Mass Technologies MP-17F (MTM w/Vifa D27 and P17)

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Jeff Meininger, Oct 30, 2002.

  1. Jeff Meininger

    Jeff Meininger Second Unit

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    I was asking questions about MTM kits on a thread in the "Local Meets" section, and Mark Hayenga suggested a Vifa P17/D25 combo. I started looking for kits or plans using these speakers. I found something close...
    Mass Technologies has plans titled "MP17-F" for a MTM tower using the 6.5" P17WJ and the 1" silk dome D27TG.
    http://www.mass.com.au/masssales/projects.htm
    http://www.mass.com.au/masssales/pdf/designs/mp17f.pdf
    Has anyone build this? If so, what do you have to say about the final result?
    The plans say next to nothing about the enclosure. I don't know much about crossover design, but I know that the baffle size and orientation of the drivers on the baffle have a lot to do with it. I find it odd that driver position and baffle size are not mentioned in the plans...
    Looks like it might be an interesting project, though.
     
  2. Hank Frankenberg

    Hank Frankenberg Cinematographer

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    Hi Jeff, you're correct, no cabinet plans, but all bare bones info of internal volume, ports, is enough. You chose the external dimensions and driver placement. There is a crossover schematic with notes, so that's really okay, but it may need some tweaking, which is getting close to crossover design, and that's the heavy stuff. If you'd like a proven design with good drivers, specific crossover design including parts, I have my usual suggestions for new DIYers:
    For lowest cost, highest bang-for-buck value, I recommend SCH towers. You've heard mine briefly when you were concentrating on listening to my Tempest sonosub. SCH has tweaked the design and I have a suggestion also. The will do a good job for you. If you want to listen some more, let me know.
    If you want to move up in sound quality for more $$, then I suggest GR Research as a great value for sound. E-mail me if you'd like.
     
  3. george king

    george king Supporting Actor

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    Hank,

    How much of an improvement is sound quality is the GR research AV1 over the SCH monitor kit. There is probably a roughly $200 difference in price between the SCH monitor and a basic AV1 (no blackhole, no caps upgrade).

    Is the difference in sound quality really huge or are the SCH kits about 85-90% the sound of the AV1s for about half the price?

    Thanks a bunch.

    George
     
  4. Hank Frankenberg

    Hank Frankenberg Cinematographer

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    George, you're into the VERY subjective area of personally-biased listening discernabilities and preferences. What are your goals - mainly 2-channel critical stereo listening with excellent front-end electronics? If so, IMO, always spend as much as possible on your L/R speakers. BTW, the entry level SCH monitor is $70/pair and the A/V-1 is $229/pair = $159 difference. That's all I can comment, because I haven't personally compared the two, but I'm certain the A/V-1's would be my recommendation for critical listening. If you want my opinion on the SCH towers vs the GR A/V-3, I have compared those.
    As always, your choice should be based on your main listening requirements, both media and electronics driven.
    Warning: if you get into DIY, there's a strong possibility that you will get hooked and you'll start with lower cost speakers for learning experiences, and then embark on an eternal upgrade journey. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA[​IMG]
     
  5. george king

    george king Supporting Actor

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    Hank,

    Well this is for a 50-50 music/HT system (currently using Kef Qs). I listen to a lot of jazz, female vocals (Holly Cole, Eva Cassidy, Pat Barber, etc), so the midrange is critical.

    I have no problem spending the money, but for the wife everything sounds the same ($25K system and ours) so getting audio upgrades "approved" is difficult.

    The system is a Rotel 1075 amp, Yamaha 995 receiver as preamp (will eventually be replaced with Outlaw, Rotel, or Adcom preamps), Sony CE 775 SACD player, Hitachi HDTV. So I guess you would say that it is not entry level, but is a step up, and I am looking for good combo (music-HT) speakers, that do not cost a fortune.

    Thanks

    (I know speakers are subjective but one can still get a rough idea by asking several people)
     
  6. Hank Frankenberg

    Hank Frankenberg Cinematographer

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    George, with that statement, I'll make a recommendation. Acknowledging the WAF influence is critical. Since that will seriously curb any constant upgrade tendencies, and money is not much of an issue, I'd recommend the GR Research A/V-1+'s. Your 2-channel music listening does require quality, accurate speakers. For $71 more than the A/V-1's, you move up sound-wise. Excellent performing speaks, lower extension (F3 of 55 Hz for better subwoofer integration), and higher SPL capability for HT use. And, you might as well get the center channel version while you're at it. You'll be happy for years and then you can upgrade, hopefully with WAF approval.
    Go forth and make MDF dust and glue fumes.[​IMG]
    BTW, my daughter is there at TCU - sophomore in the med area, studying to be a nurse practitioner. Can you do something about the $100+ textbooks? And everything else while you're at it - it sure eats into my HT funds.[​IMG]
     
  7. george king

    george king Supporting Actor

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    Hank,
    Thanks for the info. Small world, and I wonder if I ever had her in class since I teach intro psych every semester, and teach the psychopharmacology course that is fairly popular with nursing students. What is your daughter's name, and tell her to drop by.
    I wish I could do something about the costs. The only thing I know is that that money certainly does not go to Professors' salaries [​IMG] (which is why money is something of an issue, but I have no problem spending up to about $1k on speakers).
     
  8. Hank Frankenberg

    Hank Frankenberg Cinematographer

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    George, my daughter's first name is Holly. Same last name.
    I'll send her a link to this thread. BTW, if you want to hear some high value for performance monitors, she has three of the first SCH better monitors that I built 2 years ago and veneered in rosewood. She might let you borrow them for a day or so.

    I'll stick with my recommendation of a pair of GR Research A/V-1+'s (I've listened to them) and one of the center channel version. You could drive up to Iowa Park (outside Wichita Falls) and audition them at GR Research. You might find that you like them or another model - who knows?
    Happy hunting!
     
  9. Jeff Meininger

    Jeff Meininger Second Unit

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    Hank: yeah, the SCH and AV3 have been my frontrunner choices since I first came upon one of your posts suggesting them.
    If I needed speakers ASAP, I'd pick one of those two kits and be done with it. I have lots and lots of time to design, build, test, and tweak these, though. I won't really be able to set them up for use in the HT until we move to a house with a living room layout that doesn't suck so badly. We won't be moving anytime soon.
    So, I'm in it for the fun of building. A long, arduous process might be better than a quick and easy build. Crossover tweaking sounds like fun, but knowing there are finished speakers sitting in a closet sounds like torture. [​IMG]
     
  10. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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    Jeff,
    What size cabinet can you live with? And is the $1K figure for building a stereo pair?
    I possibly have an interesting alternative.
    With any ~25" tall box, one must put them on stands to get the tweeter at the proper height. So why not just built a mini-tower? The amount of floor space used is the same, and the larger box allows for much better low frequency extension.
    Hi Hank.......[​IMG]
     
  11. Jeff Meininger

    Jeff Meininger Second Unit

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    I didn't say anything about $1k... that was george king threadjacking. [​IMG] (just kidding, george)
    My budget is more like $150 - $175 per speaker for drivers and XO components. I'm 100% sure I want towers. Othwerwise, I'm leaning towards an MTM design with 6.5" (or maybe 7") drivers and a 1" fabric dome.
    I'm not too concerned with low frequency extension since my receiver's lowest subwoofer XO setting is 80 Hz.
     
  12. george king

    george king Supporting Actor

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    Hank,

    Thanks for the reply. About the $1K, after Hank recommended the AV-1+, I went to Danny's site, and the cost of prebuilt AV-1+s with the blackhole and caps upgrade is a little under $1K. I would drive up to Iowa Park, but it is about 2 hours 1 way, and it would be difficult to tell my wife - Honey, I am disappearing for the day to listen to speakers - her response would be "Why do we need speakers, ours sound just fine.

    I know my limitations. Carpentry I can do - I just finished enclosing the porch and hanging the sheetrock - now all I have to do is a little more mudding, and the room will be ready for "decoration", but woodworking is beyond me. I do not have the skills or tools, so at the very least, I would have to have someone do the cutouts for the cabinents, if not build the cabinents themselves. At that point, I may as well spend the extra $100 and get them built.
     
  13. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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    Jeff
    Sorry my bad, got confused.....
    George
    If you want a sub $1K DIY MTM design that will lay waste to most $3K-$5K designs let me know. We have a MTM version of THIS in the works and it is an astounding loudspeaker. Please note that I'm not selling anything, just showing you a pure DIY project.
     
  14. Chris Carswell

    Chris Carswell Supporting Actor

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    Thomas, let us know when you get those MTM's done. I'd like to see the info on them [​IMG]
    Jeff, if you are looking to build some cheap MTM towers check mine out. At $45 each for 2 drivers, 1 tweeter, & 1 xover they lay waste to anything in that price range!
     
  15. Ashley Carr

    Ashley Carr Auditioning

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    Referring to the orignial post, I've got a set of speakers at home with a very similar design. Uses two P17s and a D25AG (1" Aluminium dome) tweeter.
    It's actually a 2.5 way design though, with one one of the P17s having a low pass of 200Hz. Very nice sounding speakers for the money I paid (~$500 AU for drivers and x-overs). If I had the choice I might have used a soft dome instead of a metal dome for the tweeter though.
    The design came from Jaycar. The kit name is JV60.
    It's a vented design using two ports per cabinet, and has an F3 of around 35Hz I think.
    I've got full enclosure and x-over designs if anyone would like them.
     
  16. Chris Carswell

    Chris Carswell Supporting Actor

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    Sounds cool. I always wanted to compare a 2-way to a 2.5-way.
     

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