MGM MOD: Fox Bows On Demand MGM Movies for Retailers (2 Viewers)

[Paul_Scott]

Just got finished watching Bobbie Jo And The Outlaw- a cheezy, 1975 drive-in/exploitation entry famous for containing Lynda Carters only nude scenes, a year before she got the Wonder Woman gig.
It's a really dopey film to be sure, with some of the worst editing for continuity I've ever seen, but since I'm nostalgic for that era, always enjoy Marjoe Gortner, and love to oogle a young and utterly breath-taking LC, this has been on my most wanted on DVD list since I first bought into the format .
The PQ is comparable to many of the early Warner Archive 16:9 titles. The print is worn, dirty, full of nicks while the translation to DVD has introduced some pronounced ringing, which is visible in many long shots, occasionally in medium shots, and rarely in close-ups. The ringing is unfortunate because that's the only really distracting element to the presentation. I'm watching on a front projector with a fairly large screen, so people with more modest displays won't likely find this aspect nearly as intrusive. OTOH, the worn nature of the print fits in with the grindhouse/drive-in aesthetic, so I didn't find that a big issue at all.
For anyone considering buying this solely for Ms Carters nude scenes, be advised that one of the sequences that would regularly show up in those Celebrity Skin magazines of yore is now cropped out. The film must have originally been shot open matte, which is what you would see on the old VHS tapes. This only impacts the first quick flash, but since this area is what the film is primarily known (and loved) for, it's probably worth mentioning to any potential buyers.

I got mine from Amazon which ended up being $5 less than buying it from Screen Archives. Compare to the quality and price I would have paid for a less than reputable copy at a convention in days gone by, I'm happy with it- and look forward to getting more of some of the B gems that MGM owns in the future. I would love to see Goldengirl (which was an Avco Embassy title, so I assume MGM controls it now), The Last Embrace, Paradise...
Quite a few titles I would love to pick up, if they can all at least match the modest quality I see here.

 

[Wade Sowers]

I must say I had a good time with BOBBIE JO AND THE OUTLAW (you are correct in that this print really did have the "look" Tarantino/Rodriquez were trying to replicate in GRINDHOUSE, though some will probably resist paying $19.95 for the less-than-pristine experience) - Director Mark L. (CLASS OF 1984) Lester had his own way with this sort of thing; hopefully, someone who has the rights will give us DVDs of his earlier STEEL ARENA and, most importantly, TRUCK STOP WOMEN one of these days.

 

[SeanAx]

I received a response from Fox concerning the ghosting issues on many of the discs from the earlier batch of MGM Limited Edition Collection discs.

According to my contact at Fox, who spoke to Allied Vaughn, there was a faulty transcoder in the replication process which caused the ghosting. I don't have more details (I was not able to speak to anyone at Allied Vaughn directly) but I can say that Allied Vaughn has replaced the transcoder and I received replacement copies of "How I Won the War" and "The Captive City" which have no ghosting/haloing issues and in fact look sharper overall than the original discs I received.

I wrote up a news item on the issue and the resolution on my DVD/Blu-ray column Videodrone on MSN.

 

[PaulaJ]

Hee hee, glad my post got some attention!

Now, how exactly did you get replacement copies so I ask for replacement copies of Fort Bowie and The 7th Dawn?

And I wonder if they fixed Fort Defiance, which had a different set of problems.

I wrote to James Finn at Fox but of course got no reply whatsoever.

 

[benbrigade]

With the rate this series are putting out old United Artists titles I thought it would be fun to
do a checklist of United Artists films that have not made it to DVD yet.

This covers the Fifties only;and is by no means complete;corrections/additions would be
most welcome. I also realise MGM/UA probably do not hold the rights to all this stuff!
Nevertheless there are some great genre titles here:

BAIL OUT AT 43,000
BATTLE TAXI
BLACK TUESDAY
THE BOSS
CIRCLE OF DANGER
DESERT SANDS
DIAMOND WIZARD
DOWN THREE DARK STREETS
DRANGO
THE FAKE
FORT YUMA
FURY AT SHOWDOWN
GUN BELT
GUNS,GIRLS & GANGSTERS
GUNSIGHT RIDGE
THE HALLIDAY BRAND
HIDDEN FEAR
HUK
IRON SHERIFF
JUNGLE HEAT
LADY OF VENGEANCE
LONE GUN
MAGNETIC MONSTER
MAN ON THE PROWL
MARK OF THE APACHE
THE MUGGER
NEANDERTHAL MAN
PHARAOHS CURSE
RAIDERS OF THE SEVEN SEAS
REBEL IN TOWN
REVOLT AT FORT LARAMIE
RIDE OUT FOR REVENGE
RIDERS TO THE STARS
ROBBERS ROOST
ROGUE RIVER
SABRE JET
THE SCARF
SHARK RIVER
SHOOT FIRST
SOUTHWEST PASSAGE
STEEL BAYONET
STEEL LADY
STORM FEAR
STREET OF SINNERS
TEN SECONDS TO HELL
TIMBUKTU
TIMETABLE
TROOPER HOOK
TRY AND GET ME
VICE SQUAD
WAR DRUMS
WAR PAINT
YELLOW TOMAHAWK


I wonder how many of these titles will surface in a year or so.

 

[Camps]

Many of these titles have been released by MGM to Netflix streaming -- as have several of the titles now on MGM MOD (all presumably from the same source prints for both streaming and MOD discs) -- so it's possible some of these may make their way to disc too.

 

[Mark Pytel]

I purchased a bunch of these MGM MOD discs from various sites...some Amazon, some Movies Unlimited, some Screen Archives. I bought all of them around the same time so almost all of them have the ghosting issue. I didn't know they were planning on fixing these. I know that Amazon shys away from replacing a lot of movies..even if it is a serious issue.
I really can't stand the ghosting and would want to get new versions of these sent to me. How would I go about doing this for the ones I got back in Feb/March?
Should I say that these discs are no longer working properly? I have heard horror stories of Amazon Blocking your account for too many returns.
My other questions is, are all of the ones with ghosting fixed or just some of them?
Here are the ones that I have purchased so far under this new program..
The Hawaiians, How I won the War, Fort Massacre, Billy Two Hats, Queen of Blood, The Best Man, Still of the Night, Futureworld, Rolling Thunder, The Group, Spikes Gang, The Witches.

I have to go back and watch all of these again to see which ones have the ghosting issue. If all of these have it I can't return all of them even though if it was a mastering issue I technically should be able to. Since all of these are from Feb-March, they are past the Amazon's return window. Since these are MOD will they allow replacements after 90 days..especially if it was a mastering issue? Sean, can I have that contact to ask them for advice? Did they tell you to contact the distributor (amazon/movies unlimited) for the replacement or did Fox/Allied Vaughn send you one directly?
What does everyone suggest. If I would have known that these were fixed I would have sent a message right away..I just figured that this was a problem with the transfer itself not a printing issue. Are there some sights that get the newest versions? I have noticed that I tend to get the ghosting discs from Amazon.

Thanks for all of the info guys. Any advice or help would be appreciated.
-mark

 

[SeanAx]

Only a few of us seem to have had problems with faulty discs with ghosting/haloing issues. Is this an isolated issue, or more widespread?

None of the recent batch of MGM Limited Edition Collection DVD-R are supposed to have haloing in the image. This is not a problem with the digital masters but with the replication, and the three replacement discs I received look great, with no haloing in the image.

If you received discs with those problems, please chime in on this board. There is strength in numbers when it comes to getting redress.

 

[Mark Pytel]

Funny enough 70% of my MGM MOD disc have the ghosting. I bought them when I had some extra money so I made various purchases between February and March 31 was my last. Almost all of them have this issue in some variety. Since all of them had it, I didn't call since I assumed it was just the way they were producing the discs. Sean,
Please let your contact know as I have about 7 to return to amazon from my purchases between feb and march and I don't want to be banned from the site for too many returns.
I really want the movies to work as promised and feel that I shouldn't have to repurhcase these if it is known by the company that it was a manufacutiring error. The rep I talked to at MoviesUnlimited has said that they will replace the three I bought however they will note that they have heard nothing from MGM regarding replacements/returns for a replication error. Sean, maybe you can ask the rep to issue a notice to MoviesUnlimited, Amazon, Screen Archives and any other plac that sells these so that they know that some people will be needing to return these after the 30 day window since the recall is now made public.
I really don't want to keep the bad versions I have. Any help would be appreciated in this matter. Let me know if I should hold of on contacting Amazon until a rep lets them know.

Also, now that Sean has alerted us of this, we should all call and ask for replacement discs for any of ours that have the ghosting issue.

 

[Mark Pytel]

Sean,
I I got your original message regarding this issue. I've been trying to send you a response private message but it keeps coming up error and says that I am sending it to myself. I have no idea if you have recieved the subsequent messages I have sent.
The gist of what I said is that maybe you can ask that rep to issue a statement to moviesunlimited/ amazon/ screen archives so that they know that people like me will be asking for replacements. The girl at moviesunlimited said they had no idea that these discs can and have had problems and that MGM nor warners has alerted them to any issues that would warrant a disc replacement.
Maybe if you let the rep know they can issue something to that effect. Also, you should ask the rep to create a facebook page ala the Warner Archive so that we can ask questions and make movie requests. We want to know why some movies are fullframe and why some are still non-anamorphic. The Black Sleep, Cop Hater, Calling, and some others are fullframe while Chains of Gold and Cold Turkey and others are non-anamorphic. We are all wondering if they will fix this. They should have their own selling page like Columbia and Warners as it is then easy to contact for praise and problems.

-thanks
-mark

 

[PaulaJ]

I sent a message to Screen Archives Entertainment with a link to Sean's article and asked for replacement DVDs for the three with problems.

SAE didn't know anything about this and forwarded my e-mail to the manufacturer and we're still waiting to hear back from them.

Since Fox and its partners in the MGM/UA discs had a problem with the equipment resulting in faulty discs, then they really need to put out a press release stating the problem and how to get replacements. Or at least put out a press release this week stating they're working on it and they'll make an announcement soon about the replacement process.

As far as I'm concerned the cat is out of the bag with Sean's article and now Fox has to make this right.

 

[Mark Pytel]

Got a number to allied vaughn and one of the reps said that yes there was a master issue. She gave me the voicemail of a customer service manager. She was gone by the time I called. I have her number and will let you know what I find out. Currently I have 12 discs that were created and purchased during the period that supposedly has the ghosting. I will ask if I can get replacements as the stores aren't budging. I will also ask if it is safe to purchase any of the newer ones.
Once again I will find out what I can tomorrow.
-Mark

 

[SeanAx]

I have reached out to my contact at Fox and requested for clarification on the returns and asked Fox send out a statement or a press release to address the issue for consumers and for the vendors. If they aren't aware of the issues, then we can't expect much understanding in terms of returns. She is out of the office until Thursday so I'll have to wait for a response.

My fear is that the upshot of these problems will be that most people believe the ghosting issues are inherent in the MOD process itself and that they simply have to live with it. Or not, which is the danger. If consumers believe that these defective discs are indicative of the whole MGM Limited Edition Collection line, then they're going to stop purchasing them. Which isn't going to help anybody.

 

[SeanAx]

To Mark: I did receive your messages and I wrote back. But in case you didn't get them, be assured that I forwarded your note and Paula's note to my Fox contact so she could read, in your own words, what issues you are facing. But it may be a couple days before I get a response.

I will stay on top of the issue and follow up.

 

[borisfw]

I have bought many of these MGM mods from Amazon . Could anyone tell me exactly what ghosting is ? Or what to look for ? I'll have to check all the movies I've bought from this program to see if any have the same problem . Any help would be appreciated . Thanks in advance .

 

[Paul_Scott]

Going back and reading previous posts, it seems that what I'm referring to as ringing is what others are talking about when they say ghosting.
It appears as faint line, almost like an echo, around the left hand side of people/objects/etc especially in areas of high contrast and especially in instances when it is a darker object against a lighter background.

"The main cause of ringing artifacts is due to a signal being bandlimited (specifically, not having high frequencies) or passed through a low-pass filter; this is the frequency domain description. In terms of the time domain, the cause of this type of ringing is the ripples in the sinc function,[1] which is the impulse response (time domain representation) of a perfect low-pass filter. Mathematically, this is called the Gibbs phenomenon.

The full wiki entry can be found here with illos.

The filtering is done to 'dumb down' the detail in the image to accommodate the smaller capacity and lower bandwidth of single layer discs and automated compression programs.
unfortunately the limitations of an MOD program are going to contribute to quite a few releases having this problem. Going dual layer and upping the bandwidth will alleviate some of it, but you also need to have someone there overseeing and tweaking the compression- you can't just run them through an automated program to save having to pay some one. Not if you want a high quality disc.
Warner has gotten better in this respect, but the money bags higher up have seen positive monetary returns on the program so they've increased the budgets allowing for re-masters and dual layer discs.

I don't expect the same from these other studios anytime soon.

 

[Mark Pytel]

Spoke to the lady at Allied Vaughn. They are in the process of reencoding the movies with ghosting. As they remaster these, I am getting new copies. She told me to feel free to call Allied Vaughn and they will gladly replace these once they are re-encoded. She had said that the ghosting is NOT part of the film elements themselves..which I think is why not a lot of people complained. It was a result of an error during the transcoding process as Sean mentioned in his posting.
This was an issue from February to March on the movies that they produced. I will let you know once I get new ones of these.

I will have to call movies unlimited and let them know what I found out.

 

[PaulaJ]

Phone number for Allied Vaughn?

 

[Mark Pytel]

Sean perhaps when you talk to your mgm rep you can ask why a great deal of the movies are non-oar. I could have sworn that when they discussed this program early on it was supposed to be OAR like the Warner one.
So far a lot of the 1950's movies are not OAR.
Unless I am mistaken
The Black Sleep, Not As a Stranger, Cop Hater and others are fullframe when being of the late 50's should have been widescreen.
Warner doesn't always remaster the films but they are always OAR. I wonder why this program is not in the same vain.
They should go back and make widescreen masters of these. Could you inquire about that for me as well? Also let them know that the May 17th release of Assissi Underground should be a scope film but the listing says full frame.

I just am an advocate for OAR and a decent presentation.

 

[SeanAx]

Allied Vaughn releases a statement today promising to honor all replacements. You can get it replaced through the retailer from Allied directly, and they provided contact information:

Phone: 1-800-759-4087, ext 5
[COLOR= black]E-mail: [/COLOR][email protected]

I reported on it via my DVD column Videodrone

Here is the complete press release.

[COLOR= black]Allied Vaughn has recently become aware of reports where consumers are seeing an unusual amount of "ghosting" when viewing select MGM Limited Edition Collection titles on certain combinations of television screens, DVD players, and discs. Allied Vaughn has successfully identified the problem which causes the “ghosting” and has taken all necessary steps to correct this issue. The discs reporting the issue were made between March 15 and May 3, 2011. No product manufactured after May 25th, 2011 should exhibit this affect.[/COLOR]

[COLOR= black]Allied Vaughn stands behind the quality of the MGM Limited Edition Collection. Should a consumer experience excessive ghosting problems with those titles, we will replace that disc in accordance with our manufacturing warranty. Consumers may contact their retailer for replacement, or Allied Vaughn directly at 1-800-759-4087, ext 5, or via email at [/COLOR][COLOR= blue][email protected][/COLOR][COLOR= black]. [/COLOR]