Metallica Black Album DVD-A - Technical Question (1 Viewer)

[Alex Shk]

I think there are still some bugs in this whole 5.1 deal (not only hi-rez either). I have a Sony S530 that refuses to output the .1 channel on the dts CD of Wings Venus and Mars. Yeah, Yeah - I know that it is essentially the quad mix, but so is the dts CD of Wings Band on the Run, which does have subwoofer activity on my system.

Even stranger is that if I set my Yamaha receiver to "effects off", essentially folding down the mix to stereo, the subwoofer becomes active on Venus and Mars.

 

[Brian L]

What a freakin' ball-buster!

Its clearly the 45A, as your 45A/Integra test verified.

Here's a question: When it was only outputting L/R/Sub, was it the whole mix, or just the L/R parts of the 5.1 mix? The point of the question is that if the switch from 2CH to 5.1 is hosed in the software by this title (there is a toggle for that in the set-up), you would only get the L/R and maybe sub. However, if the player were simply defaulting to the 2CH mix, assuming there is one, that would be another deal altogether.

Speaking of which, when you play the title, does the audio button allow you to change to a different mix? How about going to the disc menu. Is there an option to choose a 2CH mix?

I did not get to Best Buy last night, so I still don't have the title. Perhaps tonight or later this weekend.

FWIW, I have had my player since October of '02. I just looked at the box it it too is a July '02 unit.

BGL

 

[Jon_Welker]

Brian,

The L/R/Sub was only from the DV47AI, not the DV45A. We tested that player as well for grins, and it didn't play the disc properly either. There is a 2 channel mix on the disc, which, as far as I can tell, plays correctly. In the Metallica disc main menu, there is an optionn for the surround mix and the stereo mix. It does not default to one or the other, you have to select which one to play. Yes, it is the DV45A. Now the question is - Where do we go from here???

 

[Brian L]

Sorry dude, Best Buy was fresh out of Black Album DVD-A's. Hopefully another 45A owner has it and chimes in.

 

[DanielSmi]

I have the Pioneer DV-38A and I can't recall any problems playing the black album.

Daniel Smith

 

[Tony Casler]

I have an August '02 47Ai hooked up with analog cables. The main five channels play perfectly, but the .1 is very weak, I can turn off the sub and not notice a difference.
My other DVD-A discs (Disturbed, Eagles, Linkin Park) play normally, and SACD sounds great as well.

 

[Jon_Welker]

Alright, hold the presses! A member over at avsforum.com got me going down a path with a solution to this. OK, here's what happened. You can select Fixed or Variable in 2 places in the setup menus on the DV45A. Under Audio Settings and under Initial Settings>Speakers>Channel Level. At first when I selected between Fixed and Variable via the the Audio Settings option, it did not make a difference in outputting the center or lfe. Now, I went into the second route, Initial Settings>Speakers>Channel Level, and was prompted to adjust the dB level for each speaker. I turned them all up to 3.0dB, and the sub up to 6dB. Played again, and it was like turning on a light switch. Bam! subs kicked in as did the center channel. Also, made sure all the speakers were set to Small. Now, either through the Audio Settings or the Settings>Initial Settings>Speakers>Channel Level set to Fixed, all 5.1 work like they should, even if it is not set to Variable. I'm not a technical genius with this stuff, so maybe someone else can give a reasonable explanation. But, it does play like it should now after setting those dB levels it seems like.

Now, yes I do feel like somewhat of a schmuck for raising such a stink about this, but at the same time when you have one DVD-A disc (Disturbed) that plays like it should, and another that doesn't with your current settings, you have to scratch your head a little. And, when you put the Metallica disc in another DVD-A capable player and it plays no problem, it raises some natural red flags. Also, I'm sure I will not be the only person belonging to this forum that will run across the same issue regarding the DV45A. So, yes, I do apoligize for raising such a stink, but, at the same time, I feel that this will provide some benefit in terms of awareness to a larger community, especially those that are not experts with this stuff. Also, EVERYONE at the Elite dealer confirmed my previous diagnosis of the DV45A having issues with this disc, and they "should" know this equipment as well as anyone. Well, thanks everyone for your help in resolving this issue. BTW, the actual mix on the disc is sounding pretty cool now that I can listen to it in full 5.1. Thanks again and take care.

 

[Brian L]

Channel Level, and was prompted to adjust the dB level for each speaker. I turned them all up to 3.0dB, and the sub up to 6dB.

So the $50,000 question is, what were the initial settings before you raised them? In variable, the range is -6 to +6 dB.

I am glad you have this sorted out, but I would maintain that even if you had worst case (-6 on sub and center, +6 all other channels) you would have heard some output.

The level settings certainly should not have created any sort of on/off switch (unless I missed something in the manual).

But hey, know you can go to the Elite dealer, and educate them! That out to make this worth the trouble right?

And you need not apologize for anything. The list of quirks that exist in most current DVD players (and universal players) is a long one. If you look at all the discussion from users of the Denon 1600 and 2900, as well as part discussions about the 45A, you will see that this sort of thing is common.

With any given issue, there are at least 3 possible causes; problem with the authoring of the DVD itself, problems with the players software or hardware, and of course the ever popular "combinations" of both.

Our hobby is now (and has been for a while) much more akin to the computer field in terms of the errors that may occur and their solutions.

Glad its working, now you can get on with enjoying the player. DVD-A and SACD ROCKS!

BGL

 

[Jon_Welker]

Hey, Brian, thanks for all of your help and understanding through this. You are a definite asset to this community.

The original settings in the Initial Settings>Speakers>Channel Level>Variable were all set to 0 dB. I moved all speakers to 3db and the sub to 6dB, and presto. And, if I remember correctly, that's how the Elite dealer had their demo setup as well. Yeah, I'll be giving them a call tomorrow to give them an update.

Yeah, I work in the technology arena, and it kind of reminds of trying to track down and fix bugs in software. Many similarities here between the two. And, yes, now that I can finally listen to the mix, it sounds pretty cool, especially Unforgiven and Nothing Else Matters.

 

[Brian L]

Jon,

Finally got the Black Album DVD-A. Damn, there is something wrong. No sound from the sub or center. WFT??????

Any ideas????

OK, just yankin' everyone's chain a bit. It plays fine. No shortage of bass on this one.

I have to say though that I was a little disappointed in the sonics, particularly the cymbals. Very, very harsh sounding on my rig. No problems with the other instrumentation (some very low drone bass notes on Wherever I May Roam), just the cymbals sound really, really harsh.

Of course, part of the problem was likely due to the fact that I popped this in immediately after playing the new Steely Dan DVD-A (Everything Must Go).

There are very few discs on the planet that would survive that sort of comparison. EVERYTHING will tend to sound like sh*t when following a new Dan recording!

BGL

 

[Steve_AS]

Channel Level, and was prompted to adjust the dB level for each speaker. I turned them all up to 3.0dB, and the sub up to 6dB.


So the $50,000 question is, what were the initial settings before you raised them? In variable, the range is -6 to +6 dB.

I am glad you have this sorted out, but I would maintain that even if you had worst case (-6 on sub and center, +6 all other channels) you would have heard some output.

The level settings certainly should not have created any sort of on/off switch (unless I missed something in the manual).

I have a feeling he simply didn't have his speakers set to 'SMALL' in the first place. Whihc means that *only* .1 info was being sent to the sub. If bass was mixed to the other speakers -- as is often the case -- then the sub might sound anemic.

I have the bLack DVD-A and will give it a check tonight on my DV-45a. I don't recall any bass issues with it, last tiem I played it.

 

[Steve_AS]

I did some simple checks pf the Metallica disc DVD-A playback this evening, playing it on a DV-45a.
//
Speaker menu settings:

Audio output: 5.1 ch

Speaker Levels tested:
a. variable (all levels at 0 dB boost)
b. fixed (= + 6 dB for all, according to manual)

Speaker installations tested:
a. 5 small/sub on
b. Front large /Ctr small/Sur small/Sub ON
c. 5 large/sub ON

Connection:
6-channel analog output to 6-channel analog input of Harmon-Kardon AVR 520
(the player's digital out is also connected to the receiver, but of course was not used for this test)


Main test track: 'Nothing else MAtters' surroudn DVD-A track. All other tracks tested for format.
//

Summary of results:

- All tracks read as 3/2.1 channel, 96kHz/24bit ('DVD-A 5.1')

- there was always considerable output from the center speakers and subwoofers

- there was more bass from the sub when front speakers were set to 'small' than when set to 'large'.

In other words, it seems to be behaving normally.


Since 'fixed' and 'variable' behaved similarly (though naturally fixed was louder than my variable setting at 0 dB , because 'fixed' maxes out the level boost at + 6 dB), I'm guessing again that the original 'problem' -- report that the center channel was silent, or that the sub was silent/suppressed -- was either

1) improper speaker size settings, or

2) the speaker 'audio output' was set to '2 ch' instead of the correct '5.1 channel', or

3) different definitions of 'considerable output'. With my head near the center or sub, I could easily hear the output. I could *feel* the sub output from much further away. Of course, it helps not to play the msuic at ear-splitting volume, that way you can hear what's coming from each speaker more clearly.

4) faulty player

5) receiver issues