Marantz SR 8000 vs SR 8200 (upgraded to 8300 specs)?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Chris PC, Sep 26, 2004.

  1. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    Just wondering if people have comments to the effect of the sound difference between the SR 8000 vs the SR8200/8300. I'm looking at an 8200 which has been upgraded. The reasons I'd like to upgrade are:

    1) Improved sound quality in all modes. ADDC - The ability to listen in regular stereo/surroud modes and experience the same sound quality as Source Direct. Reason? So I can have more flexibility with how I configure my setup. Subwoofer experimenting etc.

    2) DPL II and CS for older DVD's.

    3) Slightly more power.

    4) THX crossover of 80 hz vs 100 hz can't hurt.

    Other added perks I'll benefit from but don't necessarily need:

    1) 6.1 powered outs and 7.1 pre-outs
    2) Fancy remote

    So my main concern is, how does the 8200 sound vs the 8000? Does it sound as good? Better? Is the sound equally good in regular stereo (and surround modes) vs the Source Direct mode?

    thank-you in advance for any feedback,

    [​IMG]

    P.S. Thanx John for the feedback you've already given [​IMG]
     
  2. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    Should I just add a cheap DVD player with DPL II instead and grab an amp for the SR 8000? I don't need, and cannot use 6.1 now anyways.

    What if I ventured into other brands, like Onkyo, Denon, Yamaha? What can I get that sounds at least as good for stereo as the SR 7000 and at least has DPL II?
     
  3. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    I think the only other receivers you might really like would be NAD or Rotel and maybe even H/K, based on what you've told me you like about Marantz. You might do just as well and keep the sound you like by adding monoblocks or a 2 or 3 channel amp (to the 7000 even...), if you don't have a problem with the way it sounds now. I like the 80Hz x-over though.

    I would go audition Onkyo, Denon and Yamaha because you may find something you like/don't like about each.

    I know there are other people on here with 8200s, but maybe they haven't heard the 8000?
     
  4. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    Fair enough. I guess the big thing is the ADDC because, it allows me more flexibility. Being able to listen to music in non-source direct and still achieve high quality sound allows me to try things like blending the sub for music, or without the subwoofer, I could adjust the bass control to add a little more bass (if anything, it would be handy to use as a manual loudness control. Sometimes I like more bass, but not necessarily higher overall volume), or I could even try the regular stereo mode with the subwoofer and fiddle with the tone control. That doesn't work well with the 6200, 7000 and 8000. Also, it allows me to try Source Direct for surround modes. I have tried source direct with DTS and DD and it sounds pretty good. If the 8200 would sound as good without source direct, then thats good too. The only other Marantz I would perhaps try would be the 7300 OSE if it didn't have dropouts. Trouble is, it doesn't have the ADDC so SD and regular stereo would sound different. I wish I knew why SD sounds so much better for two channel bass on the 6200,7000 and 8000, and yes, I have the fronts set to large when I compare.

    Its mainly the DPL II that I'd like to add. I know with the 8000, a good stereo amp would probably do me very well. I do lots of stereo listening with the 8000, so a 5 channel amp isn't what I'd prefer.

    thanx again for the feedback [​IMG]
     
  5. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    I did some listening to my CD players analog outputs on my SR 8000 last night. The difference between Source Direct and regular stereo is subtler than I remembered. Not sure if I even notice a difference anymore when I turn off the display and switch back and forth (sort of blind switching). I think its better in Source Direct, especially the treble, but the difference in the bass doesn't seem as noticable. I'm feeling silly now. I'll compare using digital outputs.

    Now I wonder if an SR 7300 OSE may still be a good option for me vs what I have now vs an SR 8200 (SR 8000 or 7000, still haven't sold the 7000 and need to do a serious comparison with the 8000. My hunch is the 8000 should sound better). I think there may be an SR 7300 OSE available. Now I can't recall if it was totally free of the digital signal, delay-dropout issues.

    Regardless, the 7300 ose should sound comparable to the SR 8200, correct?
     
  6. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    Same DACs, supposedly the same power supply with different amps, but should have the same reserve current as the 8200. I'd say the OSE would be a good choice. I was going to get one, but my dealer gave me a good price on the 8300.

    If it weren't for PLII, I'd stick with the 8000. The x300s have full blown PLII as well - fully configurable, which was a big improvement over the x200s.

    So, no dropouts with the 8000?
     
  7. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    ZERO delay or dropouts with the SR 7000 and SR 8000. I found it very amussing. When I first brough home the SR 7000 I spent the first part of 5 minutes or more trying really really hard to force the receiver to cut off the signal but it never has, and of course, the 8000 is identical in this regard. The only time I have a "dropout" is when my panasonic dvd player goes through a layer change, and the panasonics are notorious for slow lazy layer changes. Its a plit second, and I wish i wasn't there, but its not too bad. Come to think of it, the next DVD I play I will try to force the surround mode and/or use Source Direct and see if it loses something on the layer change. I'm not sure, but it may be the dvd players fault.

    The 7300 OSE is a fairly decent option. If it does have the same DAC's as the 8300, then that is good. I realize it doesn't have the ADDC though. That was partly what I was hoping would do away with the need for Source Direct. Other differences are slightly less power(?)*, basically similar to the 8000 at 110/channel vs the 7000/8000 and 7300 105/channel. This difference in wattage in and of itself isn't meaningful, but probably reflects higher current ability. In my case, with 6 ohm speakers, its actually 135/ch vs 130/ch. The 7300 OSE also has an 80 hz crossover which is ok too, and a curious BASS MIX/BOTH option for the fronts and subwoofer. Interesting. BOTH is just what it sounds like. When you chose MIX, the fronts play the full range, but NOT the LFE. Sounds interesting anyways.

    As far as surround channels, both powered and pre-out, and surround modes, the 7300 OSE and SR 8200/8300 seem identical. Correct?

    Comparing these two receivers, power output aside, it seems to come down to these details:

    1) The 7300 ose has a copper chassis etc, no ADDC and lame remote.
    2) The 8200/8300 hasn't the copper chassis, but has ADDC and a good remote (and also has THX Select, how important that is, I don't really know).
    3) Aside from copper chassis, their power supply and transformers are different too?

    * I just looked at both the SR8200 and SR8300 owners manuals and they list 130 watts into 6 ohms only! Thats strange. I thought the 8200/8300 put out 120 watts into 8 ohms, and therefore, more than the 7000/8000/7300/ose etc? And yet the old brochure's show 120 watts x 6 into 8 ohms. Which is it?


    ...and also there are two important situational differences to the purchase decision I'm making.

    The 7300 OSE is close to me in a store, in a box, and would come with a new warranty. The firmware updated SR 8200 is from the US, would have to ship the unit and I'd have no warranty.
     
  8. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    For the 8200 it was 92 actual watts with all channels driven 8 Ohms (S&V). I'm not sure why it would only be 130w @ 6 Ohms, but the reason I went with my monoblocks was because my front 3 speakers are 4 Ohm and the receiver seemed like it wasn't bringing out their best. That's why I say the 8000 with an amp will sound better than the OSE/8200/8300. The copper chassis (with all gold plated connections) is nice, but is it really necessary? Probably not.

    I don't like the RC3200 remote...(much better than the RC1200 though). I have not really used it much because I like my RC2000MkII still. LOL, I programmed the codes from the NEW remote to my old one. It loses ALL programming and goes back to the factory defaults when the batteries die - not cool (though you can store the config on your PC via RS232).

    The only benefit of THX Select was the 80Hz x-over to me. I never use the processing, re-eq, etc...

    *edit - I'd go with the OSE based on that info.
     
  9. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    Yeah, I'm seriously considering the 7300 OSE.

    You say the 8000 with an amp will sound better than the OSE/8200/8300. Makes sense. Without external amps,surely the 7300 OSE will sound equal or better than the 8000 since it shares the copper chassis and transformer, correct? Which transformer does the 7300 OSE have and which one does the 8200/8300 have? I can't find that info.

    As remotes go, I'd probably prefer the non-OEM version of the SR 7000 remote. What was it? An SR18 or something, or another RC2000MKII. Both never lose their programming when the remote dies. That is a drawback for both receivers, having to find a remote. With the 7000 and/or 8000, the remotes are livable.

    80 hz xover in both receivers so yeah, THX select isn't so important.

    I wonder if DPL IIx is a possible future upgrade with the SR 8200/8300? What about CSII? Is that 6.1 on the 8200/8300?
     
  10. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    I read somewhere that the OSE has the same or similar PS as the 8200, but I don't know that for sure. So basically the amps from the 7300 with the power supply of the 8200 gives you the 110w.

    The MkII retains all it's memory for quite a while, at least a few days, even with no batteries; I've tried it out. The non-OEM version of the RC2000 is not as good either, and supposedly the same goes for the RC3200 (but since it's upgradable, you can download the same software update to the non-OEM). I think a big part of the price hike with the 8200/8300 was the remote alone.

    Yes, CSII is 6.1. On the 6200, CS sounded better, but with the configurable DPLII, I like DPLII better. The 8300 also has DTS NEO:6 for stereo sources, I don't remember if the OSE has that but it probably does, though it sounds a lot like PLII.

    With the 8400 out and the 8500 announced, I doubt PLIIx will be in the future of the 8300.
     
  11. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    I agree, with the SR 6200, CS was better than DPL II. With DPL II on your 8300 you prefer DPL II over CS?

    I can put batteries in the RC2000MKII and see if it has retained its memory, but I haven't used it in a while. I'm using the SR 7000's remote with the 8000 [​IMG] I'd prefer the non-oem SR 7000 remote as it is identical, except for the addition of a lighted LCD screen which the SR7000's remote lacks. I've checked and the 7300 OSE basically has identical surround modes as the 8300.

    Guess it all depends on whether the price of $999 CDN plus tax is good for the 7300 OSE. As it stands, the one thing I'd be missing out on with the 7300 OSE are those ADDC. That is one thing I'm very curious about. I seriously wonder whether I'd be able to be happy with non-source direct modes. If they sound as good as SD then I'd lean toward the SR8200/8300. Still, the 8200 is used, in the US and has no warranty. Decisions, decisions....

    I guess I should have titled this SR 8000 vs SR 8200/8300 vs 7300 ose...just like all my other thread postings have ended up focussing on [​IMG]
     
  12. ChrisDixon

    ChrisDixon Second Unit

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    I still use the SR7000 remote, while my 8200's fancy touch screen remote collects dust. I prefer actual buttons, and my fingers are very used to the ol' standby.

    Chris
     
  13. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    I'm going around in circles. Once I compare the SR 7000 and SR 8000 thoroughly, and sell one of them, and do something with my SR 6200, I'll revisit this idea of upgrading. The fact is, I listened to some CD's and I find the SR 8000 sounds great. I can't find any DVD's that are only in stereo, as 99.9% of mine are dolby digital. I can't justify getting the 7300 ose or 8200/8300 for DPL II or CS when I'll not need it. Yep, I know, what a silly conclusion. When I first bought my SR 6200, I had laserdiscs and vhs tapes with dolby stereo and dolby surround that would benefit from DPL II and CS. Now I find I would almost never use them. I can't accomodate any more speakers in this room right now, so I've no need for 6.1/7.1. I'm basically missing out on an 80 hz crossover with the 7300 ose and in addition, the possibility of not needing source direct, and the ability adjust the bass with the SR 8200/8300. I watched a DD AC3 DVD last night with my PSB Image speakers and Mirage BPS-400 subwoofer using the SR 8000 in Source Direct. The sound was as awesome as ever. I'll do my homework as per above and get back to this thread later.

    Thanx to those of you on here who've given me feedback. The Marantz SR7000 and 8000 sound awesome and I'm glad I found advice from members on here (and also on AVS) regarding Marantz receivers. Good sound is good [​IMG]
     
  14. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    Of course I am curious what good DPL II and CS can do for Dolby Digital soundtracks that are simply not very discrete or a little lifeless, less ambient or spacious sounding. Can DPL II and/or CS add spacious or ambient life to these?

    What the heck can be done with a Mono Dolby Digital soundtrack like that of the Dog Day Afternoon DVD? The best I could do was "Stereo" mode which was probably simply dual-mono, although the bass sounded much better than straight mono DD. I tried the other DSP's like Matrix, etc etc, but they didn't do anything pleasing. I guess my SR 8000 is limited in this regard. Again, not sure I care enough to try to improve the situation for this reason alone. The only other thing I'm going to try is to see if my Panasonic CV51's "Virtual Surround" modes can add spice to two channel dolby stereo surround tracks, but I think the output of that processing comes out the analog outputs only.
     
  15. Richard_B

    Richard_B Stunt Coordinator

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    www.accessories4less.com has one SR8400 left for the price of $1099. I am not sure if that price is really good or not but I just thought I'd let you know.

    I have bought from these guys before with no problems at all.

    They also have a SR8200 for $999 and it says it has a $200 software upgrade included.
     
  16. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    Yep. Those are all good choices. I actually may be getting an SR 6400 as a warranty replacement, perhaps because I've been kept waiting for 5 months. I wonder how that compares with the rest of these receivers, particularly the SR 7300 ose and SR 8200/8300. I notice that the 6400 has lots of toys, including DPL II with the adjustments, SRS CS II with adjustments and a few other things like a xover of 80 hz. I hope the 6400 doesn't have the delay. Made in China so I wonder what the sound quality and reliability is going to be like? I may try to substitute an SR 7300 ose or SR 8200/8300 instead.
     
  17. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    So how do the "newer" receivers compare with one another? Where does the 6400 fit in relation to the 7300 OSE, the 7400, the 8200/8300 etc? Is the 6400 as good or better than the non-ose 7300, is it comparable to the 7300 ose? Using specs alone, the 6400 is comparable to the 7300 ose, but it does not have the same copper chassis etc. Looking for feedback on which way to go with this.
     
  18. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    Received (haha no pun intended) a Marantz SR 6400 as a warranty replacement for my SR 6200. Has the same problem with cutting off the signal. Trouble is, so do many other receivers. I listened to a 7300 ose today and it did the same thing. Same goes for a Denon 3805 (I think), although the 3805 was much faster. Also a Pioneer receiver (56txi or something) and it also chopped off the start of tracks. Here are my acid test tracks:

    Power Windows - Rush - CD
    Tracks #5 and #8

    Depeche Mode - 86 to 98 - Disc #1

    Tracks #4, #8 and #10

    My SR 7000 and SR 8000 do not chop off the start. I think the 6400 is faster than the 6200 I had, and sometimes, I admit it does get it, but when I go back and forth, and sometimes even when I let it play through from one track to the nest on its own, it still chops off the attack.

    So I guess I'll keep searching and keep the 8000 for now. Anybody know what a B-stock Marantz SR 6400 is worth? I'm going to put it up for sale for now.

    Actually, Marantz has returned my communication and is helping me track down something without dropouts so I won't sell the 6400 just yet...to be continued...
     
  19. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    I'll leave the dropout/delay discussion in the other thread.

    To add sound quality comparisons, how do these compare. Starting with the SR 8000 which I currently own:

    SR 8000 vs 7300 ose vs 7400 vs 8200/8300

    Any feedback about sound quality comparisons would be appreciated. Mainly comparing stereo playback (and source direct) between these units [​IMG]
     
  20. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    Any audio quality comparisons from owners of the above Marantz receivers?
     

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