MARVEL is bringing four new live-action shows to Netflix leading to a "Defenders event" (1 Viewer)

[Josh Dial]

Here's a link to the full interview with Jeph Loeb, from the original source. The full interview has some good general commentary on the industry: "There is stuff going on all the time. I think it’s also realistic to think when you have 11, 12, 14 shows that some of them are going to rest".

And like a dummy I forgot to actually include the link:
https://decider.com/2019/02/14/jeph-loeb-legion-marvel-tv-interview/

This interview, plus his statement on the Marvel site to which Sam linked is overall pretty positive for the future of these characters.

 

[DaveF]

What’s the current thinking? Netflix data tells them viewership has dropped off and it’s time to cancel all the MCU shows? Or this is all Disney/Marvel machinations readying the House of Mouse streaming service?

 

[TravisR]

What’s the current thinking? Netflix data tells them viewership has dropped off and it’s time to cancel all the MCU shows? Or this is all Disney/Marvel machinations readying the House of Mouse streaming service?

Considering the Marvel shows are by far Netflix's most talked about shows that I see on the internet and there are a hundred shows on Netflix I've never heard mentioned once, I don't think it's a viewership problem. Disney and Marvel are taking their stuff back.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

I would say the truth is somewhere in between the two: "Iron Fist" never achieved the buzz/critical acclaim Netflix was looking for, despite a much improved second season, so they cancelled it. Then there were creative disagreements between Netflix and Marvel over "Luke Cage", and neither side had much incentive to compromise their positions. After "Luke Cage", it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that this partnership was over.

 

[Sam Favate]

What’s the current thinking? Netflix data tells them viewership has dropped off and it’s time to cancel all the MCU shows? Or this is all Disney/Marvel machinations readying the House of Mouse streaming service?

From every report, it's Netflix that has decided it doesn't want to be in the Marvel business anymore. Marvel would have continued with these shows on Netflix, according to all the showrunners and Marvel TV execs. And viewership may have declined over the years, but these are still some of Netflix's most-watched programs. Daredevil was its No. 3, according to reports that surfaced after its cancellation.

Maybe Netflix felt that with Disney's new streaming service competing, Disney would not support the promotion of their shows, and at the same time, those shows surely got more expensive. So maybe Netflix saw diminishing returns on the horizon.

I would say the truth is somewhere in between the two: "Iron Fist" never achieved the buzz/critical acclaim Netflix was looking for, despite a much improved second season, so they cancelled it. Then there were creative disagreements between Netflix and Marvel over "Luke Cage", and neither side had much incentive to compromise their positions. After "Luke Cage", it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that this partnership was over.

I never bought the explanation that Luke Cage was cancelled for "creative differences." You fire people over creative differences, you change teams, you even hire new actors. You don't cancel a show over creative differences. I have never heard of a show being cancelled for that reason.

 

[Jason_V]

From every report, it's Netflix that has decided it doesn't want to be in the Marvel business anymore. Marvel would have continued with these shows on Netflix, according to all the showrunners and Marvel TV execs. And viewership may have declined over the years, but these are still some of Netflix's most-watched programs. Daredevil was its No. 3, according to reports that surfaced after its cancellation.

This. Based on the tweets, posts and stories out there, this wasn't a Marvel/Disney decision. This was Netflix all the way. And yes, I 100% believe it is tied to Disney+. With everything Disney leaving Netflix this year, why would Netflix continue to license these IP's for content they don't own...and which can be seen as marketing for a competitor?

Punisher and Jessica Jones should not have been a shock after Daredevil, Iron Fist and Luke Cage.

 

[TravisR]

This. Based on the tweets, posts and stories out there, this wasn't a Marvel/Disney decision. This was Netflix all the way. And yes, I 100% believe it is tied to Disney+. With everything Disney leaving Netflix this year, why would Netflix continue to license these IP's for content they don't own...and which can be seen as marketing for a competitor?

To keep subscribers by keeping some of their most popular programs.

 

[Jason_V]

To keep subscribers by keeping some of their most popular programs.

Is there any data which suggests subscribers are signing up for Netflix solely for the Marvel shows? The amount of money they get from the subscribers interested only in these shows wouldn't begin to cover the cost of the shows.

 

[TravisR]

Is there any data which suggests subscribers are signing up for Netflix solely for the Marvel shows? The amount of money they get from the subscribers interested only in these shows wouldn't begin to cover the cost of the shows.

Netflix is the king of the hill so they probably won't lose too many subscribers over this. However, it makes no sense to get rid of a show that your subscribers actually watch (especially when a small percentage of Netflix's shows are actually popular). I see no other sensible explanation than Marvel is taking their characters back so they can have the ability to use them on their own streaming service if they want at some point. All that being said, it wouldn't be the first time that someone made a stupid decision.

 

[Jason_V]

It's not Marvel. We've been told that. Over and over again by actors and showrunners and, most importantly, Netflix.

https://deadline.com/2019/02/the-pu...arvel-krysten-ritter-jon-bernthal-1202535835/

“In addition, in reviewing our Marvel programming, we have decided that the upcoming third season will also be the final season for Marvel’s Jessica Jones,” Netflix also made official this President’s Day.

 

[TravisR]

I still don't believe that it's as cut and dry as they somehow came to the conclusion that cancelling some of their most popular shows was a good idea or even corporate revenge against Disney but if that's the story they're telling, that's the story they're telling.

 

[Jason_V]

Believe it or not, that's the information we have.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

If both sides are interested in making a deal, both sides are incentivized to compromise. With Disney+ launching, neither side was incentivized to make a deal.

At the time that Marvel and Netflix agreed to the Defenders deal, 13-episode seasons were pretty standard on streaming, and content from outside studios constituted the overwhelming majority of content.

In 2019, 10-episode seasons have become the standard for Netflix, and it produces a significant portion of its original programming in-house.

After the rough reception "Iron Fist" S1 got, Marvel bent a little and agreed to a 10-episode second season. But for the other shows, it was pretty adamant about 13-episode seasons, which give ABC Studios more options for later distribution through other means (disc, syndication, etc.) From what I understand, Netflix was ready to pull the trigger on a 10-episode third season of "Luke Cage", but the writers were operating under a mandate from Disney to deliver a 13-episode season. The relationship was already fraying at that point, in the aftermath of the "Iron Fist" cancellation, and Disney wasn't willing to accommodate Netflix's revised terms for renewal.

After that, Netflix was pretty settled on cancelling. I'm sure part of their reasoning is to send a message to other outside studios that they're not going to get to dictate the terms of Netflix original programming.

 

[DaveF]

Wow! Great discussion! Thanks!

 

[Sam Favate]

This is a pretty thorough piece about Disney and Netflix's tense relationship and Marvel being in the middle. There are likely to be more changes as new streaming services start up (Warner, Comcast) and Netflix loses more shows (Friends, The Office).

Netflix's Marvel Cancellations Signal Start of the New Streaming World Order

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/l...sher-were-canceled-1187789?utm_source=twitter

In short, it's easy to say that Netflix canceled its Marvel fare because of economics, the answer is much more complex than simple ownership as Disney and Netflix have not exactly been good bedfellows in the past year. So while Marvel may have been caught, at least partially, in the crossfire, media titans like Warners and Comcast may very well be next when it comes to pulling their respective content from Netflix as the new (streaming) world order takes over.

 

[Philip Verdieck]

If I am Netflix, why I am going to pay for the production of Marvel stuff that I can only get 1 year of use out of, then it goes over to the mouse?

Netflix subscribers aren't going to bail over this. And I don't think they will bail from Netflix once Disney+ is up and running unless they are "living in the basement 20+ year olds with comic collections in excess of thousands of issues who only watch superhero TV". That demographic won't sustain a streaming service.

Oh, and apparently there is comic burnout from the non-basement comic geek crowd. From the linked article above:

Netflix makes renewal and cancellation decisions based on viewership versus cost. Jessica Jones was an expensive series and, while Netflix doesn't release viewership data, a third-party measurement company tracked social media buzz and found that all of the Marvel series were down year-over-year. (That's pretty much the same narrative for broadcast and cable viewership.)

 

[Sam Favate]

Not much here, but Kevin Feige comments on the Marvel Netflix heroes:

Kevin Feige On The Future Of Marvel’s Netflix Heroes At Marvel Studios

“I don’t know. There were a lot of great characters that were on those Netflix series, and I think there is a period of time…it’ll be a while before we could use any of them based on what the contracts were, so I’m not sure. And also, even answering that question is a spoiler. But there are some great Marvel characters there.”

https://heroichollywood.com/kevin-feige-future-marvel-netflix/