Major Computer Problem... PLEASE Help!

Discussion in 'Computers' started by Adam Sanchez, Dec 24, 2005.

  1. Adam Sanchez

    Adam Sanchez Supporting Actor

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    Hey all,

    Merry Christmas. Right on Xmas even I have come accross a major problem and I really hope someone can help me. I'm pretty worried!

    The situtation: My brother bought a new CPU fan for his LGA775 processor weeks ago and today I finally got some time to install it.

    So I took everything out of the case, installed the fan like it says to. I had to remove the MB from the case since his new fan attached with screws from the bottom instead of just "snapping" on from the top like the Stock Intel Fan.

    So I boot up the system... and the second the system starts to intialize... the thing shuts off dead. I know P4 boards have a 4pin connector near the mobo which I have never been clear if that was needed. If I have it off, the system wont shut off, but it wont boot either. With it on, it will start to boot for a split second before everything goes dead.

    I did not change anything, except of course putting a new fan on. I did not plug in some of his case fans because he had more than he needed going but I dont see why that would cause a problem.

    I did notice one thing when I put the fan on is that the motherboard was slighting bending from a side view now. I dont think I have it on too tight... or if I loosen it I dont know how much I should since I know the fan and cpu need a very snug fit.

    I'm at a loss as to what's wrong or what to do. This is his only computer and he needs it. Any advice I would be so greatful for.

    Should I try to put the old fan back on? Just to see?
     
  2. Adam Sanchez

    Adam Sanchez Supporting Actor

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    I wanted to mention one more thing. I have taken the processor fan back off to see if I did eveything right and I noticed that the heat compound Im using (arctic silver) spread out from the pressure of the hint sink. The compound looks... for lack of a better word... very moist. Could that be my problem? The fan came with some compound... I think Im gonna use it instead.
     
  3. SethH

    SethH Cinematographer

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    You may have put too much compound on the CPU. How much did you put on? It takes only a single, very small drop on the die. You need to try cleaning it off using alcohol (look up this procedure on Google) and then try to install again.

    I'm not sure if that's the entire problem, but that's where you need to start.
     
  4. Adam Sanchez

    Adam Sanchez Supporting Actor

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    I just redit it again with less compound. I know I must of got the right amount this time but the problem remains. Would could it be? is the cpu that touchy that it wont boot up?

    Could I of fried my Mobo or CPU somehow? The MB does have that slight bend. I dont know how else to fasten the new fan though. I would appreciate any more suggestions. I'm going to have to give this up for tonight.

    Thanks anyone who tries to help me. Merry Christmas!
     
  5. David Norman

    David Norman Producer
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    You can test the MB integrity by reinstalling the old fan and seeing if it will boot.

    Does the new fan start to spin or not?
    Is the fan plugged into the MB or just connected to the power supply via 3 or 4 pin Molex?
    How was the old CPU fan connected?

    Some MB's must have some way to 'know' that the fan in spinning or it will shut off. I'm pretty sure there is a way to tell some MB's to ignore the feedback loop.
     
  6. Steve Berger

    Steve Berger Supporting Actor

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    Almost all motherboards detect the CPU fan rotation (3 pin connector). Perhaps he had a case fan plugged into the CPU connector which is now off. Sometimes you can disable fan detection in the BIOS but you have to get it to boot first. I plug a case fan or a power supply fan onto the CPU connector to get into the BIOS on my watercooled systems (obviously no CPU fan).

    I have also discovered that a bad fan sensor can crash the OS when trying to run a motherboard utility.
     
  7. Chris

    Chris Lead Actor

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    Ok, here we go, in order:

    1. The 4 Pin Power connector MUST MUST MUST be connected. If it is not connected, your board should never power up.

    2. If this is an LGA775 board (PCI-Express) in most cases, it will require a 24 pin power supply. Make sure you have the appropriate powersupply for your motherboard, and that the main ATX connector covers all pins on the board; older PSU's were 20pin, 24pin is new with PCI-Express boards.

    3. You might make sure that nothing causes the MB to now "ground" to the case, this is a metal-to-metal connection between the board and the case where there is not a specific "screw" area. Things that can cause this are standoffs/mounts where there are no position for them on the MB, and if you have not properly secured your CPU fan to cause a metal-metal contact. Both of these will initiate a ground, which can cause a short "burst" of activity when an attempt to power on happens, then nothing.

    Try these and let us know how it goes!
     
  8. Joseph DeMartino

    Joseph DeMartino Lead Actor

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    When you mentioned removing and reinstalling the mobo alarm bells went off. They got louder when you mentioned "bending". I have had mobos that come into contact with the case do exactly what you're describing. THe solder points on the underside of the board can make an elxectical connection if they touch the metal inside th case and this can cause exaclty the symptom you mention. Check to make sure the motherboard is properly installed and not "shorting out" as it were anywhere on the case.

    Regards,

    Joe
     
  9. Adam Sanchez

    Adam Sanchez Supporting Actor

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    Hey again guys,

    Merry Christmas and thank for the replies. I'm not at home right now to try your suggestions but I still wanted to reply and mention a few things.

    First off yes the new fan does spin fine. I don't think any of this problem is related to the new fan. The new fan connects to the MB near the processor in the same place the old stock fan did. It's a 4 pin connector. Smaller than a molex. designed just for the cpu fan as far as i know. The MB also has a few 3 pin connectors for case fans.

    My MB has all the power cables connected to it. The longer one that connects near the IDE cables (usually) and the 4 pin connector that connects near the cpu. The PSU is fairly new and a good quality so I am certain it could be ruled out as a problem.

    Now finally I'm not sure I follow about the board being grounded. That's something I DONT want right? The system does turn on but as soon as th cpu starts to boots, there is a quick beep and everything shuts down. So it must be doing that to protect the cpu from something?

    The board is in the case with those little brass risers that you screw into the case to the matching screwholes above. Is something wrong there? I am not using all the screw holes though there are the brass risers underneath I believe every hole where a screw can go. I just dont have all the screws.

    The board does have a bend on it since I put the new fan on so one side of the board rises but I have ot down with a screw (it on a corner hole.)

    I did try the old fan just to see but it didn't help.

    Thanks
     
  10. Chris

    Chris Lead Actor

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    Try breadboarding your motherboard.

    Remove your motherboard entirely from you case. Sit it on a non-conductive surface (wood is good [​IMG] Connect up a PS, and put a video card on it so that you'll have video.

    Check to see if it will power up (you only have to temporarily short the power button)

    If it does, then you have a contact within the way your MB is mounted in the case.

    You might also have one of these issues which could also cause this:

    (1) a metal hold from the backplate could have slid into the Ethernet/USB/Firewire ports on your MB, creating a short.
    (2) you could have a standoff where their is no screw mount on your MB.

    Check to make sure those are taken care of.

    Good luck!
     
  11. Adam Sanchez

    Adam Sanchez Supporting Actor

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    Hey everyone,

    And Chris thanks for that suggestion. I am going to try that tonight. I have not had a chance to play with the broken PC in a few days since my girl was going away for 2 1/2 weeks so we had to get our time in. Me and my fairly expert PC friend are going to try and tackle this thing again tonight and I'm going to try the "breadboarding" as you call it. [​IMG]

    One question though I don't follow, what does this mean:

    (you only have to temporarily short the power button)

    Can't I just power on the board by flipping the power switch on the psu? Or by just pluggin in the panel connectors to the mb from the case, even though the mb wont be in the case?

    What do I wanna set the board on when I try this?
     
  12. Chris

    Chris Lead Actor

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    A non-conductive surface. I normally have a plastic cover. Use a ground strap if you have one (if not, touch your PSU right before you do this to at least ground yourself "as best you can")
     
  13. Andrew Bunk

    Andrew Bunk Screenwriter

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    Chris,

    Question for ya since you will likely know the answer. I just put together a system for a friend. The board is a Lanparty UT nF4 SLI-D, and the case is an Aspire X-Navigator with the 500 watt PSU. Now, I was going to replace the PSU right away, but things seem pretty stable. I'm starting to hear rumblings that this board may require a 24 pin connector from the PSU.

    Now the PSU in the case has a connection that exactly matches the 24-pin connection on the board. I keep hearing you shouldn't use a 20 pin PSU with the board. My question is, wouldn't you have to adapt the PSU connection to make that even possible? The connection from the PSU fits the board exactly, but I'm wondering if maybe the connector only physically resembles a 24 pin, but has 4 empty slots or something. I also have two 4-pin power connectors connected from PSU (one HDD type and one FDD type) directly to the board. I'm only running one PCI-X graphics card (7800GT), and the card itself has power connectors which are also connected. Assuming the PSU has enough wattage, which I think it does, to me it seems like I should be supplying enough power to the board.

    Your thoughts are most apppreciated!
     
  14. Chris

    Chris Lead Actor

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    You can buy 20pin-24pin ATX power adapters. They are out there, and generally cheap, at most smaller stores - about $10. I've used them for several boards, especially those with integrated video & PCI Express (example: MSI-RS480 ATI Xpress200 board). All PCI-Express MBs are supposed to use a 24 pin connector; some have options to avoid it, but no SLI board that I know of could do that.

    The Lanparty board most definitely has a 24 pin connector, and you'll need one. I'm not sure what 500W PSU is in that case; many PSU's that come with cases are, unfortunately, not so good. While they may say that they support 500W, look through the label for "true" output, not just maximum. A PSU that runs at maximum load all the time is one doomed to failure.

    I've had no problem converting 20 Pin PSU to 24 Pin, and several PSU's I wouldn't even think about in regards to any problems (Seasonic, PC Power & Cooling, Antec, Vantec, Thermaltake, Enermax) whereas some I wouldn't chance it on (Deer, etc.)

    Read the label on your PSU and you should be able to get a good idea. [​IMG]
     
  15. Adam Sanchez

    Adam Sanchez Supporting Actor

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    Hey all,

    I just wanted to let you all know that this problem was resolved. Long story short, I had to get a new motherboard. last night with my friend through a process of elimination we rounded it down to the MB being a problem. Then upon futher inspection he discovered a tiny metal contact on the MB near the front panel connector pins had been bumped nearly off. Being much too small to sodder (at least as far as our skills went) I went out and bought my brother a new board and of course all works fine.

    Again thank you for all the inputs. I do appreciate it. [​IMG]
     
  16. Andrew Bunk

    Andrew Bunk Screenwriter

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    Thanks for the info Chris.

    I don't have the PC in my possession anymore so I can't check the output, and the Aspire site isn't very helpful.

    I just found it odd that the connection from the PSu could match the connection on the board exactly but still possibly not be a 24 pin connection.

    I replaced the case supplied PSU in my 2 year old PC a while ago with an Antec TruePower 500, and I've never had any power warnings since.

    I had to put the PC together fairly quickly in time for Christmas, so I didn't get to research stuff as much as I would have liked. The system seems OK right now, but I have recommended to its current owner that I'd like to see the PSU upgraded. The current case-supplied one is a see-through and lit PSU, so there's a certain aesthetic value, but personally the novelty of that wears off and eventually you just want better performance.
     

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