Marantz SR-7000 issue w/ channel levels

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Justin_Terpstra, Jan 22, 2003.

  1. Justin_Terpstra

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    My Equipment:
    - Marantz SR-7000
    - Velodyne SPL-1200
    - Sound Dynamics RTS-9's (mains)(dual 6.5's)
    - Sound Dynamics C2 (center)(dual 5.25's)
    - Paradigm Mini-Monitors (rears)

    Overally I have been having issues w/ the bass. Never seems quite right. Plus stereo vs DD was never the same.

    I set everything to small. Internall crossover is fixed at 80hz. I had the sub crossed over at 55hz or so and down.

    On the advice of someone here I turned off the sub crossover so it gets 80hz and down. My initial reaction is I like it and it sounds smoother overall.

    Upon doing this I noticed something really interesting.

    I have a channel level control for surround modes. So I can set the levels for 5-channel stereo independantly of say DD. Cool.

    So if go to TV which is set to 5-channel stereo I have:
    Main L: 0
    Main R: 0
    Center: -2
    Sub: -8
    Rear L: -6
    Rear R: -6

    When I go to DVD which is set to DD I have:
    Main L: 0
    Main R: 0
    Center: -1
    Sub: -5
    Rear L: -2
    Rear R: -2

    But my problem is that when I go to any 2-channel source (radio, cd, tape, etc ...) the channel levels it uses are from DD, so then the bass is rather over-powering.

    I would have thought 2-channel stereo would assume its own settings .... but just for Main L, Main R, and Sub.

    Is it just grabbing the mode of the video mode rather than the actual source selected. What I mean is I can watch a DVD source while listening to a CD. Is this affecting it? How then will I ever be able to set the sub level for stereo listening vs DD?
     
  2. Justin_Terpstra

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    Someone must have this reciever and be able to offer some advice ....
     
  3. Takosan

    Takosan Stunt Coordinator

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    I have the SR-7000 too but I have no answer.

    One thing is that I thought our internal crossover, when using the receiver setting, is set @ 100Hz?

    Anyways, I use small setting all around. For music (I.E. CD source) I skip the sub & listen using s-direct.
     
  4. Steve_Ma

    Steve_Ma Second Unit

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    You might get more responses if you asked one of the moderators to move this to the receiver/seperates/amps forum, but I have the SR7000 so I'll take a stab at this.

    I am assuming your sub is hooked up via the LFE out. With all speakers set to small and the sub = yes... The SR7000 places a fixed 100hz crossover in place (not 80hz). With the x-over already set, you should keep the sub's x-over cranked to its maximum setting to keep it out of the way. If you do anything else, you are filtering an already filtered signal (so to speak) and are risking gaps in your bass response. This is true for any DSP mode except S-Direct (source direct) which bypasses bass mgt altogether, treating your mains as large and acting as if there were no sub. Try cranking your sub's sub's x-over to it's max setting, then calibrate with an SPL meter. Get used to this for a couple of days and see what you think.

    Now, you touched on something which I think is the biggest bone-head design move there is. I love my SR7000, but check this out. When you calibrate the ch level's you must go pretty deep into the menu to change those settings. Now, as you figured out, you can then also adjust the settings for each individual DSP mode to customize the unit’s performance for different DSP modes. Kinda kool, right? WRONG! If you change the channel settings in any DSP mode, you also change the main settings you originally set up when you calibrated the channels. For the life of me, I can't figure out why this is and I have corresponded with Marantz about it, but never got a clear answer.

    My solution. I Calibrate my speakers once in the main Ch settings menu and forget about them. I am a always searching for a more "accurate" reproduction anyway, so I have no desire to tweak my settings for each individual piece of software I toss in, but this aspect of the SR7000 design just makes no sense to me.

    I Hope this helped.
    --Steve
     
  5. Steve_Ma

    Steve_Ma Second Unit

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    I also wanted to add (because I'm not longwinded enough [​IMG]) that my SR7000 usually stays in the AUTO mode. Here's why. When you play 2ch/stereo CD, the only "effect" in place is the x-over, and my music just sound so much better with sub taking care of the deep stuff. Also, in the auto mode, the unit will automatically detect and decode a DD and/or DTS signal. So, in this mode, I have my music in 2ch (with the sub) and I get my movies processed correctly without messing with my DSP settings.

    --S
     
  6. ChrisDixon

    ChrisDixon Second Unit

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    I used to have an SR-7000, and I have to respectfully disagree about 2 channel music in Auto Mode. From my experience, Source Direct with analog connection is the *only* way to go on the 7000 for music. Much better detail and sound stage. When I'd switch to Stereo or Auto, it sounded more flat and far away. The only downside to SD is that you can't connect the sub via Sub-out. What I did was hook it up using the left and right pre-outs, and set the cross-over of my sub where the left and right speakers rolled off. It was a pain (I actually used an A/B switch to allow me to connect via sub-out as well for movies) but it was worth it for the better music re-production.

    Interestingly, with my SR-8200, I find the stereo mode to be greatly improved (and even a notch better than analog source direct connection from my Marantz CC4000 CD player). The 8200 has excellent DACs and has a special Dual Differential configuration that basically re-purposes the DACs to perform better in two channel mode. Of course with any receiver, analog direct performance is dependent on the DACs of your CD player. With a half decent CD player, I always felt that for the price, the 7000 was awufuly hard to beat for music when in Source Direct mode.

    Chris
     
  7. Steve_Ma

    Steve_Ma Second Unit

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    Hi Chris,

    I don't really think we disagree. My point was simply that (assuming the sub is hooked up via the LFE out and the speakers are set to small with the sub = yes)...If one plays a CD or any other "Stereo" source...There should be no difference between the AUTO and STEREO modes. The same processing and x-over apply to both in that scenario. So for me, it's a simplicity issue. I don't have to mess with the modes for the normal material I play.

    In fact, you are not the first person to tell me they love S-Direct for 2ch material. I spent a long time using it. My problem was that in order to use S-Direct, with a sub, you need to hook the sub up via the main speaker connections and run the mains off the sub. My room and speakers simply didn't give as good a response as when I was using the LFE out and fixed 100hz x-over. I measured ad-nauseum and as much as I wanted to use this config to get more from my towers, my freq response just wasn't as flat. Any improvement I might have realized by switching the DAC was overshadowed by a bad bass response. So I went back to the LFE/100hz x-over. If my room and speakers gave me a different response, I could easilly be singing a different tune.

    --Steve
     
  8. Justin_Terpstra

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    Well heres an update.

    I had always calibrated w/ the test tones on my reciever. I had my mains set to small and my sub set at 55hz and down. I thought the crossover was 80hz when actually it was 100hz.

    On the advice of those here I ordered AVIA. I then turned my sub crossover off, to be sure to get the full signal range 100hz and down.

    Last night I fired up AVIA and set all the channel levels.

    DAMN is all I can say. I thought it was good before, and now its way way better. I doubt it could get any better than this. Overall nothing was over 1db off, but that little bit just made the difference (center +1, both rears -1). The sub was turned from (-5) to (-8). I think it was a tad bit too much bass before, and it was overpowering the system as a whole. The clarity now is beyond great. Transitions from center to left, or front to rear are so seamless now its incredible.

    Also ironically with the sub volume set lower, the bass level in 2-channel I had is also gone. Before this anytime I went to 2-channel, I was adjusting the sub to (-9) anyway (which was a major pain in the ass). So at (-8) it is right in the ballpark.

    The question I do have is would it be worth it to turn the sub gain down, and set the sub level on the reciever back up. Ideally I'd like the sub level at 0, and then adjust the sub level via the gain if I can turn it down that far. Right now I think the gain is at about 1.5 of out of a potential 10. Just such a powerful sub ....

    I listened to a bunch of things and couldn't be happier.

    DMB - Listener Supported (DVD): Better than ever, I could listen to it over and over and over.

    Sarah McLauchlin - Mirrorball (DVD): I always liked this one, but thought the mixing was a little off. Levels between front and rear were never quite right. Now it was perfect. No issues whatsoever.

    Driven (DVD): Nice effects as usual. Between 13 and 14 minutes in there is a nice drive-away effect that is damn cool.

    Black Hawk Down (Starz)(DD via cablebox): Effects were great. Clarity seems much improved overall.

    Multiple CD's: Music clarity has improved, bass isn't as overpowering. Best of all though is the it requires no manual channel level adjustments to get it this way every time I transition from a DD source to a 2-channel source.

    I did try 2-channel via source direct, but I didn't like it. My mains just can't give me the bass response I like. Dual 6.5's can never compete w/ the 12" SPL-1200.

    Overall I am one happy camper .... now to go rent some new DVD's tonight.
     

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