MASTER BURN-IN THREAD: READ THIS FIRST! (And ask follow-ups here.) (1 Viewer)

[Gary Mui]

Are you sure you're not just seeing the 'darker' sides that are typical of a RPTV? Y'know how the middle of the screen is typically brighter, and the sides aren't as bright. Maybe after a year, the sides got a bit darker, therefore more noticeable?

 

[Dan M]

No Gary, what I'm seeing is a very clear indication of side bar burn-in. It's very faint (thank God), but there nonetheless.
If you're ever in Virginia, stop by and I'll be happy to show them to you!

 

[Jan Strnad]

Dan,
You should watch movies with more nudity in them. Then you won't be so distracted by the burn-in.
Jan

 

[Dan M]

Thanks for the tip Jan!

The burn-in is so slight that I really can't say that I find it distracting at this point. I just don't want to make it any worse though!

I love movies with nudity, BTW (as long as it's in the correct OAR):b

 

[Robert McKofke]

I'm currently contemplating buying a RPTV (a Toshiba, with Either Panasonic or Mits as my next choices, minimum 50"). My wife and I mainly watch TV (she more than I) and most of it is 4:3 - in fact, all of our broadcast viewing is 4:3. And DVD we watch is 16:9 (I currently have a Sony WEGA XBR400, 36"). Since a new TV will be the main set, it will be subject to much 4:3 viewing. The reason I am leaning towards Toshiba is I keep hearing how their stretch modes are a cut above the rest. I have seen these sets in person, but they always have HDTV content playing on them, and I'm not very serious to buy one just yet (I just bought a house, and this purchase might happen next year - I thought I'd start my research a little early).

From what I have read in this thread and others...is it a safe assumption that if I got this set - or any other RPTV with a 16:9 ratio, and I watched everything in "stretch-mode" would I be able to avoid this dreaded burn-in? If the Tosh's do indeed have an excellent stretch-mode, I would be content to leave all my normal broadcast viewing in that mode, and switch it back for DVD's (and eventually DirecTV HD channels when I get a dish).

Am I correct in assuming this? Using my current Sony for 4:3 viewing would be impractical, as it would end up in the basement upon purchasing the RPTV, and I doubt my wife will want to spend her time watching TV there (I wouldn't mind). I can't move the RPTV to the basement, as it's size doesn't afford me the room to have a real home-theater environment there.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Robert,

It's hard to say whether you'll like the stretch modes on any TV. Best thing to do is go see them for yourself. If nowhere else, I'd suggest checking out a local Best Buy. They tend to feed all sorts of signals to their TVs and carry all 3 brands you mentioned although their Mits are specially made for them--not as feature rich as regular Mits from what I read. Also, if your prefered dealer has a DVD player hooked up to the TVs, you could always bring a mediocre quality, non-16x9 DVD to try stretch modes for a reasonably close feel.

Anyway, as far as burn-in goes, you're safest if you use a stretch mode for 4x3 programming. PLUS you should remember to turn down the contrast on the TV since they usually default to damaging levels. Also, avoid bright/intense, fixed logos/images like you often see in sports and news broadcasts as much as possible. It's also possible for burn-in to occur w/ the letterbox black bars above and below wider ratio movies, eg. 2.35:1 like many action flicks, but properly calibrating your TV should reduce the risk substantially.

Personally, I'm beginning to think those bright/intense grey side bars in 4x3 mode are maybe worse than black bars. I find that all my viewing so far probably average much lower intensity than those grey side bars. I haven't done any critical comparisons or measurements, but my guess is the grey bars on my Panny are probably quite close to the 75% grey bars on the Avia color test patterns. That's probably way too intense compared to the average image that one might watch in 4x3 mode, except perhaps some sporting events. Really wish there was a way to lower their intensity.

_Man_

 

[John Bryant]

Simple question. I have a Samsung 27" direct view HDTV. Any chances at all of burn in on this set? (It is calibrated)

 

[Allen_Appel]

I have a Mitsubishi 46807 RPTV. I watch everything in stretch mode and I also use a ReplayTV Showstopper. Some time ago I was playing a videogame that had a white title screen and was shocked to see that the information displayed when I pause the ReplayTV had burned into the set. I had used VE to calibrate my set, but I hadn't realized that I was only changing the settings for the DVD input, so my contrast was set too high, though the burn-in was only visible against a pure white image. I now make it a point to turn off the set if I pause the tv, and I'm pleased to say that the burn-in has so lessened in intensity that it is barely visible anymore. So, while burn-in is a reality, it is reversible.

 

[Kevin P]

Personally, I'm beginning to think those bright/intense grey side bars in 4x3 mode are maybe worse than black bars. I find that all my viewing so far probably average much lower intensity than those grey side bars.

Not necessarily... at least one poster here said his burn pattern was that the "bar" areas were brighter than the center of the screen, meaning the "grey bars" aren't bright enough to even out the wear, or the 4:3 material averages higher brightness levels than the bars.

The bars are usually calibrated at the factory to be at an "average" intensity level relative to the images typically displayed on TV screens. In reality this is almost never the case; some may tend to watch darker programming and others may watch brighter, flashier shows (and commercials are almost always overly bright!) Keeping contrast down helps reduce this differential.

Someday someone will get the bright idea of having variable side bars, that adjust relative to the average brightness of the image. During bright commercials, the gray bars increase in intensity, and during dark scenes, they reduce in intensity. Not only would this help even out the wear on the phosphor, it would actually make the bars less distracting in a lot of cases.

Mitsubishi has used a "roving" 4:3 image for a few years now; where every time you turn the TV on or select 4:3 mode the 4:3 window moves slightly so the demarcation points are different. This doesn't eliminate the possibility of grey bar burn-in but it tends to make it less noticeable since there won't be a sharp line where the burn begins/ends.

KJP

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

With all the talk about OAR vs burn-in risk, I'd like to ask this, which nobody seems to have considered when talking about this issue:
If you're so worried about burn-in on RPTVs (and you should), then why are so many of you using your RPTVs for viewing of lots of non-critical 4x3 content???
I keep seeing people justify stretch/zooming because broadcast TV is not critical viewing. Well, I can agree that most of what's on broadcast TV is really not worth watching, which is why I don't watch much broadcast TV. But then, shouldn't you want to SAVE your RPTV from phosphor wear period??? What we call "burn-in" is simply uneven phosphor wear. It's not like watching 4x3 stretched won't wear out your RPTV.
Also, most of us get most of our broadcast 4x3 content via crappy quality signals. On an RPTV, the crappy quality really "shines"(!), so shouldn't you want to watch them even less than you did on a smaller direct-view that doesn't have the same burn-in risk? And if you're watching lots of 4x3 DVDs, well, then you probably want those in OAR anyway.
Btw, it's also hard to consider crappy quality broadcast TV (whether it's the signal OR the content) to be Home Theater material.
If it's really worth watching, then it's worth watching in OAR w/out distortion. Just get an el cheapo 13" CRT for background noise, if that's what you're after most of time.
_Man_

 

[Jerry*G]

I just got a 16:9 Mitsu Diamond and have been trying not to watch anything that might cause burn in (stationary station logos, stock ticker, black/gray bars of any sort).
The TV is calibrated descently (used Avia) and am going to contact Greg L. again about a calibration date....spoke to him once, nice guy.
So, my question is, after I put a certain # of hours on the set (100 or so)......do I still have to be extremely careful?
Also, what is the deal with the black bars on "every" DVD I put in. I won't watch them due to the possibility of burn in.
Is there an aspect ratio on DVDs I should be looking for so I don't get these bars? It's rather annoying.
Even if the DVD box sais Letterbox, Anamorphic, etc. (I get the black bars).

 

[Michael Reuben]

I won't watch them due to the possibility of burn in.

People have been watching letterboxed material on TVs for years without major burn-in problems. As long as you've properly set your contrast and brightness, you needn't worry.
M.

 

[Gary Mui]

Don't give in to BURN-IN PARANOIA, you will Never win.
Just calibrate your set, and enjoy your home theater. No sense dropping the big bucks, then worry about what you can or cannot watch on it. Just remember not to leave static images on the screen for hours on end (black bars are ok for movies).

 

[david*mt]

Would I have to worry about burn ins on the Samsung 27'' TXM2796HF? It is High Definition, but not a projection. Could I watch widescreen movies with the black bars with no worries?

 

[Mark Lee]

Wondering -- for those who get the dreaded burn-in, and have a case distracting enough that one would consider CRT replacement, what kinda moolah would such an overhaul cost? Given the steadily-falling prices on RPTVs these days compared with just a few years ago, would it make sense to shell out the cash for CRT replacements, vs just getting a whole new TV?

 

[Qui-Gon John]

I think you would also consider how long you've had it, actual cost to replace the guns vs. the cost for a set you'd want to replace it with. I wonder how hard would it be to change the guns yourself, if you could just order them from the manuf.

 

[Brae]

Jerry*G:
I would routinely check your setting to make sure they stay as you put them, and also get some good feedback from those Mits fanatics over at HomeTheaterSpot.
Gary Mui:
Paranoia? Would you like me to provide images of my paranoia?
Mark Lee:
This would be an interesting opportunity, but I find it a lot easier to get a price for tube replacement on my Nec XG135LC front CRT projector than on my Mitsubishi Diamond 65907 RPTV.
In fact, the tub cost for the NEC 8" tube is about $600, while I have yet to get someone to give me a price for a 7" tube in my RPTV.
And yes, if you are someone that has an eye for detail the uneven phosphor wear condition can be menacing.
John Co:
After having my unit for nine (9) months when I discovered my menacing problem, I realized I just blew $4K. Nothing less than a free replacement would have changed that idea. Once the basement HT is finished, this RPTV is considered a literal throw-away product. The cost to re-tube it is speculated at $700/tube, and for a total repair (of 2 tubes only) would be about $2K. This means the current value is about $1000 ($1500 at best).

 

[Tre B]

Just got a Panasonic PT-53WX42 53" Widescreen for Christmas, and heard about this site from a friend. It's my first widescreen so I'm trying to learn all I can about taking care of it. Does anyone else here have a Panasonic? If so, any input would be great. No problems so far, but I don't want to mess it up.

I know there are two calibration DVDs I can buy, but I'm curious as to whether I'd be better served doing that now, or having someone come out to calibrate it and adjust the projectors for me as that's a perk of the extended warranty that I got with the TV. I'm told that I need to have that done every 6 months.

Also, I've turned down the brightness, color, picture and sharpness settings on the set. What else should I be doing to keep from having burn-in issues? I know the little network labels in the bottom right corner are everywhere, how much of a burn-in problem are those things?

Thanks in advance.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Tre,
Congrats on the new TV! I also bought that model back in early December and love it for the most part. In fact, there seems to be lots of new Panny owners these days.
Anyway, you might want to add this recent thread to your reading list, if you haven't already:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...hreadid=116662
In general, the picture setting (ie. contrast or white level) is what you need to keep below 50% to prevent burn-in. And avoid static images as much as possible.
For best results, you should consider hiring for ISF calibration. The kind of calibration you'll likely get via your extended warranty/service plan is probably no better than what you can do yourself, if you're the tweaking type.
Enjoy!
_Man_

 

[Frank Grimes]

Do a lot of people have problems with burn in while using HTPC's, i.e. the taskbar?