General Discussion Marvel Cinematic Universe: Phase 5 General Discussion (Spoilers discussed for All Films -- Please Read First Post) (1 Viewer)

[Adam Lenhardt]

MCU Phase 1
MCU Phase 2
MCU Phase 3
MCU Phase 4

This thread will contain spoilers so if there is any MCU film you haven't seen yet, the reading of this thread is at your own peril. Again, MCU spoilers will be discussed in this thread without any warnings.

A general thread for discussion related to multiple MCU movies and TV shows in Phase 5.

Known titles for Phase 5 (last updated: 05/26/2023):

#	Title	Type	Release Date	Director	Writer	Status
1	Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania	Motion Picture	02/17/2023	Peyton Reed	Jeff Loveness	In Theaters
2	Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3	Motion Picture	05/05/2023	James Gunn	Kevin Feige	In Theaters
3	"Secret Invasion" Season 1	TV Series	06/21/2023	Thomas Bezucha and Ali Selim	Kyle Bradstreet	Post-production
4	"Loki" Season 2	TV Series	10/06/2023	Justin Benson & Aaron Moorhead	Eric Martin	Post-production
5	The Marvels	Motion Picture	11/10/2023	Nia DaCosta	Megan McDonnell, Nia DaCosta, Elissa Karasik, and Zeb Wells	Post-production
6	"What If...?" Season 2	TV Series	Late 2023	Bryan Andrews	A. C. Bradley	In Production
7	"Echo" Season 1	TV Series	Early 2024	Sydney Freeland and Catriona McKenzie	Marion Dayre	Post-production
8	"X-Men '97" Season 1	TV Series	Early 2024	TBA	Beau DeMayo	Post-production
9	Captain America: Brave New World	Motion Picture	07/26/2024	Julius Onah	Malcolm Spellman & Dalan Musson	Post-production
10	"Agatha: Darkhold Diaries" Season 1	TV Series	Fall 2024	Jac Schaeffer, Gandja Monteiro, and Rachel Goldberg	Jac Schaeffer	Post-production
11	Thunderbolts	Motion Picture	12/20/2024	Jake Schreier	Eric Pearson	Impacted by WGA Strike
12	Blade	Motion Picture	02/14/2025	Yann Demange	Michael Starrbury	Impacted by WGA Strike
13	"Daredevil: Born Again"	TV Series	TBD	TBA	Matt Corman & Chris Ord	Impacted by WGA Strike
14	"Ironheart" Season 1	TV Series	TBD	Sam Bailey and Angela Barnes	Chinaka Hodge	Post-production

Spoilers won't be needed for any MCU film, including new movies as soon as they release in North America.
Spoilers of MCU Disney+ series should be in spoiler tags until last episode of season has aired.

 

[Alex...]

A new rumour claims that any projects released between Doomsday and Secret Wars

Spoiler

will take place in the Patchwork Reality

 

[Sam Favate]

Or we could just have a street-level Spider-Man movie with Daredevil and the Kingpin that has nothing to do with outer space.

I have to say that the first Secret Wars series came at the tail-end of my comic book reading days, and it was an incentive to give it up. I could see that it was little more than a craven opportunity for more money. It gave readers a story where all the characters they loved came together but it was a story that made little sense. I have no idea what the series from 10 years ago was about, but hopefully it’s better, especially since it’s the basis for the next big Avengers film. I definitely don’t have fond memories of Secret Wars. (At least DC’s big crossover at the time, Crisis on Infinite Earths, honored the past and changed the future of that universe. Marvel’s did not. DC has now made that series in live action, both with the Arrowverse shows and last year’s Flash movie, which also featured every iteration of the company’s filmed product from the beginning. As good as I thought Deadpool & Wolverine was, it hit the same notes, albeit in a more entertaining fashion.)

 

[Jake Lipson]

I figured this would be as good a spot to post this as any.

 

[Desslar]

Or we could just have a street-level Spider-Man movie with Daredevil and the Kingpin that has nothing to do with outer space.

I have to say that the first Secret Wars series came at the tail-end of my comic book reading days, and it was an incentive to give it up. I could see that it was little more than a craven opportunity for more money. It gave readers a story where all the characters they loved came together but it was a story that made little sense. I have no idea what the series from 10 years ago was about, but hopefully it’s better, especially since it’s the basis for the next big Avengers film. I definitely don’t have fond memories of Secret Wars. (At least DC’s big crossover at the time, Crisis on Infinite Earths, honored the past and changed the future of that universe. Marvel’s did not. DC has now made that series in live action, both with the Arrowverse shows and last year’s Flash movie, which also featured every iteration of the company’s filmed product from the beginning. As good as I thought Deadpool & Wolverine was, it hit the same notes, albeit in a more entertaining fashion.)

I agree about keeping Spider-man out of space for the most part...

I come at Secret Wars from a different angle though. That was the first big company-wide event title I read, and I was thrilled by it at the time. Very cool to see all those characters in the same place. In retrospect, it isn't the most exciting of storylines - a lot of scenes of characters bickering amongst themselves - but it is memorable for several things:
Prominent roles for characters that weren't really A-list at the time (as far as I was aware) - Klaw, Molecule Man, etc.
Epic showdown between Doom and the Beyonder
Fantastic Mike Zeck artwork throughout
And the black Spidey suit of course

Not sure I really need to see a move about this, but I guess it could be fun, at least to see all those villains working together.

 

[TravisR]

I agree about keeping Spider-man out of space for the most part...

I come at Secret Wars from a different angle though. That was the first big company-wide event title I read, and I was thrilled by it at the time. Very cool to see all those characters in the same place. In retrospect, it isn't the most exciting of storylines - a lot of scenes of characters bickering amongst themselves - but it is memorable for several things:
Prominent roles for characters that weren't really A-list at the time (as far as I was aware) - Klaw, Molecule Man, etc.
Epic showdown between Doom and the Beyonder
Fantastic Mike Zeck artwork throughout
And the black Spidey suit of course

Not sure I really need to see a move about this, but I guess it could be fun, at least to see all those villains working together.

I don't think it matters whether the Secret Wars comic books are good or bad because the movies have never, to the best of my knowledge, truly adapted the comics. They use the broad strokes of that story and make the movie that they want.

 

[Desslar]

I don't think it matters whether the Secret Wars comic books are good or bad because the movies have never, to the best of my knowledge, truly adapted the comics. They use the broad strokes of that story and make the movie that they want.

And that's where things get confusing for me. It used to be (pre-2000?) that the relationship between comic book movies and comics, and other media (TV, etc.) was rather loose. They sometimes adopted ideas from each other, but not in any consistent way, and in general seemed to be free to do whatever they wanted to do. That seemed fine to me - multiple continuities, character designs, etc. to enjoy.

In the case of today's Marvel, it seems like the movies still go their own way, occasionally adapting story elements from the comics. But, unless I'm mistaken, it appears that the main comic titles, TV shows, etc. closely follow the continuity established in the movies. I would have thought the adaptations (movies) would follow the lead of the source material (comics), rather than the other way around.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

And the black Spidey suit of course

It's crazy that we finally have an opportunity to tell Venom's origin story right on the big screen, and it probably won't happen because Sony rushed the Tom Hardy Venom movies out of the gate.

Ideally the fourth Tom Holland Spider-Man would have been a standalone pre-Secret Wars, and then a fifth Tom Holland Spider-Man picking up immediately after Secret Wars would have told the black Spidey suit story right.

 

[TravisR]

In the case of today's Marvel, it seems like the movies still go their own way, occasionally adapting story elements from the comics. But, unless I'm mistaken, it appears that the main comic titles, TV shows, etc. closely follow the continuity established in the movies. I would have thought the adaptations (movies) would follow the lead of the source material (comics), rather than the other way around.

I haven't really read Marvel superhero comics in many years but as a long-time comic book reader, it's impossible to not notice some Marvel stuff and it sure seems like everyone in the comics now resemble their movie counterparts.

 

[Alex...]

Rumor:

Marvel Studios reportedly cannot use any Spider-man villains that Sony already used.

Sony's SSMU Movies May Be Limiting The Number Of SPIDER-MAN Villains Available To Marvel Studios

A new rumor is claiming that any villain introduced in Sony Pictures' Spider-Man based movies "blocks" Marvel Studios from using that same character down the line...

comicbookmovie.com

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

 

[Alex...]

4-episode TV-MA event series• Includes Shang-Chi, Yelena, Kate Bishop, Red Guardian, Ms Marvel & more

 

[Sam Favate]

Pretty awesome trailer for things that Marvel has coming to Disney+ in 2024 and 2025.



Let's hope there are no big delays.

 

[Joe Wong]

Pretty awesome trailer for things that Marvel has coming to Disney+ in 2024 and 2025.



Let's hope there are no big delays.

I love seeing Ben Kingsley return as Trevor (I presume)!

 

[Jake Lipson]

I love seeing Ben Kingsley return as Trevor (I presume)!

You don't have to presume. It's him. Kingsley's involvement in Wonder Man was announced two years ago.

Ben Kingsley to Reprise Trevor Slattery Role in Marvel Studios’ Wonder Man Series at Disney+ (EXCLUSIVE)

Ben Kingsley will reprise the role of Trevor Slattery in the upcoming Wonder Man series from Marvel Studios at Disney+

variety.com

Also, I thought I read somewhere that Iger or Feige had said they were going to slow down their Disney+ shows to one or two a year. But according to that trailer, Spider-Man, Daredevil, Ironheart, Eyes of Wakanda, Marvel Zombies and Wonder Man are all for 2025? Plus three theatrical releases next year. I know a lot of these projects have been in the works for a long time, and they have to come out at some point. But that's a lot of Marvel to cram into a very short amount of time for a brand that is supposed to be slowing down to focus on quality.

I'm in the minority on this, but the last time I was impressed with a MCU project was Wakanda Forever. The news of this deluge of new stuff next year is not doing very much to get me excited. I want to see Riri again, but that's pretty much it as far as what excited me in that ad. Trevor is nice, but I'd rather see Shang-Chi back sooner than him.

 

[Sam Favate]

Iger and Feige probably only count the live action series toward their “2 or 3 a year” output.

 

[Alex...]

Rob Liefeld is done with Marvel.

Deadpool Creator Rob Liefeld Will No Longer Work With Marvel After ‘Deadpool & Wolverine’ Premiere Indignities

The writer-artist describes several perceived slights, such as being denied access to the afterparty, and makes a head-turning claim: "Kevin Feige does not treat comic book creators well."

www.hollywoodreporter.com

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Marvel Boss Reveals How Captain America 4’s Adamantium Plot Helps Set Up the MCU X-Men:
“One of the things we were very mindful of as we start to head towards a world that introduces the X-Men is sort of seeding the ground so it doesn’t feel like you’re going to drink out of the firehose with a lot of different concepts,” Moore said. “You know, we’ve already said that Namor’s a mutant. We’ve hinted that Ms. Marvel may be as well at the end of her show. We want to start just sort of planting some seeds so that as we’re building towards that idea, it feels like an organic story that’s been happening rather than something that we just drop in the middle of this ongoing saga right now.”

It'll be interesting to see how they handle this. Moore's comments about Namor and Kamala Khan suggest that mutants have been in the MCU all along. But if that's the case, they have to be incredibly rare, because there's no widespread societal awareness of mutants. Deadpool & Wolverine left a bunch of mutants from the various Fox Marvel films in what's left of the Deadpool/Logan universe, and presumably some or all of them could be carried over into MCU proper in the aftermath of Secret Wars.

Perhaps mutants (and the X-Men) exist in the universe that Fantastic Four: First Steps is set in, and will be brought in the MCU in Doomsday and/or Secret Wars. This would allow them to cast all of the characters fresh with actors who could play them for the next twenty years or so, while avoiding having to create new origin stories for them.

But I'm still hoping there is some sort of event that triggers the latent X genes in 30 million people or so across the globe. I'd like to see a bolder shake-up of how the X-Men came to be. The original origin story is so tied to the post-war atomic age, and it's less and less plausible the more time passes.

When Chris Claremont gave Magneto the background of being a child Holocaust survivor, the Holocaust had only ended 36 years prior. Magneto could still be in his forties with that backstory then. By the time Bryan Singer made X-Men in 2000, being a Holocaust survivor, even a child Holocaust survivor, meant being a senior citizen. Now the youngest Holocaust survivors who were old enough to have any memories of those horrors are in their late eighties.

It's time to figure out what drives the core of each of the essential X-Men, and find a way to translate that into a 21st century sensibility.

 

[Josh Dial]

For Brave New World, perhaps I missed something during the lead up to the first White House sequence, but who is the VP?

My spouse and I were discussing the movie over supper tonight (usually a good sign we liked it), and wondered if we're not seeing a coup in slow motion. Valentina is CIA director, non? Perhaps she's manipulating things to put in power someone she wants (perhaps...herself?).

Similarly, based on the trailer for Daredevil, it looks like Fisk is running for some sort of local office like mayor.

Is the next phase's story (this phase ends with Thunderbolts) about villains placing themselves in the seats of power? This villainy paves the way for Battleworld, and then the "return of heroes"? Bring the heroes low so when they "come back" it's more triumphant?

 

[Jake Lipson]

For Brave New World, perhaps I missed something during the lead up to the first White House sequence, but who is the VP?

I don't think the film addressed this at all. They should have because that person would become the president at the end of the film after Ross is sentenced to the raft.

Valentina is CIA director, non?

Per Wakanda Forever, yes.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

For Brave New World, perhaps I missed something during the lead up to the first White House sequence, but who is the VP?

As @Jake Lipson noted, it's not addressed in the movie. I'm assuming because they didn't want to hem future projects in.

Similarly, based on the trailer for Daredevil, it looks like Fisk is running for some sort of local office like mayor.

The mid-credits scene of the "Echo" finale set up Fisk's mayoral run. I'm thinking he's already mayor when "Daredevil: Born Again" begins.

Per Wakanda Forever, yes.

One gets the sense that she's the kind of shadowy figure who always has a calendestine role, whether formally (as is the case in Wakanda Forever) or informally. To the extent that she has any loyalty at all, it seems to be to the United States in a very narrow and nationalistic way.