Marantz SR6200 100hz xover only for front speakers? What about subwoofer?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Chris PC, Mar 28, 2002.

  1. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    When I listen to music and movies with my FRONTS=LARGE and SUB=YES I could swear that much higher than 100 hz is coming from my subwoofer. I will disconnect the front speakers and give the sub a little more listening and testing with program material and tones, but I was wondering what others experience was with this.

    Is the subwoofers high cut off set to 100 hz when FRONT=LARGE and SUB=YES? Is it the LFE that I'm hearing go higher than 100 hz coming from the subwoofer?
     
  2. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    I'm guessing there's no cutoff from the receiver if you set the mains to large and sub=yes, meaning your sub's x-over is used. I hear the same thing when I set it this way. When I set my mains to large for music, I normally turn my sub off.
     
  3. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    Hmmmm, well.....that mean the bass management is even worse than I thought. Actually, one thing that really pisses me off, is that SOURCE DIRECT sounds way too much better than SOURCE DIRECT "OFF" so something fishy is going on. For on thing, there's way too much more bass. Its unrealistic. Why would the frequency response be 4 or 5 dB different between each mode? Also, in source direct, there is no subwoofer! I wonder if that's why I'm having a lame time blending my sub into this system, bloody None-source direct is the only way to use the subwoofer and it sound lousy.

    I am making it my lifes mission to obtain a setup with proper bass management and no SOURCE DIRECT without the subwoofer crap. Don't get me wrong, I love the sound character and sound quality of my Marantz SR6200, but I don't like the fact that SOURCE DIRECT is so different and there's no subwoofer output! Arrghh! I can't believe its taken me this long to notice it.
     
  4. Michael Mohrmann

    Michael Mohrmann Screenwriter

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    Chris,

    I responded to your AVS post when I realized you are the same person here. Yes, it appears that Source Direct (still) means full-range mains, no subwoofer on the Marantz receivers. In the past (i.e. SR-8000 receiver and AV-9000 prepro), Source Direct required analog connections. Is that still true or does the SR-6200 also allow Source Direct to operate on a digital input?

    Source Direct, with an analog input, is equivalent to an analog bypass mode. Many systems will see an improvement in sound, even with the loss of the subwoofer, in an analog bypass mode. A lot depends on how the DACs in your CD/DVD player compare to the receiver's.

    BTW, as you have probably guessed, Source Direct bypasses all bass management and tone controls. If the tone controls are set to lower the bass, this will impact the non-Source Direct mode and may make it sound lighter in bass than Source Direct.

    Michael
     
  5. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    Yep. Its me [​IMG] Well, I set the subwoofer to NO and the bass to zero (0) and I'm doing some comparing. I think I can tell the difference just listening to bass frequency test tones. Not sure yet. It is kind of dissappointing. I don't like hearing a huge difference. Manufacturers should make the best sound quality available in all modes. I guess I have some more testing to do. I still await the new NAD receivers because I hope they have better bass management. I've thought about this alot, and I still say that all receiver companies have to do is give us a 60 or 80 hz option at the very least for a crossover. 100 hz doesn't sound good to me. I think 80 hz is better, but to me, it only makes sense that we be given more options. I'll do more testing. I neglect a good test CD. I have burnt test tones on a CD though and I'll try some more tone testing. I'll use my analog RS SPL meter and do it thoroughly.
    I am going to seriously look at my options. I can't afford an OUTLAW 950 AND the 5,6 or 7 channels of amplification needed.
     
  6. Dennis B

    Dennis B Stunt Coordinator

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    Chris,
    Look at the bright side: there are a lot of guys beating the crap out of the brand-new-and-much-awaited Rotel 1066 beacuse it seems it doesn't have a true analog bypass like our X200s... [​IMG]
    Do your mains go really low? I've set my mains as SMALL and managed to get a good sub/mains interaction.
    Rgds,
    Dennis
     
  7. Dalton

    Dalton Screenwriter

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    Chris PC,
    Have you tried using a y-adapter and using the l/r front channel preouts to the subwoofer instead of the subwoofer output? Doing this will allow you to use your sub in Source Direct mode. Just make sure you set subwoofer=NO in your receiver setup. I had the SR7000 and the SR7200 and that is how i used my sub for movies and source direct listening. Can't hurt to try it. [​IMG]
     
  8. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    I haven't tried that. Incidentally, my subwoofer has a crossover if you use the L & R inputs (it has two) but you can bypass the crossover by using the single input. So its safe to "SUM" the outputs of the left and right main pre-outs like that? Sounds kinda wierd, connecting two outputs into one.

    Also, if I did that, I'd have FRONT speakers covering the entire frequency range down to 30 hz (my fronts go to 32 hz - 3dB) and my subwoofer crossover only goes down to 50 hz. I would have overlap from 30 to 55 hz. If I get an outboard crossover and stereo amp, as I've mentioned in another post, then I guess I'd have that problem avoided. I have run the SUB and FRONT=LARGE before, but its not necessarily how I like it, but I have to listen more.
     
  9. Michael Geiger

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    I am using an SR-8000. It will allow source direct from a digital source. I believe with the digital input it merely bypasses the tone controls. Since it still must perform a D/A conversion.

    As for your 6200, you can also hook up your sub via speaker level. I run speaker cable in parallel with the mains. But your sub must have speaker levels connections of course. I set my mains to large, sub = no. I set the crossover on the sub to 60 Hz. (10 above when my front speakers start to drop off the chart) It seems to blend very well this way.

    My receiver is "locked" to source direct. No other way to listen IMO.

    Just out of curiosity, why do you want to run your mains on large with the sub, if they go into the low 30's ?
     
  10. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    I don't usually run the FRONT=LARGE and SUB=YES. I only try that every once in a while out of curiosity. I have yet to fully test my system with tones and my SPL meter.

    My subwoofer has no speaker wire level inputs, otherwise, I would do exactly what you mention. Instead, I am going to get a crossover and outboard amp if the crossover has no speaker level inputs. FRONT=LARGE and run those wires through the subwoofer. Instead, I'm playing with the crossover. See, I suspect that the subwoofer output from the Marantz SR6200 does not roll off above 100 hz EVEN when I set the FRONT=SMALL. I have to further test.
     

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