Marantz 6200 or the 5300?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by JohnBrianW., Nov 10, 2002.

  1. JohnBrianW.

    JohnBrianW. Stunt Coordinator

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    Both are priced at $800 canadian. What would you buy? Some of the specs don't mean a lot to me or should I say..I'm not sure what they all mean. I would like to make the purchase quickly, as the 6200's will be gone soon.
     
  2. ChrisAG

    ChrisAG Supporting Actor

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    If you like your music loud or have hard-to-drive speakers, get the 6200. From my experience, it performs slightly better than the 5200 when driven hard. That extra 4 lb. in weight, mostly in the transformer, makes a difference. I would assume the new 5300 is more similar (power wise) to the 5200 than the 6200.
     
  3. JohnBrianW.

    JohnBrianW. Stunt Coordinator

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    I'm not that worried about loudness. A clean musical sound with good HT capabilities is more important. The difference in power I believe is negligable between the 6200 and the 5300, only 15 watts.

    FeaturesSR5300$799
    192kHz/24bit x6 Crystalâ D/A Converters
    Circle Surround 6.1 Version 2
    Dolby Pro-logic II Music & Movie
    6.1 Channel Stereo
    6.1-channel pre-out/6.1 direct-in
    HT-EQ
    90w x6 discrete power
    5 S-video in/ 3 out; 4 Dig in/2 out
    Source-Direct
    Pre-coded System Remote Control
    6.1 DTS-ES Discrete/Neo:6/Dolby EX

    SR6200
    HOME THEATER RECEIVER
    FEATURES
    105W/105W/105W (8 Ohm, Front, Center, Side Surround)
    Dolby Digital® (AC-3)5.1/6.1, DTS® 5.1/6.1 Compatible, Dolby Pro Logic®, Pro Logic® II (Movie, Music)
    Circle Surround® 5.1
    Preset Modes: Hall, Stadium, Matrix,Movie
    All Discrete Amplifier Stages
    192 kHz /24-bit D/A Converters (for front L & R channels)
    6 Channel Stereo Mode
    On Screen Display
    Source Direct
    Delay Time
    30 Presets
    Manual Station Naming
    Display Dimmer
    Timer/Clock
    Headphone Jack
    Rec Out (Source)


    The receiver will be driving totem dreamcatchers 87.5db at 4ohms.
     
  4. Jeff D.

    Jeff D. Supporting Actor

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    Go for the 6200. It is a better sounding receiver than the old 5200 and the new 5300. You will lose some of the latest and greatest surround modes, but the sonic rewards of going for the 6200 will be worth it. Get 'em before they're gone!

    /Jeff
     
  5. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    If you can't get the 6300, I would say the 6200 would be the better choice vs the 5300.
     
  6. ChrisAG

    ChrisAG Supporting Actor

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    JohnBrianW,
    You're not hearing me [​IMG]
    A "Clean musical sound with good HT capabilities," is exactly what I'm talking about with regard to the 6200. On paper, 15W is nothing. I'm speaking from experience, having had both units in my home, testing them out extensively. I believe weight is a better benchmark for power output than Wattage. A good example of this is HK receivers - they tend to have lower power ratings but are capable of delivering the goods, thanks to their transformer heft. Likewise, the extra 4lbs. the 6200 has over the 5200 goes directly into the amplifier.
    The 5200 may be a good performer in its price class, but the 6200 is a definite step up. The fact that your Totem Dreamcatcher's are not very sensitive makes this all the more important.
     
  7. Jeff D.

    Jeff D. Supporting Actor

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    First off, a bit about power ratings. I would NEVER use the weight of a product to judge its power rating. Its ridiculous. Try picking up a tube amplifier - many are heavier than the Denon 5803 and they might only put out 35 watts into 2 channels! Never use weight as your guide...

    There are a few important aspects to power ratings. The most common rating is the continuous rating, which should be stated into a particular impedance, usually 8 ohms. The first thing to look out for here is whether the rating is for one channel, or all five channels driven. Many el-cheapo receivers you can find at your local Wal-Mart have 500watts slapped onto their facias. What they have done is measure the output of one channel - on a good day - and multiplied that by the number of channels. Big mistake.

    You see, each speaker has its own amplifier, and those amps all draw their current from the main power supply of the receiver. If one amp is running it could probably easily pull 100w from the supply - but with all 5? Forget it! On the worst examples, the five channels driven rating could collapse over 50%!! Not good.

    Continuous power is not even that important. You'd be surprised, even at high levels, how little power you are drawing from an amp. I'd argue that even at what most would consider very loud levels you are probably drawing around 35-40 watts max continuous - nothing near 100 watts. If you were, you would be deaf by now.

    The important rating is DYNAMIC power. This is needed for sudden musical peaks or moments of deep bass impact. For just a second or two, your amp needs to be able to deliver a good whallop of power. Remember, the most dangerous thing to your speaker is not too much power, but not enough. When that peak comes, if the amp cannot deliver the power, it will clip and damage the speaker. NAD amps are an excellent example of latent power. Even a modest amp rated at 35 watts might be able to put out 180 watts for peak moments. This is very important.

    Some things to look for in a good power supply (these ratings may not always be available, alas):

    Start at the continuous power rating. Lets say it is 50W continuous at 8 Ohms.

    Now, check to see if the power rating is listed for a different impedance. Ultimately, in this example, for a 4 ohm load you'd like to see something like 100W continuous. This would show a decent design and solid power supply. If the rating is very close, or even less than, the 8 ohm rating, then the power supply design is pretty intolerant.

    Next, check the dynamic power rating. It should be substantially greater than the continuous rating. Think of the NAD example again. I'd like to see a dynamic power rating of 75-100W in this example.

    If you find an amp that meets these criteria, you're set. Don't worry so much about continuous power on its own. Instead, see how the power behaves under these varying conditions.

    In the case of your Totems - they are famously difficult to drive. I would take any increased power capabilities without question, hence the recommendation for the 6200. The power supplies in these Marantz receivers are decent - not stellar, but decent. They do drop off a bit with all five channels driven, but nothing of great significance. The 6200 has a better power supply than the 5200. You may even consider looking for the 7200 at a deal - might be possible since the new models are arriving. The 7200 has an even better power supply, owing to its AB speaker facilities.

    /Jeff
     
  8. JohnBrianW.

    JohnBrianW. Stunt Coordinator

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    You've tested the 5300 out extensively? It just was released 3 weeks ago.

    Loud is different than clean musical ability. Cerwin Vega is built for people who like their music loud, totem is not.
     
  9. Jeff D.

    Jeff D. Supporting Actor

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  10. ChrisAG

    ChrisAG Supporting Actor

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    Jeff Kowerchuk,
    I would not be so naive as to say a 4lb. difference should sell you on one manufacturer over another, or a tube amp over solid state. I was comparing the 6200 to 5200, apples to apples, and you seem to agree the 6200 sounds better. Would you agree that most of the improvement is a result of the heftier transformer, because the units seem identical otherwise.
    JohnBrianW,
    I think most of us here know the difference between "loud" and "clean music ability"
    [​IMG]
    Also, if you were refering to me when you asked if I had tested the 5300, scroll back up to my first and second posts. I tested the 5200, but thought I'd share my experience as the 5300 is probably very similar.
    I'd also recommend the 7200 if it is in your budget, if only for its superior remote. When I purchased my 6200, the 7200 was $500 CDN more than the 6200! In the US the price difference is more like $150 US, a more realistic number. I ended up getting the RC1200 remote at Bay Bloor radio for $200 CDN - it is identical to the 7200's remote, except it has a backlight for the LCD screen. I didn't need the added features of the 7200, so I came out ahead financially.
     
  11. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    I did about the same thing as Chris AG, and I have to agree about the remote, it is a POS - the only downside to the 6200 really. I replaced the remote within a few days (already had a credit at my local dealer from a previous transaction, so what the heck) with a Marantz RC2000MkII. The remote that came with the 6200 works, but I wanted something a bit nicer and easier to use. Had I known the 6200 had that remote and the 7200 came with the RC1200, I would have just bought the 7200 instead.

    I was also quick to notice the difference in weight between the 5200 and 6200. While 15wpc doesn't seem like a lot on paper, the difference in power supply design or components between the two, makes for a noticable (but not night and day) difference in power delivery.

    Between the 6200 and 7200, I cannot hear a difference.
     
  12. Jeff D.

    Jeff D. Supporting Actor

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    Chris;
     
  13. JohnBrianW.

    JohnBrianW. Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks Jeff and Chris for all of your responses. I think I might wait a little and maybe pick something up in the new year a little bit better than either of the 2 mentioned. Perhaps the integra 5.3 or something in the Canadian $1000 range.
     
  14. Doug Smith

    Doug Smith Second Unit

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    Gimme a break. Do you think Marantz would build that many significant individual differences into their receivers if they don't have to? And they don't have to. These receivers are mass produced, and the 4200's to the 7200's all come from the same place. And outside of slight adjustments in power, and chips added in some and deleted in others (eg. circle surround) a Marantz is a Marantz is a Marantz. Drive a 5200 or a 6200 with identical speakers and if you can detect a super noticable difference dedicate your ears to the Smithsonian hall of fame.
     
  15. Marc H

    Marc H Second Unit

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    JohnBrianW (is that you Scott?),
    No problem with the Dream Catcher and either Marantz. Vince designed the Dream Catcher with better quality receivers in mind.
    Do try and hear them on an H/K receiver though if you can too. I like that combination alot.
     
  16. ChrisAG

    ChrisAG Supporting Actor

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    Doug Smith,

    No-one said anything about a "super noticable difference." When you live with a certain setup for a while you can tell the difference when something is changed. Even my room mate noticed a small difference in sound between the 6200 and 5200, and she's no audio enthusiast. The fact is, when you use higher-grade components (even if the "grade" is not a huge step up) better sound can sometimes result.

    You mention that the 4200 and 7200 are manufactured in the same plant, but have you listened to both over time? As you say, they are of different dimensions, weights, power ratings, channel capability and sound chip design. Some of these changes can alter or improve the sound. Nissan probably makes a range of cars in the same plant, sharing wheel bearings and radiator caps, but there is a huge difference between a Sentra and an Altima 3.5 as far as performance goes.

    Too many people on this board and in my home have confirmed the 6200/5200 difference for me to dismiss it as false or psychosomatic.

    JohnBrianW,

    No problem. Though I'm not sure if the Integra 5.3 will be an improvement over the 6200. The 7.2 would be, for HT and added features (I had the similar Onkyo 797 in my home for a week, and while it had more punch than the 6200 for HT, I prefered the Marantz for music).
     
  17. Doug Smith

    Doug Smith Second Unit

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    Don't take my word for it take a look inside - the circuits and chips are almost identical. Sure theres small differences, but generally the electronic power is what you're paying for. Cars are simply constructed in the same plants on different lines - but there parts are not usually interchangable (but even here sometimes they are in the example of say motors in the Golf and Jetta with Volkswagon) Whereas with receivers of the same brand make many things are - ask a repairman. What is a better discussion is the differences in circuits and chips put into say a Sony or a Marantz. Where the chips are they manufactured, and where they are assembled? Another point of contention may be between the 200 and the 300 models. An example here is that it looks as if Marantz has switched to a legit ES chip (the name escapes me) over there own propietary 6.1. This ES technology has had its problems (eg. sometimes it won't recognize signals).
     
  18. ChrisAG

    ChrisAG Supporting Actor

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    You ignored my 1st and 3rd paragraph, above. But anyway, chips are struck at almost the microscopic level. To say you can "see" little difference means nadda. One could operate at 96KHz, the other at 192, or 48, or have more or less functionality built-in, be of a previous generation, etc.

    If there is so little change from the 4200 to 7200, where does the extra 10lb. of the 7200 come from? Lead ingots in a false bottom?

    If there truly is no sound difference, then everyone who buys mid-range or high-end gear must be crazy, myself included (not that the 6200 is high-end).

    And since what changes there are do not affect the sound, I suppose I should tell my room mate the sound difference she pointed out was all in her head (despite the fact I never told her beforehand when I switched receiver models).
     
  19. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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  20. Doug Smith

    Doug Smith Second Unit

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    Most of the weight in any receiver is in the power source. As power increases so does the weight of the power sources. This is true for any (well most) electronic devices. I agree power is essential to how hard the amps are being driven. Which brings us back to the original point - this is what you're paying the extra money for. And if you have a large area which needs covering with sound it makes sense to buy big. But in a medium to small room save your money. By the way I meant the ES chip in the new 300 models. The old 200 model 6.1 has no problem I know of.
     

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