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Mary Tyler Moore episode edited (1 Viewer)

Ben Motley

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Can someone who has the set confirm that there is no such warning/disclaimer listed in the liner notes or stamped somewhere on the packaging?
Exactly. I have several soundtrack cds that do just this. The Exorcist from FSM, Angel Heart, and some others I can't remember off the top of my head, but there are disclaimers on the packaging somewhere that explains the omission. Are the cd companies shooting themselves in the foot announcing the issue, and the reason for the issue? Maybe. Sure, some people may not buy the cd. But at least they're being up front. Would it have affected my decision had they let us know of the condition prior to the release of MTM? Maybe. I'd much rather be able to make an educated purchase than get snookered. I guess that's why I scour the net before I buy anything, but what about the average consumer who doesn't?

But that's not the whole reason for my anger at this. As I said, it sets a precedent. David Lambert, you mention both the money factor and the competition factor. I know that because of industry ownership change-ups over the years, rights issues get muddled, but are we so far removed from the "days of VHS" that we can't do a proper job on dvd? Okay, I admit it, I don't have any examples, and I'm not 110% sure, but my assumption is that this wasn't such a big problem for t.v. shows on VHS. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong - fine. But I cannot rememeber ever hearing about anything like this on VHS. I'm sure there are examples to the contrary, I'm just saying that on VHS, it seems it would have been the exception, whereas on dvd, it is becoming the norm, and I personally can't live with that norm. If my favorite t.v. shows are going to be butchered on dvd, well, there is so much other stuff I can buy that I want just as bad. No thank you, I'll watch the shows on t.v. reruns if I can find 'em, and, if they're butchered for t.v. as well, then I just won't watch 'em. These shows are time capsules, and nostalgia is a huge factor for many in buying these. When a product is presented in an altered form, the nostalgia factor is compromised.

David, thanks for your words above, and don't take this personally. You're a cool guy, and I've always read your posts with respect and 100% attention, but in your consideration of the industry on this issue, you've left the consumer out of the equation. Are my concerns unfounded? I don't think so, yet you express no sympathy whatsoever for the problem, only giving credence to the industry. I can understand the problems behind the issue, but I only wish there were something that could be done, rather than settling for an inferior product. Maybe my standards are too damned high, but I hold the industry accountable for quality product. If the rights are shuffled back and forth, more and more of the content being compromised, then it is just not a good system.

Some of you think that this is a trivial matter, and consumers are "silly", or whatever, for letting this factor into their purchase decision. All I can say is do you read condensed, Readers Digest versions of or abridged books? Do you buy new recordings of classic scores rather than original soundtracks? Do you watch the colorized "It's a Wonderful Life"? Do you watch the condensed, two hour "Shogun"? That's fine and dandy for you if you do, but for me, I just have higher standards.
 

Jaime_Weinman

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I'll watch the shows on t.v. reruns if I can find 'em, and, if they're butchered for t.v. as well, then I just won't watch 'em.
They will be. No channel in the U.S. shows older shows uncut. (Nick at Nite for example cuts out three or four minutes from a typical "Mary Tyler Moore" episode.) Which is why DVD is the last hope of older TV shows to be shown in something like their original form.

Anyway, I agree with the principle you articulate in your post, but let's remember that we're talking about one episode that's had a few seconds cut out of it (not several minutes, as in syndication-level cutting). There are still 23 other uncut episodes in the set that can be enjoyed. On the other hand, I freely admit that I would refuse to buy a DVD set where all or a large proportion of the episodes came from cut versions.

BTW, this pretty much was the norm for TV shows on VHS. It's just that we didn't hear about it as much, because TV on VHS didn't have a big following. Examples: The VHS release of Police Squad! changed music in two episodes, really ineptly (dubbing over "Happy Birthday" with a generic substitute, and redubbing Frank Drebin's voice so he no longer sang "Over the Rainbow). A VHS set devoted to WKRP episodes included several episodes taken from edited syndication versions, not to mention music changes galore. There are other examples, because studios traditionally didn't take care of their old TV shows and just threw them onto VHS in whatever versions were handy. Things are quite a bit better now, at least on DVD.
 

Ben Motley

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Thanks for addressing the VHS vs. DVD issue Jaime. I may be off base on that. I guess another reason consumer awareness of VHS releases wasn't as widespread as it is of dvd releases is the presence of the internet and a high level of usage. Yeah, the internet was around for thae tail end of VHS's heydey, but participation was nothing like it is today.

As for the MTM, again, it's not just the one song on one show that irks me. I understand the set may be exceptional except for that one blemmish. I'm just saying that I don't like the idea as an industry standard.
 

Steve Phillips

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I'm just glad they didn't crop this 32 year old TV series for fake widescreen!
It's a great set. While I wish the Xmas show was complete, at least the other 23 are uncut. Add the extras, and I'm still very happy. :D :D
 

Rain

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I'm not saying that I'm not still going to enjoy the set.
The point is the principle.
Releasing something as "The Complete First Season," knowing it is edited and not mentioning it, is very inappropriate.
 

Damin J Toell

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Ben:
Releasing something as "The Complete First Season," knowing it is edited and not mentioning it, is very inappropriate.
Seriously, what would you have them call it, then? "All Of The Episodes That Ran During The First Season, But Not Necessarily Containg Every Single Second Of Each Episode"?

DJ
 

David Von Pein

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"All Of The Episodes That Ran During The First Season, But Not Necessarily Containing Every Single Second Of Each Episode"?
That's funny. This is exactly what my boxed set says! :laugh:
I guess Fox could have also used: "The (Pert-Near) Complete First Season".
 

Ben Motley

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Seriously, what would you have them call it, then? "All Of The Episodes That Ran During The First Season, But Not Necessarily Containg Every Single Second Of Each Episode"?
No. Fox could have said "Due to licensing restrictions, the song 'White Christmas' has unfortunately had to be removed from episode 'insert episode title here'". Is that so hard?
Damin, I've already conceded that I'm probably wrong about the VHS vs. DVD argument, which I thought it would also be apparent that I agreed this issue doesn't set the precedent, but I guess I need to post an official statement, a retraction of that first post...
I do so hereby agree that this MTM release doesn't set the precedent. I was wrong.
That doesn't mean I like it any more than I did before though. :p)
 

MatthewA

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I have this episode on a 1992 MTM Home video tape, and shall keep the tape to watch the missing segment (I haven't watched it in years, so I don't know whether or not it has it). When the time comes, I switch the receiver to VCR and switch it back to DVD for the end credits.
 

Glenn Overholt

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That's too bad that the song isn't in that episode, but I would really like to know exactly what happened, and if it was money, how much.

Glenn
 

Marty M

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"The (Pert-Near) Complete First Season".
This is exactly what it said on my set. This is an expression my mother used to use all the time, but never saw it spelled out. Way too much is being made about this. Given the choice between a set with 99.9999% complete or no set at all, I choose the 99.9999% complete set every time.
 

Rain

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No. Fox could have said "Due to licensing restrictions, the song 'White Christmas' has unfortunately had to be removed from episode 'insert episode title here'". Is that so hard?
That would have been fine.

Or they could have been more honest and said "Due to the fact that we don't want to pay royalties..."

Seriously I don't expect that much honesty, but they should have mentioned the edit somewhere on the packaging.
 

Rob P S

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WKRP also had a Christmas episode where Venus Flytrap sings the first half-line of "White Christmas" before changing it to "Jingle Bells". Of course that scene is edited out of the Nick-at-Nite version, along with a scene of Venus and Jennifer listening to Della Reese singing "Merry Christmas Baby".:frowning:
 

Dene

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I agree that no one, me included, likes edits. However, this is a terrific release and I'm certain that this must be a copyright issue.

There are 24 episodes in this set plus many great extras -- I seriously doubt we're going to get another version, so what's the big deal?

Surely no one is alluding that there was any lack of thought going in to this release -- the presentation is superb!
 

John Berggren

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It is highly unfortunate that this has been edited. Can we expect further quiet edits in the future? What more would I have had to pay for her to sing White Christmas? Surely not more than a single of Bing Crosby singing the same.
 

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