MCM copy of the W8 from TB.Lots of Pics

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by AllanRW, Sep 26, 2002.

  1. AllanRW

    AllanRW Second Unit

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    http://www.boomspeed.com/wrnch22/Image-346301.JPG
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    Ok the TB W8-740C is seen on the right in all pictures, the MCM copy 55-2421 is on the left.
    MCM -has the yellow spdy
    a small attempt to put a free mounting gasket.
    LARGER VENT HOLE.
    Cone material and surround are both BOPRO.
    Frames a little more material from the TB frame.
    Still looking and just had to load these ASAP.
    The packaging from MCM is as usual very very cheap, and with out proper packaging look what the chance of getting these monsters banged up.
    The MCM driver box has some good damage to it.
    Well the TB packaging !!
    Just a pointer.
    Al
     
  2. Hailan R

    Hailan R Agent

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    Wow pretty simmilar to each other, from the pics the tb looks to be a bit taller(or deeper)??. Also keep us posted on the important stuff, how it sounds [​IMG]
     
  3. Jon Torres

    Jon Torres Second Unit

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    What kind of box are you thinking of putting them in? When I modeled the MCM woofer, I couldn't find any box alignment that looked good.
     
  4. AllanRW

    AllanRW Second Unit

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    I will have the MCM in a 12" cube to compare to the W8 from TB.
    The W8 I have it in a 12" cube now but going to PR it.
    Just getting every thing in place for that.
    Trying all the options first.
    The W8 I am very happy with ported in the cube but will only take 150 wtts before it hits its load.
    So I have got a PR coming for that.
    And I will have info on the two in a few weeks time.
    As I hope to get my site back up by then.

    Al
     
  5. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    Hi Allan

    What PR or PR's are you looking to use in the 12" cube?

    Brand, make, size???

    Geoff

    Edit:
    What size port and whats the 12" cube encloser tuned to????

    As stated above by another member, when I tried modeling it I ran into the same problem. Nothing looked very good...
    I didn't model Pr'ed though...
     
  6. AllanRW

    AllanRW Second Unit

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    I have the 12" cube ported to 25 way to low.
    2"X 18" port.With 1 lb of fill.

    the PRs will be testing a few.
    And possible make one.
    Will see.But I think the PR is the way to go from what I have found out so far.

    More will follow.


    Al
     
  7. Hank Frankenberg

    Hank Frankenberg Cinematographer

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    Allan, unfortunately I think you're right. I have three of the TB's and am building a 3/4" MDF 11" cube and will put one of my PE 792 amps in it. I really wanted to do a sealed alignment, but the graph is not impressive. The only thing that will make it semi-worthwhile is the 5 dB boost at 30-35Hz in the plate amp. I'll see how it sounds this weekend. A decent diameter port tube is too long to fit in a small cube, so a person is almost forced to go with a PR. It's likely that a good PR will cost as much as the TB. It'll be interesting to see how the MCM models and sounds. I haven't had time to plug it into my Emminence designer program yet. Yes, the TB packaging is excellent, professional and protected the drivers very well from China to Canada to Texas. The UPS shipping charge from Canada was terrible, so I hope the MCM's will perform.
     
  8. Bob Reimer

    Bob Reimer Agent

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    The most reasonable shipping from Canada is Canada Post.

    Cheers
    Bob
     
  9. AllanRW

    AllanRW Second Unit

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    Yes Hank and Bob.

    As a fact I recieved a email from Jay at MCM yesterday about my RESEARCH on the 2 drivers and he has followed the photos and said it brought the packaging methods to the attention of those at MCM.
    After how long!! Just good to see it has hit home.
    The carton cost is only.10 cents USD I will add for the cost of the packaging from TB to the same as MCM.
    Money well spent.
    I also brought up to Jay that the package I received with the single MCM 55-2421 and sent him pics of the packaging of the single unit in a shipping box 3 times its size with that only 1/3 full of the foam chips.
    So once the unit was in my hands the shipping box was crushed like a cookie , and was very unpleased to see this.But the driver did seam ok.
    Jay has just sent me another mail as I am replying to this and has said the packaging methods will be talked to the manufacture (Lyeco).As he is leaving for the electronics show over in Taiwan.
    And the packaging photos were sent to those people in the position to fix that problem.

    Anyway Shipping Hank.
    Well,had many of words with the other person now filling the orders for Nuera.About this and I was instant about just using Canada Post GROUND!!
    Shipping is CHEAPER THAN USPP.
    You want to try some thing some time.
    Go to the 2 web sites and send a package from say Nueras address to you using Canada Post online.Then the same for USPP. look at the price difference.
    1/3 savings about buy dsending the same package from Canada s to having it sent North!!!!!.
    And CANADA POST is the only shipping method I will rend things down SOUTH.SLOWWEERR, but why pay the $10.00+ on extra handling from UPS.
    ANd I will say Nuera (BILLY ) thinks all of the USA based customers want to use UPS.And he does not get it in his head about the charges.Well enough on the individual.

    Anyway working on the 8" drivers in the 12" cube and a PR along with a 792 or the Solen Sub 100 AMP.
    And Yes the PR looks like the only 100% stable Sub match for the W8- now we will see about the MCM 55-2421.


    Al
     
  10. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Al,

    I met Jay and some of the other guys from MCM at CEDIA last week. Very nice guys! The first thing I told them was that the website was a complete waste of time and that I'd just as soon order from Parts Express if I could find a similar item. It sounds like they took what I had to say to heart and even said that there should be a new, much improved website launching within the next month or so. I also pointed out some driver spec inaccuracies listed in the catalog that he said he'd look into. All in all, I'm very pleased with the conversation we had.

    I hope to be trying out the new MCM 8" very soon as well. Also, I'm STILL waiting on my 12" PR from John at Stryke. It's been almost 2 months now since I placed my order and when I called yesterday I got a message saying that the number had been temporarily disconnected. Speaking of which, I better go call again.

    Brian
     
  11. AllanRW

    AllanRW Second Unit

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    Brain.
    On the PRs.
    I got a little info on the PRs and have a few I will be getting to test with the W8 and 2421 from MCM.
    I hope to go get them in the next day.
    And then will be testing them with the drivers and the 792-794 AMPS.
    The PRs are OLD stock from Lambda.these are 10" PRS.
    The 10" PRs are not common as the market has not realy had a need for them till the W8- 2421 arrived.Now to keep these drivers in small cabinets this is the only way it makes it possible.
    Well a 2" X 4 foot port could come sort of close.
    Just have to make it fit in the cabinet.
    Al[​IMG]
     
  12. Hailan R

    Hailan R Agent

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    Allan I was just wondering if well the mcm has clearly more xmax(17mm as stated over the 12mm of tb, even tho i think you got the 17mm tb's right??). Also the sensivity is it better then the tb driver or his mcm's 87db overrated [​IMG] thanx
     
  13. AllanRW

    AllanRW Second Unit

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    Ok.
    Here goes.
    I spent all day yesterday doing testing on designs I have on the Go.
    MT,MTM using the W4-657S and the 25-302S tweeter along with the W3-871S cubes.
    And the 8" shoot out.
    Results.
    The MCM is the over all winner.
    The TB driver has a way stiffer compliance over the MCM.
    The TB driver also does hit its XMAX under 200 watts.
    The MCM driver has more travel and XMAX and is more stable in the 12" cube.The MCM does hit its XMAX limits but at a higher power handling than the TB.
    Now these are both with listening to tones that do not drop[ to 17HZ at 200 watts.
    These after all are only 8" subs.And the will take the power output but the lowest tones they both bottom out.
    I have had the TB in a 12" cube ported and sealed.
    Sealed the TB does not go low enough to look at.With the Port the TB had to have a port 2" X 30 " to get out of port noise.Now the port will work in the cube BUT it will take a lot of PVC elbows and it just fills the cube.Then well you have o volume left in the cube.Hence a bigger cabinet for the W8.
    Now the TB nd a PR is very HAPPY HAPPY!!.In the same 12" cube internal size.
    Hits hard and powers out around 250 watts as the data sheet reports.

    But the winner is the MCM 55-2421.
    Cone travel is farther.
    A first look at the MCM checking travel looks as if it is limited on the inward travel of the cone outward its fine but inward the surround wrinkles on its full excursion inward.
    That said it takes more power goes a little lower over the W8.
    The PR brings the hitting power of this little 8" driver to life.
    Testing both drivers on horn Cd's with tones down to 18HZ and with the intro to TOY STORY II.
    These little 8" subs had the walls making noises in my home I have never heard of.The windows were dancing also.

    The MCM 55-2421 is aa drop in driver for the TB.
    Both drivers have the same frame.
    The MCM has a raised spyder (that is what gives it more travel XMAX) and the TB has the spider on the lower rung and that limits its XMAX.
    The TB uses a smaller vent over the MCM 55-2421.The vent hole has a screen on the MCM the TB does not!!
    Other than the the dust cap is larger on the TB and TB put a coating over the cone material to make it more stable in the car audio application.The MCM is just the paper cone and same surround as the TB.Both are Bo PRO.HENCE TB.As TB owns BO PRO!

    I will post some measurements later to day.


    Al
     
  14. Hank Frankenberg

    Hank Frankenberg Cinematographer

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    I'll finish a 12" cube and pop on a -792 PE subwoofer this weekend, but it'll be sealed. So, according to Brian and Allan, the only way to get these baby subs to crank is to do a PR. Maybe it's just me, but something about paying almost twice for a PR than the driver costs rubs me the wrong way. Does anyone know of a less expensive PR than the Stryke $55 10"??
     
  15. AllanRW

    AllanRW Second Unit

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    Hank.
    If you find something pass it on.
    As it sits now I have not found anything from anyone cheaper than from John.
    But I agree 100% in the cost of the PR to the cost of the driver.
    Like I said I am looking into geting a supply for the 10" PRs that makes a good match and is not cost driven.
    But as it stands now the one from John is the only one.For that price.
    Al[​IMG]
     
  16. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Allan,

    I did get your email the other day concerning the PR's you're looking into. I'd be very interested if we can get some. I'll be building my MCM/12" PR sub (actually, my dad just finished nailing it together) this week. I just need to modify the boost on the amp.

    Brian
     
  17. AllanRW

    AllanRW Second Unit

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    Brain.
    What are you going to adjust the boost to.
    What is the weight of the PR.
    If its a 400g go no higher than 4
    The 290g you would go less.


    Al
     
  18. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Allan,

    It's the stock, 670g 12" PR from Stryke. I'm figuring the enclosure is roughly 25L after accounting for the amp, driver and PR. I get an Fb around 25Hz, which is pretty close to the driver's Fs. I figured I'd go with 1-2dB boost with a corner frequency around 25Hz. That is, unless I add some mass to the PR for a lower tuning. But considering this is an 8" driver I don't know that it will be worth going much lower.

    Brian
     
  19. Chris Carswell

    Chris Carswell Supporting Actor

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    You guys find a cheaper PR yet? How about these......
    -
    Madisound:
    10100PR 10" $20.00
    12100PR 12" $25.00
    -
    or Seas PR:
    SP25R (H9902) 10" poly cone Passive Radiator with threaded bolt Fs 22, Mms 42 g, Cms 1.25 mm/N, X-max 12.5mm, Sd 350 sq cm $38.95
    -
    or the Human PR:
    PRO 015 10" passive radiator 32.00
    PRO 023 12" passive radiator 37.00
    Hope it helps [​IMG]
     
  20. Hank Frankenberg

    Hank Frankenberg Cinematographer

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    Chris, thanks for the tip. I downloaded the Madisound catalog, and on page 24 is a small Passive Radiators section describing their unique PR's because of the weight tuning method. They say: "Some manufacturers have sold weight kits with the radiators, but the expense is high." Their method is that their cones have a small, tightly sealed dust cap. Add silicon caulk on top of that dust cap until you reach your tune, then a second, larger dust cap is glued over that, and you're in business.
    Also, the section on this page lists only two PR's"
    8100PR8" $17 each
    10100PR10" $20 each

    Well, the pricing is attractive enough for me to try. This could be a very good value little sub. I just don't understand why a PR should cost as much as Strykes, given the absence of the material and labor of a voice coil and magnet.
    Okay, I'm new to PR's, so I'll take a look at my Eminence Designer program this evening and see what it says. What specs on the PR's do I need to plug into the program?
     

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