Marvel's The Punisher Season 1 (Netflix) (1 Viewer)

[TravisR]

November 17

 

[Sean Bryan]

November 17

I'm going to avoid this final trailer, but it's great news that the show hasn't been delayed too long from the original plan.

Looking forward to it.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

The Punisher isn't my favorite Marvel character, but Steve Lightfoot comes into this with arguably the best pedigree of any showrunner since Steven S. DeKnight.

Mainly, I'm just relieved that it's not Scott Buck.

 

[Sam Favate]

Reviews are starting to come in (the show drops Friday), and they are mostly positive.
https://mcuexchange.com/critic-review-the-punisher-netflix/

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

It's at 76% fresh on Rotten Tomatoes right now. That's better than "Inhumans" & "Iron Fist" and about the same as "The Defenders", but below the first three stand-alone series ("Daredevil", "Jessica Jones", "Luke Cage").

The scuttlebutt I've heard is that it doesn't get off to the best start but steadily improves as the season goes on.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Well, has anybody started watching this series?

 

[Josh Dial]

Well, has anybody started watching this series?

Just finished episode 1. I'll be binging the season tonight and tomorrow, and hopefully posting my thoughts as I go.

 

[sleroi]

I just finished the first episode and I really enjoyed it.

I was afraid it might be an origin story, and I really didn't need to see an innocent family get killed again. But it started with him already as the punisher. A few brief flashbacks, I'm sure there'll be more as the series progresses, but nothing melodramatic or voyeuristic or uncomfortable for such a tragic circumstance. Brief and to the point and these flashbacks serve only to inform the character.

Stylistically it lookes great and I like the characters. It sets up a little bit of intrigue and while theres not much action until the end, its worth the wait.

Ill probably watch the whole series this weekend.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Just finished the third episode. So far I'd put it above "Iron Fist" and "The Defenders" but below all of the other Netflix/Marvel collaborations.

On the plus side, it's very much its own animal. By "The Defenders", I was starting to get a sense that these NYC street-level shows were becoming much of a sameness, falling into a formula and getting too bogged down with the magic and mythology of the Hand. This show, at least so far, doesn't have any science fiction or fantasy elements at all. It references the Punisher-centric events of "Daredevil" Season 2, and features Deborah Ann Woll as Karen Page, but otherwise there's no indication that this takes place in the Marvel Cinematic Universe at all. The writers seem to be pretty stringent about playing within real world rules, stretching the bounds of plausibility and physics only in the way that virtually all action movies do.

On the down side, it has real pacing problems. All of the Marvel/Netflix stand-alone series have felt padded in spots, but this is far and away the worst offender so far. Worst are the scenes with Amber Rose Revah's DHS agent. The first few episodes let us know that she served as a DHS attaché to some U.S. operations in Afghanistan, and was friends with the Afghan police officer that Frank was tricked into killing prior to the events of "Daredevil". And then, through several variations of the same conversation, this information is hammered home over and over and over again. With Frank at least, the repetition has some dramatic weight; it speaks volumes about his character that he is trapped in the same patterns. But elsewhere in the show, repetition just feels repetitive, like the writers don't trust the audience to get what is thus far a pretty basic plot.

For a show called "The Punisher", it is surprisingly sedate most of the time. Only on the handful of occasions where Frank taps into his most primal place and becomes a force of nature does the show really come alive. Unlike the rather lackluster fights in "The Defenders," when Frank does his thing it has real impact. In terms of structure, the show most reminds me of "Justified". But so far this lacks that show's wonderful dialog, characters and plot turns.

The toughest thing with a Punisher series is that the protagonist is essentially static; he can't move past his PTSD from his wartime experience and the brutal murders of his family. That's the defining element of his character, in much the same way the death of Bruce Wayne's parents is the driving force that fuels the Batman. If he ever does get his head on straight, he ceases to be the Punisher. Given that, some of the choices the show made with Micro and the parallels between the two of them were really smart. Frank's tragic backstory is fixed, but others still have the chance for a happier ending.

And I appreciate that it's a show that takes the physical and mental health consequences of war seriously. Most of the characters on the show served overseas in one capacity or another, and all are affected in some way.

I was afraid it might be an origin story, and I really didn't need to see an innocent family get killed again. But it started with him already as the punisher. A few brief flashbacks, I'm sure there'll be more as the series progresses, but nothing melodramatic or voyeuristic or uncomfortable for such a tragic circumstance. Brief and to the point and these flashbacks serve only to inform the character.

"Daredevil" Season 2 basically told his origin story, even though his family was already dead by the time he was introduced.

 

[Josh Dial]

...of the Marvel/Netflix stand-alone series have felt padded in spots, but this is far and away the worst offender so far...

I can't disagree with this enough. The Punisher is far and away the least padded of the Netflix shows. Every scene advances the plot (either the episode arc or the series arc), character development, and/or character backstory. There are exactly zero filler episodes.

I saw none of the repetition you did--even the action sequences were different (and differently brutal).

Like Luke Cage and (to a certain extent) Jessica Jones, The Punisher has a lot to say. I think it delivers completely.

I'll post more comments once more members have had a chance to finish the season.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I'm in the middle of the third episode, but I have to agree with Josh and disagree with Adam about this series so far.

 

[Sam Favate]

Haven't been able to get to this over the weekend, but I will be watching this week. Your comments have me more intrigued than I was. (I've never been a big fan of the Punisher, although his portrayal in DD S2 was very good.)

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

I wish I was enjoying it as much as you, Josh; I might just not be the right audience for Steve Lightfoot's writing. I know a lot of people who loved the latter seasons of "Hannibal", but after being engrossed by that show's first season, I found the subsequent seasons self-indulgent, overly stylized and languidly paced.

I will say that this has gotten better as it's gone along for me. I've watched through episode five now. Without spoiling anything, there's a key moment at the end of episode four that finally got me invested with Agent Madani's side of the story, introducing some of the complexities that the Kimble-Gerard dynamic featured in the latter seasons of "The Fugitive".

The action scenes continue to be impactful and inventive. The fifth episode reminded me a lot of what I'd hoped a "Shooter" TV series would be, after loving the deliciously implausible Mark Wahlberg movie.

I was worried that the show would use Karen Page as a love interest for Frank, in much the same way that she's a love interest for Matt Murdock on "Daredevil". But the show found a more interesting dynamic instead; she's Frank's ally, but she despairs for him. She aids what he's doing, but she has serious reservations about what he's doing. There's a sweetness between them, but Frank will never get over his dead wife and Karen has too much self-esteem to get too entangled with a man as damaged as Frank is.

It's still sitting behind "Luke Cage" on my personal rankings, though. A strong back half might nudge it past, since "Luke Cage" had a strong first half and a weaker second half.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I'm liking this more than you Josh. I'm in the middle of episode four now and will have that completed sometime today. I'm trying not to binge watch this show like I did with Stranger Things and the other The Defenders related shows. One thing is obvious is that just about all the major characters are haunted by their past experiences.

 

[Sam Favate]

I never liked the Punisher, at least not as a hero (or anti-hero). I always associated his popularity in the 80s with Bernard Goetz (1984 New York subway shooter who shot kids trying to rob him) and right-wing fantasies about self-defense. For those reasons I never had any interest in the Punisher movies with Dolph Lungren or Thomas Jane. They just seemed like generic macho revenge thrillers to me.

I liked the portrayal of the character in Daredevil, and Jon Bernthal was a good choice. I watched episode 1 of The Punisher, and I will finish the series, because this was not just a revenge thriller. The Punisher is portrayed as a very troubled man, who sees no way out of his situation. Bernthal really plays it well; you feel the anguish.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I wish I was enjoying it as much as you, Josh; I might just not be the right audience for Steve Lightfoot's writing. I know a lot of people who loved the latter seasons of "Hannibal", but after being engrossed by that show's first season, I found the subsequent seasons self-indulgent, overly stylized and languidly paced.

I will say that this has gotten better as it's gone along for me. I've watched through episode five now. Without spoiling anything, there's a key moment at the end of episode four that finally got me invested with Agent Madani's side of the story, introducing some of the complexities that the Kimble-Gerard dynamic featured in the latter seasons of "The Fugitive".

The action scenes continue to be impactful and inventive. The fifth episode reminded me a lot of what I'd hoped a "Shooter" TV series would be, after loving the deliciously implausible Mark Wahlberg movie.

I was worried that the show would use Karen Page as a love interest for Frank, in much the same way that she's a love interest for Matt Murdock on "Daredevil". But the show found a more interesting dynamic instead; she's Frank's ally, but she despairs for him. She aids what he's doing, but she has serious reservations about what he's doing. There's a sweetness between them, but Frank will never get over his dead wife and Karen has too much self-esteem to get too entangled with a man as damaged as Frank is.

It's still sitting behind "Luke Cage" on my personal rankings, though. A strong back half might nudge it past, since "Luke Cage" had a strong first half and a weaker second half.

I agree with your take on Karen. He needs her not to be just an ally, but a friend that can help him with some clarity and conscious.

 

[sleroi]

I really enjoyed the first episode. It worked on a lot of levels. The flashbacks worked to set things up, inform the characters. The introduction of the DHS agents set the overarching plot in motion. The mystery man watching finding Frank was an intriguing conclusion.

But most importantly, there was a self contained plot about the new kid making bad decisions, and Frank punishing all parties involved. Frank was the punisher.

Unfortunately in the next couple of episodes its just been plot, back story, conspiracy theory.

I hope the payoff is eventually worth the slow setup, but I was hoping the series would follow the way of the first episode. Have an overarching plot slowly develop while having Frank punish criminals in self contained story lines.

Ill keep watching, but I'm a bit disappointed after such a great first episode.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Well, I'm through eight episodes. I'm enjoying it, but it's not the type of series I like to binge watch so I'm taking more time. I'll probably be done with it by the end of next week.

 

[Clinton McClure]

I really enjoyed the first episode. It worked on a lot of levels. The flashbacks worked to set things up, inform the characters. The introduction of the DHS agents set the overarching plot in motion. The mystery man watching finding Frank was an intriguing conclusion.

But most importantly, there was a self contained plot about the new kid making bad decisions, and Frank punishing all parties involved. Frank was the punisher.

Unfortunately in the next couple of episodes its just been plot, back story, conspiracy theory.

I hope the payoff is eventually worth the slow setup, but I was hoping the series would follow the way of the first episode. Have an overarching plot slowly develop while having Frank punish criminals in self contained story lines.

Ill keep watching, but I'm a bit disappointed after such a great first episode.

I gave up part way through episode five. After a fantastic first episode, the show became very tedious and dull to me.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Well, I'm through eight episodes. I'm enjoying it, but it's not the type of series I like to binge watch so I'm taking more time. I'll probably be done with it by the end of next week.

Same here. I binge watched each of the other Marvel/Netflix collaborations over the course of a weekend, four to five episodes at a time. I watched the second and third episodes back-to-back last Saturday, but since then I've been sticking to one episode a day. I find it helps minimize my issues with the show's pacing, and by watching it in the early evening I'm not forcing myself to stay awake to get through it. In retrospect, I wish I'd adopted the same strategy for "The Defenders"; I think I would have gotten more out of it.

I also just finished episode eight. The next few episodes will be the real test. In the other standalone series, this was about the point in the season where the shows started to introduce contrived, gratuitous obstacles to make the protagonist especially miserable and artificially delay the final confrontation with the Big Bad. Hopefully this show avoids that.