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Marantz SR7200 (1 Viewer)

Kevin L K

Second Unit
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May 26, 2001
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272
Chris-Harman/Kardon receivers(at least from the AVR 510 and up)have main in & pre-amp outs so they do have a loop.
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Vince Chan

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Aug 22, 2001
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Kevin,
I have downloaded the manual from the H/K site and yes as you said the H/K can output bass to mains and sub just like the Yam. BTW I have a Yam RXV-496 (low end, I know)..
My question is now, can the Marantz 7200 do the same as the Yam and H/K?
 

LarrySkelly

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Jan 9, 2001
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129
Don't discount the Marantz because of its poor bass management. You can change that. You can't, however, change the innate sound of a receiver, and if your're into audio you'll take the Marantz over other receivers.
I have an SR8000 driving a pair of Martin-Logan reQuests, some B&W rears, and a pair of SVS 46-16CS's thru a Samson amp. The warm Marantz sound is fantastic, especially through Source Direct mode. I'm using a Paradigm X-30 external cross-over for bass management, driven off the main pre-amp outs, as the SR-8000 won't drive a sub in Source Direct. Its a $150 cross-over that gives me infinite control.
Besides the warm sound, the amplifer section of the SR8000 is really impressive. I'll eventually move to separates, but in the meantime the SR8000 does a solid job of driving the Martin-Logan's (the reQuests are notoriously difficult to drive, dropping to 1 ohm) along with some 4 ohm B&W's. Never a problem, at full volume for movies.
Sure the manuals are perhaps the worst in the industry. And it sounds as if online support is non-existent.
But you cannot change the the basic character of the sound from your receiver, nor the quality of the amplifier section. I'd love to have the flexibility I hear described for the HK receiver. But you can change the bass management, so don't let that drive your decision.
Just my $.02
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Kevin L K

Second Unit
Joined
May 26, 2001
Messages
272
Good post Larry. Let me ask you something--can you tell me EXACTLY how to hookup an outboard crossover? Will it just allow me to control the bass/LFE between my mains and the subwoofer? In other words will the bass from the center/surrounds still be redirected to the mains/sub through the receivers crossover point? Thanks.
By the way...I filled out the form filler at Marantz's site(since there's no actual email address)to ask them about bass management on the SR7200 and guess what--it came back twice stating "undeliverable" hahaha.
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Kevin L K

Second Unit
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May 26, 2001
Messages
272
Larry-can I ask you another question? If I tell the SR7200 that my mains cannot handle frequencies below 100hz,then it sends all frequencies below that to the sub,but if I indicate the mains CAN handle frequencies below 100hz-in other words set them to large-how does it handle the bass? Does it send all bass below 100hz to just the mains and only the LFE to the sub? I realize I can adjust this with the sub's crossover control but I'm just curious. Thanks.
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Chris PC

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May 12, 2001
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Interesting stuff.
The only way to crossover main speakers and a subwoofer using an external crossover is to insert it in a MAIN-OUT/MAIN-IN loop, or insert it between the receivers main-out or pre-out and an external amplifier. In both cases, you would connect your subwoofer to that external xover.
If you do anything else, then you are either using the receivers internal xover to limit the mains (ie 80,90 or 100 hz, whatever the xover is) or you are running them full range.
As I said, I'm looking at an xternal xover and xternal amp. That is, only if the sound with the 100 hz xover is not to my liking. Depending on the crossover slope, it may sound ok because enough bass down to say 60 or 80hz is coming from the mains that the subwoofer is not localizable or otherwise sounding poor.
[Edited last by Chris PC on August 25, 2001 at 07:02 PM]
 

Bob-N

Supporting Actor
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Jul 26, 2001
Messages
915
I guess the xover is still up for "negotiation". I'm not sure who's right and definitely agree that the Marantz website sucks regarding this kind of stuff. It's very brief and if not for some of the good reviews of past receivers, I wouldn't even be looking at the SR7200 because of the lousy info available.
Anyhow, if you take a look at the other Marantz thread from today (5 pages worth, "New Marantz receivers may be the answers to my....") is where I first saw/thought the xover was 100hz. I guess the only way to find out is by looking at the manual or calling Marantz customer service directly. If anyone finds out for sure the xover frequency, please post here.
 

LarrySkelly

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Joined
Jan 9, 2001
Messages
129
A few people have e-mailed me ans asked how I have this set up, so here goes.
Equipment:
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Marantz SR8000, fixed x-over frequency at 100 hz
Front's: Martin-Logan reQuests ( http://www.martinlogan.com/request_speaker.html
Subs: SVS 16-46CS x 2 with Samson 700
DVD: Pioneer DV37CD: Luxman DC-113
TV: Pioneer ELite 710HD
It's important to note that audio sound is as important if not more important to me than HT sound. Thus the ability ot use the Marantz's source direct feature is critical. Once you hear it, you won't listen to music any other way, there is a very large difference in the quality of the sound.
Here is how I have it set up.
Marantx SR8000:
- Sub='no'
- Front='large'
- Rear='small' (as I don't want to damage them, they're old B&W bookshelf's. If they were designed for HT, or a bit less 'delicate', I'd probably set rear to 'large'.
X-30 is a continuously variable crossover. You set the x-over frequency, phase, and gain (signal level). It has left/right inputs, which it blends into a mono signal for the sub. It routes all content below the x-over frequency to the sub, all content above the x-over frequency to a pair of high-pass out outputs, intended to be fed back into the receiver.
- Front's are driven right off the receiver speaker outputs as per usual
- Rears are driven off the receiver speaker outputs as per usual
- The X-30 is connected to the receiver's front/left pre-amp out. Since sub ='no' the LFE content is routed out the front's, to the X-30. The X-30 routes the content below the x-over frequency to the Samson amp driving the subs. Note that this means the receiver is routing the same signal out the front speaker outputs and out the front pre-amp out output.
Why did I do it this way? I wanted to use the subs to fill in some of the lower frequency for music, AND I wanted to use Source Direct mode. In source direct mode the receiver disables bass management completely, to get the purest signal, and the sub out is disabled. If I didn't use source direct I might still use the X-30. In my opinion the fixed 100hz x-over frequency sucks, you really don't want to be sending all that content to the Samson and the subs unless you have front's that need help in that area. I know the guys at SVS will say to set sub='yes' and front='small', so that you offload as much bass as possible from the receiver and front's, but I found the 100hz to be way too high.
So my subs and front's have an overlapping signal. Normally one would route the high-pass out signal from the X-30 to the receiver's left/right amplifer in, but I don't want anything to colour the signal going to the M-L's, especially for music, so I drive them directly off the receiver as per usual, and set the sub cross-over frequency pretty low so that they pick up the frequency where the M-L's start to drop off, minimizing the overlap. I usually have it set between 40-50 hz, so the sub level ramps up below there to fill in where the M-L's fall off.
There are better crossovers out there (e.g. Behringer), but I did not see any at local dealers. But I got a good price on the X-30 ($150 Cdn) and so far it seems to be fine. Really I'm just using it to control the cut-off for the subs.
Hope this helps,
Larry
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Samuel Des

Supporting Actor
Joined
Feb 7, 2001
Messages
796
Great photos of the 7200. In looking at the guts, I noticed that the transformer is box-like. Why is that?
Edit: I'm not looking for too-technical of an answer. My HK 7000 has a round one. I guess I'm just "comparing sizes."
laugh.gif

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SAM
[Edited last by Samuel Des on August 26, 2001 at 01:47 PM]
 

Vince Chan

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Aug 22, 2001
Messages
110
Thats an interesting setup you got there... Three things though:
1. My Paradigm pw-2200 happens to have stereo line level inputs and high pass outputs (line) on the back, as well as a variable (50-150hz) crossover knob and a phase knob.. so theoretically I can hook my speakers up the same way as yours without using an X-30 unit right?
2. Aren't you worried that feeding the full range of LFE to your mains will cause them damage?
3. Is it possible to hook it in this manner:
LFE -> Sub (Left line input on sub)
Main L/R Pre-out -> X-30 set @ 50hz -> Sub (Right line input on sub)
Receiver main speakers out -> Main speakers (set at large)
Receiver settings: Mains=Large, Sub=yes
This way, the Mains are getting full range, plus anything
 

Kevin L K

Second Unit
Joined
May 26, 2001
Messages
272
Thanks Larry and everyone else for your comments.I have another question to pose: what if I set my mains to "large" using the SR7200--does it send ALL bass to the mains and ONLY the LFE channel to the subwoofer? What is the cutoff point(xover)? In other words,what is the "Official" cutoff for frequencies per Dolby Labs that is ONLY carried through the .1 LFE channel and is this what Marantz uses? What I'm trying to figure out is is there such a thing as "Mains Only",or "Sub Only" or "Mains+Sub" even if speakers are set to large--and I'm referring to this for HT use-not for source direct for strictly music. Oh Hell-I'm just going to have to use the customer service ph# for Marantz listed on AR's site and ask them to send me a manual
wink.gif

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[Edited last by Kevin L K on August 26, 2001 at 04:27 PM]
 

Chris PC

Senior HTF Member
Joined
May 12, 2001
Messages
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The Outlaw ICBM could be used between the SR 7200 and external amplification. If you used all the channels of the ICBM, you would need ampsl for all those channels. You cannot xover a signal and send it back into the SR 7200 to be amplified.
 

Chris PC

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What really bothers me is that we are stuck with a fixed 80, 90 or 100 hz when a SONY STR-DA777ES has bass management of:
40-220hz in 10hz increments.
HELLO? Marantz? Denon? Yamaha? Onkyo & Integra? Is anybody home? Why can't your receivers have this????
Granted the 777 isn't a cheap receiver, but don't tell me that crossover is really expensive to incorporate.
[Edited last by Chris PC on August 26, 2001 at 04:55 PM]
 

LarrySkelly

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Jan 9, 2001
Messages
129
Vince,Kevin,
Re: your questions
Vince
1. Yes you should be able to do the same with the built in crossover of the PW-2200.
2. Sending LFE to mains. I've not had any problems, even at full volume. The M-L reQuests (mains) are quite capable, 10" woofers, and need about 300 watts/channel for optimal sound, so I'm not worried about hurting them with the SR8000's 105 wpc, at any frequency. I've not listened closely to see how much of the LFE they are processing, if that's even possible. But I think it would be obvious when listening, if there was a problem.
3. LFE -> Sub (Left line input on sub)
Main L/R Pre-out -> X-30 set @ 50hz -> Sub (Right line input on sub)
Receiver main speakers out -> Main speakers (set at large)
Receiver settings: Mains=Large, Sub=yes
That's interesting. I don't see why not, if your sub will take two inputs. I'm not sure if I can do that with the Samson. It is a two-channel amp, but I don't think it will take two inputs and blend them in bridged mode to drive one channel. I could send LFE to one sub, and bass below 50 hz to the other, thru the two sides of the Samson, but I want both subs to handle LFE for movies.
Kevin:
re: what if I set my mains to "large" using the SR7200--does it send ALL bass to the mains and ONLY the LFE channel to the subwoofer?
You know, I don't know. I think so but I'm not sure, I'd have to try to read the manaul to be sure. I think you're right, though. But this stuff ought to be obvious when looking at the manual, but it isn't.
Larry
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Steve Owen

Second Unit
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Jan 7, 1999
Messages
416
First off, I agree fully that manufacturers that don't provide decent info on their websites are at a disadvantage. I am doing research on components (for my folks) and am currently looking into receivers. I looked at the Marantz page and was dissapointed in the lack of information. There's absolutely NO EXCUSE for not posting product brochures and manuals. I looked on Denon's website and they have the full manuals up for most of their products. I like Marantz. I own a Marantz receiver myself. But in this situation, I'm tending away from them because I want to read FULLY about the product before buying (and don't even get me started about Sony's pathetic website. I AM NOT going to register to look at their information).
Now, to bass management... I agree that 80, 100, 120 Hz are fairly poor options. For many speaker setups, 80 Hz is WAY too high. At that frequency, it's still too easy to localize the subwoofer. I ended up sending the LFE to the mains and and then sending a full-range signal to the sub and using the sub's crossover. It's set at it's lowest setting (40 Hz I think) so that the transition between the sub and main speakers is pretty smooth.
-Steve
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Kevin L K

Second Unit
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May 26, 2001
Messages
272
Using Vince's theory: couldn't you just use some interconnects going from the right/left main preamp outputs and connect them to both line level ins on the sub,set speakers to large and sub to no and set the crossover to what you want on the sub's crossover dial(which I guess is what Steve is saying)?
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[Edited last by Kevin L K on August 27, 2001 at 05:56 AM]
[Edited last by Kevin L K on August 27, 2001 at 05:58 AM]
 

John Garcia

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I have had my 6200 for 2 months now, and I can almost certainly say that the x-over is fixed at 100Hz. There is NOTHING in the poorly writen manual to confirm this, other than a mention in the speaker settings section which states: "...if your speakers can handle below 100Hz, use the 'large' setting..." Nowhere in the manual is 80Hz mentioned, nor are there any controls to adjust the fequency cutoff. To me, it sounds like 100Hz, with a fairly steep slope.
The key seems to be the sub "Yes or No" selection, which will redirect the LFE to a sub when set to "Yes", and to the other speakers when set to "No" and "Large" This is also not clearly stated in the manual, however, this is how it sounds from trying all the settings on my receiver to see what happened.
I'm not sure why people are so hung up on 100Hz, since I don't feel that it is really a big deal. The sound quality was certainly worth overlooking the x-over frequency for me, and I am not disappointed.
Initially, I used the small setting. I have 4 Paradigm Titans and a CC-170, and they sounded a little bright and hollow. Once I switched to large, they became much more round and full, with more mid-bass. I have switched back and forth a number of times, and I still much prefer having them set to large. With sub = "yes" and all speakers set to "large", I have only gotten distortion at extreme levels, at which I would never actually be listening to my system.
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Vince Chan

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Aug 22, 2001
Messages
110
Kevin,
That would work too, except it will direct the LFE to the mains as well as the sub and I'm afraid they will damage my mains (although if you have good enough mains this shouldn't worry you).
While we're on the topic of LFE does anyone know what the practical frequency range is on the LFE channel? I've been told that it can go as high as 120hz, but how often will studios use that?
-Vince
[Edited last by Vince Chan on August 27, 2001 at 12:58 PM]
 

Vince Chan

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Aug 22, 2001
Messages
110
Okay I'm gonna go off on a tangent from all this bass stuff to ask what Surround modes are supported on the Marantz 7200? The online info states Dolby Digital® (AC-3)5.1/6.1, DTS® 5.1/6.1 Compatible, Dolby Pro Logic®, Pro Logic® II, Circle Surround® 5.1
1. So whats this DD6.1 stuff? As far as I know there is only DD-EX which is a 5.1 matrixed into 6 channels.. Is that what it's referring to? (ie: it does true dolby-ex matrixing and not some proprietary matrixing method like Logic7, Neo6, and others)
2. Does DTS 6.1 compatible mean DTS-ES? Discrete or Matrix, or both?
3. What's Circle Surround?
4. I'm also looking at the 6200, and the only difference between the two that would matter to me would be that the 6200 has a 24/96khz DAC instead of the 24/192khz on the 7200. What difference, if any should I expect to hear with the 24/192khz? I understand that the much-respected Denon 3801/3802 unit uses 24/96khz Dacs too..
Thx
-Vince
[Edited last by Vince Chan on August 27, 2001 at 01:00 PM]
 

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