Disney+ Black Widow (2021) (1 Viewer)

[Adam Lenhardt]

The trailer makes clear that Rachel Weisz is playing Scarlett Johansson's mother. Scarlett is 35; Weisz just turned 50.

I don't know what we should take Harbour's character's comment literally. She's certainly a maternal figure in Natasha's life, but I don't think she's literally her biological mother, just as Yelena isn't literally her biological sister.

I find this ‘should have been released before Endgame’ mindset completely stupid. If the story is good, who cares how it ‘fits in’.

I agree that if it's a good movie then it's a good movie. I do find the timing odd, though.

What I am really hoping is that they can tie her death to this film in some clever way. Maybe a jump forward past Endgame where her will is shared and it involved the characters we meet in this prequel film. Or even one of the standard Marvel characters - Hawkeye would be ideal just to close that story.

That was my thought as well; there has to be something in this movie that help move the MCU forward, even if the majority of it is spent wrapping Natasha's story up.

I haven't read a comic book in years, but it's a fairly standard storytelling device to drop a flashback story anywhere in a timeline, isn't it? Like, the teaser to a TV show or movie shows something happening "now" and the the next 40 minutes are the "how did we get here" story.

The difference is that the main protagonist is almost always alive during the "now" scenes, and is often the one narrating the "before" scenes.

I feel like the box office is going to be softer than most MCU movies (certainly the late April/early May releases), and there's any number of reasons, but the media/critics/internet will only focus on a few reasons. Although maybe they'll just blame it on coronavirus instead.

I think this actually has the chance to do better than expectations, as the coronavirus clears out a lot of the competition. In particular, this and the latest Bond movie would have had a lot of crossover audience. Now Black Widow has those moviegoers to itself.

I'm guessing $80+ million opening weekend.

 

[Jason_V]

The difference is that the main protagonist is almost always alive during the "now" scenes, and is often the one narrating the "before" scenes.

Fair. Then my next logical question is does it even matter if the person is alive or not? Does knowing someone dies "in the future" diminish the emotional journey we're watching? If the answer is yes, then that's a problem for me.

 

[Jake Lipson]

I feel like the box office is going to be softer than most MCU movies (certainly the late April/early May releases), and there's any number of reasons, but the media/critics/internet will only focus on a few reasons. Although maybe they'll just blame it on coronavirus instead.

I'm pretty sure that Black Widow was never intended to open in May.

Marvel originally had dates in May, July and November 2020 reserved, but then the James Gunn situation happened. It's pretty clear to me that Black Widow would have had the July date If Guardians was on the schedule, but then they slotted it for May because maintaining their traditional foothold on the first weekend of May is important. It wouldn't surprise me if the internal expectations were for it to perform more along the lines of Marvel's past July releases than their recent early summer ones, and that's fine. Disney knows this will not repeat the level of success that Infinity War and Endgame did, but they don't need it to do that. I don't know what the budget on this was, but I'm sure it was more modestly priced than those films. I don't foresee a problem with Black Widow becoming a profitable hit, but Marvel has always been able to make films work on different levels depending on what the franchise is (Avengers being the high end and Ant-Man being the low end, but both being successful relative to how much they put into the movie.)

 

[Chip_HT]

That feels different to me, but sure it's an apt comparison. I could probably articulate a number of reasons, but I don't think I'd do a very good job of it. It feels very different though.

Probably the perceptions of the franchises. Star Wars started as one movie that expanded outward. Marvel is a set of separate franchises that all came together to form a larger megafranchise. With Star Wars, even new movies or shows that feature previously unseen characters (Rogue One or the Mandalorian) still feel like spinoffs. But with the MCU, a new movie like Eternals doesn't feel like a spinoff as much as a new piece being added to the tapestry.

 

[Chip_HT]

I'm pretty sure that Black Widow was never intended to open in May.

Exactly. GotG 3 in May would have been the next tentpole of the MCU, and allow Black Widow to be the "smaller" late summer/fall film, keeping the pattern we've seen in most years. (Ant-Man following Avengers twice, Dr. Strange following Civil War, an unknown/unproven Guardians following Winter Soldier.)

 

[Keith Cobby]

Fair. Then my next logical question is does it even matter if the person is alive or not? Does knowing someone dies "in the future" diminish the emotional journey we're watching? If the answer is yes, then that's a problem for me.

I asked my 12 year old son if he had watched the trailer. He was very dismissive and said she was already dead. I admit to not being a big Marvel fan and think the film will do badly. Not sure why but it reminded me of Power Rangers.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I, for one is looking forward to seeing this movie. This latest trailer peaked my interest even more now. Sorry, I’m a sucker for hot women kicking ass.

 

[Neil Middlemiss]

It’s also on track for a more than $100MM opening. I think it’ll be just fine.

 

[Jason_V]

I asked my 12 year old son if he had watched the trailer. He was very dismissive and said she was already dead. I admit to not being a big Marvel fan and think the film will do badly. Not sure why but it reminded me of Power Rangers.

I make it a point not to argue with 12 year old's.

Original point still stands, though. If the problem is "she's dead" (or, more broadly, we know Black Widow's endgame), the same logic can be applied to any story. Every character dies. Period. With this one in particular, we happen to know how she dies. This, of course, means, the stakes in this movie aren't BW's death, but something else.

Does knowing "she's dead" mean there aren't more stories to tell with that character? Nope. Does it mean those stories aren't compelling? Nope.

I frankly think something else is going on here, but I have no evidence of the theory right now.

 

[Jeff Cooper]

So what exactly is the timeline for this movie? We see Taskmaster watching Iron Man 2 in the trailer, so at least the "now" is between that and Endgame. Or is that the flashback part and the "now" is post endgame? If the "now" is pre endgame then will there be flashbacks to before Iron Man 1? And will there be .... oh no I've gone cross-eyed.

 

[Jason_V]

Does it even matter two months before release? Endgame played with the timeline and everyone seemed to love it. Why is it a problem with Black Widow? A lot of Marvel movies have played with time (Captain America is in two different time periods, Captain Marvel went backward in time to show her origin, etc.).

i have faith the movie will make sense to the people who are coming in for the first time and the long time fans. That's been largely how the MCU was built.

 

[dpippel]

I can certainly understand other points of view, but for me, Natasha's story arc was completed in Endgame. Marvel spent a lot of time building her character up to the culminating events on Vormir and for me, emotionally, she's done. I really have no desire to see her in a solo film set years before her death. It just seems superfluous. This is probably the first Marvel film that I'll skip seeing in the theater.

 

[Joe Wong]

I would like to think that, besides giving Natasha her long overdue solo film, Black Widow provides some other connections and future implications for the MCU. Whether it be Natasha passing the mantle to Yelena, or Ross (Hurt) having some impact, or something else.

For me, the MCU has now set the expectation of how each new film all fits into the grand scheme.

 

[Sam Favate]

So what exactly is the timeline for this movie? We see Taskmaster watching Iron Man 2 in the trailer, so at least the "now" is between that and Endgame. Or is that the flashback part and the "now" is post endgame? If the "now" is pre endgame then will there be flashbacks to before Iron Man 1? And will there be .... oh no I've gone cross-eyed.

Pretty sure the bulk of the film is set in the time between Civil War and Infinity War. I would also bet there would be a post-Endgame framing sequence.

 

[Jake Lipson]

We are seven weeks away from the release date and this is the first Disney title that has not yet been pushed because of the coronavirus.

I'd love to see the film in May if things are contained by then, but at this point I would not be surprised if it moves.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

I think Disney's really hoping the world's gotten a handle on the pandemic by then.

If the world hasn't gotten a handle on the pandemic by then, we'll all probably have much bigger problems than a movie being delayed.

 

[Jake Lipson]

Right. I just thought it was interesting that Black Widow is the only major upcoming title that they didn't include in their blanket delays this afternoon.

 

[Sam Favate]

They're going to see how things go over the next few weeks. It is very possible that BW will be delayed. Some sites are reporting that conversations have been had with Scarlett Johansson's agent to that end.

 

[Jason_V]

Right. I just thought it was interesting that Black Widow is the only major upcoming title that they didn't include in their blanket delays this afternoon.

Mulan was a March release. Antlers and New Mutants were April releases. (F9 was an April release...). Sounds like we're looking at a game where movies in the next 6 weeks get postponed. BW isn't there yet...but I have zero doubt it going to get pushed as well. Unless this is suddenly and miraculously contained/cured/whatever by the end of the month.

 

[Tino]

Will definitely be postponed.