anything I say seriously unless it's about audio? However, I still stand by my statements that CRT FPs produce the best images I have seen. But that was a $30k projector with a $30k scaler in a solid black room. In my less than ideal environment it may be necessary to compromise, not to mention the fact that I don't have $60k to spend on a projection system.

Nils, refer to this thread over at AVS for a description of what I'm talking about. I'm not sure, but I think this may be what people refer to as "judder". I always notice the inherent blur captured on the film, however this seems different. I don't notice the same effect on other people's systems.

 

[Nils Luehrmann]

I'm not sure, but I think this may be what people refer to as "judder".

When I talk about 'judder' (AKA 'stutter') I am usually referring to the effect that the process of 3:2 pull-down has on panning shots where instead of a nice smooth transition, the picture 'judders' (this can be hardly noticeable or terribly distracting depending on how good a job the interpolator is doing with the type of source it is being fed). This is why in the theaters you wont see this artifact, but you will still see a form of 'motion blur' due to the limitations of film - as mentioned by some of the posts in your thread.

I do not know the effect various HTPCs have on 'judder/stutter', but it seems you were able to get the attention of some pretty knowledgeable people, particularly Dean Roddey. When we meet I'll be glad to help in any way I can, but my limited knowledge, let me correct myself, my complete lack of knowledge in HTPC configurations may cause more harm than good. :b

 

[Jeff Meininger]

If you're doing this sometime this coming week (after Memorial day), I'll be happy to come and bring the L300U in case Chad cannot.

BTW, Jonathan, YGM.

 

[Mark Hayenga]

When is this happening? I am in Bryan and will likely stay here until the 2nd unless I hear that something is happening this week....

 

[Jonathan DA]

I'm back in town now, so Friday night or Saturday night would work for me.

 

[Mark Hayenga]

This weekend is the last weekend my brother will be in town before he gets shipped off to New York for 4 months; any chance we can do it the week of the 2nd?

 

[Hank Frankenberg]

Dr. T, if you postpone until next weekend, I'm offering to host "Casablance" this Friday evening. See my post on the Movie Nights thread.

 

[Jonathan DA]

Ok, let's postpone till next week sometime. I'd love see Casablanca again, I'll try to be there on Friday.

 

[Jonathan DA]

Well, the RGB Input board went out on my CRT. Only $50 to fix it, but I'm taking it as a sign. As soon as it's fixed it's going on EBay. So I guess we don't really need to do the comparison after all. However, I still need to pick out a new pj, so Jeff or Chad, if you're willing, I'd like to swing by and take a look at an L300. I figure if it can handle Dark City then I'll be satisfied.

Is anyone else considering a new pj purchase by any chance? I have a friend at work who is thinking of purchasing an L300 too, and we're wondering if we could get a discount from a vendor if we bought 3 or 4 at once.

 

[Jeff Meininger]

You're welcome to come by and see the L300U. It's getting dark so dang late these days, though. If you want to do it on a weeknight, we'd have a limited time window since we're early to bed early to rise types. On a Friday or Saturday, though, we could watch the whole length of Dark City (which I'd very much like to see again, actually).

I'll have the volume knob way low, however, as I just got finished packing up the H/K and I'll be running my 4-ohm speakers off of the lil' Onkyo until I get something else.

 

[Mark Hayenga]

Aww, I wanted to see my Sharp in a suitably darkened HT :frowning:

Anyway, lemme know when & where. I can still drag the Sharp along, and maybe the screen if someone can offer transportation for it (it is ~85" long in its case and about 6" in diameter). Also, I can bring along one of the PE finished cabs if anyone wants to see one.

I'm in Bryan as of 4:40PM Monday, but will be driving back to Austin tonight.

 

[Jonathan DA]

Mark, I'm free tomorrow night. I can fit your screen into my car with the back seat down and we can bring it up to my place. I'll ICQ you tonight.

 

[Jeff Meininger]

Suitably darkened as in "walls aren't painted white" or as in "no ambient light"? If we start after sunset on Friday or Saturday, we'll be fine if you were concerned about the latter. It would be cool (especially for Jonathan) to see both in the same day.

I owe both of you a movie night anyway for your incredible amount of DIY audio help.

And I think I'm going to keep the H/K after all. I found another revision of the manual that explains things a little better, and I have more confidence in the delay settings now. I performed yet ANOTHER processor reset, and my other big problem (nasty audio stutter after pause/play a DVD) went away.

The speakers are still XO 1.0. After hearing how much better these drivers can sound with the crossover I did for my folk's center channel, I'm eager to get my own "2.0" crossovers underway. I'm not going to rush it, though... I'm at a comfortable place to take my time and get it right.