Microsoft pulls a 180 (heh) on Xbone DRM

Sam Posten

Moderator
Premium
HW Reviewer
Joined
Oct 30, 1997
Messages
29,086
Location
Aberdeen, MD & Navesink, NJ
Real Name
Sam Posten
This kind of bums me out a little tho, I was never one of the ones truly up in arms. Microsoft's proposed scheme would have been better for me in many ways:

-Hurting gamestop
-Allowing me to share my games with my nephews and other friends
-Allowing me to buy games at retail discounted prices and then convert them to full digital immediately.
 

mattCR

Reviewer
HW Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
10,897
Location
Lee Summit, Missouri
Real Name
Matt
Sam Posten said:
This kind of bums me out a little tho, I was never one of the ones truly up in arms. Microsoft's proposed scheme would have been better for me in many ways:

-Hurting gamestop
-Allowing me to share my games with my nephews and other friends
-Allowing me to buy games at retail discounted prices and then convert them to full digital immediately.
I don't see where either of the bottom two are changed in any way.

In regards to the top 1, realize you aren't just hurting Gamestop, Sam, you're hurting a lot of people who buy and sell used on places like Craigslist, Ebay, etc. direct to other consumers; and you're preventing people from being unreturnable "lemons" in titles, etc. or passing them on to someone who might like them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Aaron Silverman

Aaron Silverman

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jan 22, 1999
Messages
11,378
Location
Florida
Real Name
Aaron Silverman
What he said.

Anyway, good for Microsoft for doing the right thing (right for their bottom line, I'm sure, but right in general as well).
 

Simon Massey

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2001
Messages
2,547
Location
Abu Dhabi
Real Name
Simon Massey
Unfortunately I think a lot of damage will be done by this because whilst the policy may be changing now, whats to stop them altering it again once enough people have purchased the console.

A shame really, but I suspect whilst they may well convince some to now buy the console, I think they have probably lost of lot of trust from hardcore games and can imagine some picking up the PS4 now instead.

Me, Im happy with the 360 really :)
 
Joined
Jun 18, 2013
Messages
29
Location
DFW
Real Name
Chuck Kuykendall
LOL Xbone...

I was mildly concerned with the DRM and the "always online" factor of the new console as I hardly ever sell a used game (hoarders rarely sell stuff) and I expect my console to be online all the time anyway. But the fact that Microsoft is willing to bow to its fan-base and roll back some fairly large characteristics of this new console speaks volumes to me. Now, if they would just drop the price so I can afford playing as Jago SOONER that would be great...
 

Sam Posten

Moderator
Premium
HW Reviewer
Joined
Oct 30, 1997
Messages
29,086
Location
Aberdeen, MD & Navesink, NJ
Real Name
Sam Posten
mattCR said:
I don't see where either of the bottom two are changed in any way.

In regards to the top 1, realize you aren't just hurting Gamestop, Sam, you're hurting a lot of people who buy and sell used on places like Craigslist, Ebay, etc. direct to other consumers; and you're preventing people from being unreturnable "lemons" in titles, etc. or passing them on to someone who might like them.
They announced that family sharing is dead too:

Microsoft has confirmed to Kotaku that the "family sharing" and digital cloud library access features that were planned to be in the Xbox One are indeed gone thanks to today's policy reversal. Xbox one users will also apparently have to download a "Day One" patch to enable the offline mode.
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/06/rumor-microsoft-set-to-reverse-controversial-game-licensing-policies/

I get that others besides Gamestop would be hurt. But the sooner that vampirish bloodsucker is dead the better for the industry as a whole. F the pawnshop mentality.

More details at Engadget. Quite frankly it doesn't seem to be too well thought out:
http://www.engadget.com/2013/06/19/xbox-one-drm-marc-whitten/
 

TravisR

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
Messages
35,792
Location
The basement of the FBI building
Sam Posten said:
I get that others besides Gamestop would be hurt. But the sooner that vampirish bloodsucker is dead the better for the industry as a whole. F the pawnshop mentality.
I don't know much (nothing) about video games but how do used games hurt the industry? Or more specifically, I would think that the good of the used market would outweigh the bad since anything that allows people to play a game seems like it would be a boost to the industry in the end.
 

Sam Posten

Moderator
Premium
HW Reviewer
Joined
Oct 30, 1997
Messages
29,086
Location
Aberdeen, MD & Navesink, NJ
Real Name
Sam Posten
Microsoft just gave you a faster horse instead of an automobile...
It’s a messaging problemThe root reason why Microsoft had to back down on their changes and make things stick with the way they are, it’s because they did a horrible job selling their new features and what they could have meant for the consumer.
What they should have done is said that they’ve made the Xbox One an entirely digital experience, where people can purchase games directly from Microsoft on day 1 without having to wait in line, preorder or deal with physical discs. They should have said that they’re still going to make physical discs available for people who don’t have the appropriate bandwidth to download 50GB games, but that their focus is on digital. They should have said that because their focus is digital, all these features listed above are like Steam, but better. But instead they focused too much on the physical discs and lost people along the way.
WORD.
https://medium.com/adventures-in-consumer-technology/a849a9d4d530
Remember before you get to thinking I'm being snarky here, I preordered mine just about as early as humanly possible. I'm in either way, I thought maybe MS would keep the cool digital perks for those who buy em that way, sad that they are lost forever. Look at that list of lost perks again:

• If you purchased a physical disc game, your game was tied to your account and you could go to any other Xbox One and be able to have access to your entire library without carrying physical discs around
• You could re-sell your physical disc game to Gamestop or any participating outlet that opted into Microsoft’s revenue sharing system
• You could buy a used physical disc game from a participating retailer and play it like a new game
• You could install all your games onto your hard drive and not have to get up all the time to swap discs
• You could buy a digital copy and sell it or gift it to a friend (a previously unheard-of policy in digital games)
• You could potentially share your entire library with 10 friends/family members, with the only limitation being that you couldn’t play the same game at once
I'm a huge fan of steam. These features were actually better than what Steam allows.
 

Sam Posten

Moderator
Premium
HW Reviewer
Joined
Oct 30, 1997
Messages
29,086
Location
Aberdeen, MD & Navesink, NJ
Real Name
Sam Posten
TravisR said:
I don't know much (nothing) about video games but how do used games hurt the industry? Or more specifically, I would think that the good of the used market would outweigh the bad since anything that allows people to play a game seems like it would be a boost to the industry in the end.
Not a single penny spent on used games ever goes to a developer's pockets.
 

TravisR

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
Messages
35,792
Location
The basement of the FBI building
Sam Posten said:
Not a single penny spent on used games ever goes to a developer's pockets.
I understand that but like I said, I think that someone playing a game- whoever is getting the money- keeps up interest in the industry as a whole and that's worth the trade off. I have little to no interest in video games (the only reason I'm in this thread is to get an idea of what is happening with the new systems) but the prices that they go for would stop me from buying anything but what I was absolutely positive that was going to like. Drop the price $10 or $20 or $30, I'd be more inclined to buy more games and that would benefit the industry.
 

Dave Upton

Audiophile
Owner
Moderator
Joined
May 16, 2012
Messages
3,713
Location
Houston, TX
Real Name
Dave Upton
I suspect they watched pre-order volume and drove the decision based upon that. It's not shocking to notice that the PS4 launch was sold out much faster.

I do enjoy digital distribution, as a massive Steam user, however Microsoft's original XBOne plan was just wrong. Until they have the same great prices and weekend deals Steam does, the digital platform is just a higher priced medium with no real benefits I would use.
 

Sam Posten

Moderator
Premium
HW Reviewer
Joined
Oct 30, 1997
Messages
29,086
Location
Aberdeen, MD & Navesink, NJ
Real Name
Sam Posten
Type A said:
In 2011 there were 65 billion reasons this is woefully irrelevant.

http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Video_game_industry
You can't look at it as one big sum. You have to look at it from all sides. Gamers have been conditioned to expect that they can get used games almost immediately from a game's launch. They can wait as little as 3 days and buy a AAA title and none of that money goes to the dev. They can then trade that game in any time and the used title can be sold to another buyer, none of that money goes to a dev. You have a shadow market where only initial sales go to the makers and then the vast long tail they never get a cent from it.

It's leeching out money from Devs hands from the start.
 

Russell G

Fake Shemp
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2002
Messages
12,122
Location
Deadmonton
Real Name
Russell
Sam Posten said:
It's leeching out money from Devs hands from the start.
The flip side to this though is it's money the developers weren't going to see anyway. The developers got there money when it was purchased the first time. People buying the used game are the people who might not of been as committed to the game as to want to drop the $59. I'd also argue that there a lot of people buying used games are also the collector types buying lots of new games, similar to the torrenting movie/music stuff that the industry doesn't want people to know about.

Me personally, I don't have a dog in this race. Unless it's a used game for an older system, I rarely buy used. I tend to wait for "Game of the Year"/"Ultimate edition" versions of the games I like to buy once they go on sale, with the odd exception.
 

mattCR

Reviewer
HW Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
10,897
Location
Lee Summit, Missouri
Real Name
Matt
If ms had said: new games have drm, yes, but they will be $30 or less because the dev knows they don't have o compete against used.. I think people would take the trade off. But when the same title was on both ps4 and Xbox one, both for $59, all a consumer could see was stick and no carrot. And the daily checking was stupid. Even steam doesn't do that. Ms hasn't done that. Activate once and that's it.
 

Aaron Silverman

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jan 22, 1999
Messages
11,378
Location
Florida
Real Name
Aaron Silverman
Sam Posten said:
Not a single penny spent on used games ever goes to a developer's pockets.
Absolute nonsense. Quite a lot of the money spent on new games comes from the sale proceeds and/ or trade credit from used games. Granted, it's an indirect chain -- credit from game A funds the purchase of game B, but that works both ways.

The idea that new game purchases are funded by a magical money-pool that has no relation to the used game market is absurd.
 

Forum Sponsors

Forum statistics

Threads
345,205
Messages
4,734,065
Members
141,408
Latest member
GabeBillings