Magnepans...any thoughts on them? (1 Viewer)

[Tom Brennan]

Ling---What, here I reach out a hand in reasonableness and you crack wise with me.

Ling, uh, I have heard new Maggies recently and they have the same faults they always did to me; poor bass, "mellowness" and poor dynamics.

How do you expect to talk about how speakers sound or compare WITHOUT talking taste? It's ALL personal perception and opinion.

And do ALL Maggies use this gee-whiz technology (well it was gee-whiz in 1930 anyway when ribbons and planar magnetics were new) or are not some built just as mine were; Saran-wrap with magnet wire glued to it opposite refrigerator magnets glued to a perforated sheet?

What's the matter with old Bose 901s anyway, I mean REALLY the matter, not just what audiophile fashion holds. Maggies have a similar presentation of sound to 901s. I think lots of Maggie owners would love 901s in a DBT.

 

[ling_w]

Tom,

As you can see in the original post:

. I am a big fan of the "Martin Logan" sound, but am not sure how Magnepans compare.

I am just trying to define the sound based on what the user's expectation is. Not something that has no relevence to him. It would be like someone talking about how much better a MC cartridge is compared to a MM, then someone jumps in and say MC cartridge sucks but not telling the person he prefers CD.

Maggie people still talk about soundstage and imaging, so Bose 901s are out of the question for them. Maybe it would be good for the people who have their maggies flat against the back wall.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Ling, uh, I have heard new Maggies recently and they have the same faults they always did to me; poor bass, "mellowness" and poor dynamics.

My money is on Ling. My speakers are no where near the mellow end of the scale and the dynamics are as good a JM Lab Grand Utopias. Tom, I think you have not heard the speakers with appropriate high current amps. When this is the case the dynamics are much lighter and bass is less controlled.
Aaaah, bass. The layman's biggest gripe on Maggies. Well let me tell you mine go down to 40 hz cleanly! The 3.6s go to 34 hz and the 20.1s 25hz! That's pretty good and you get awesome accuracy and a lack of bass coloration from the box.
Maggies are the ultimate way to think "outside the box"
Right now I am listening to Fritz Reiner's Respighi Pines of Rome on XRCD2 and it sounds like an orchestra is in my house.
There is one thing the Maggies do very well that is not talked about as much: musical note attack and delay.
I have found as a recording engineer that the key to dynamics is getting the attack of each note right (tight and clean) and the decay of that note to be natural and properly extended (but not too much). My Maggies seem to do this better than most dynamic speakers I have heard.
Also, the key to realistic recreation IMHO involves three other key apsects:
(1) soundstage capability - the Maggies have an ability to disappear and this increases as you move up the line. The 3.6s are my next purchase.
(2) liquid midrange - the most natural, liquid midrange is the bulk of how we perceive music. As J. Gordon Holt said, get the midrange right and everything else is an afterthought.
(3) high frequency extension - here is the real strength of Maggie's ribbon and quasi-ribbon system. This technology I believe has the cleanest most extended, airy highs and I feel that creates the illusion of instruments precisely located on the stage and very realistic tonality. Jonathan Valin has stated on several occasions he thinks the Maggie ribbon tweeter is the best HF device to be found.
I have used Maggies for the past 14 years and I love them as you can probably tell.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

I was wondering if any mambers have any experience or thoughts on Magnepans in general? I have found out that they are quite a bit cheaper than other electrostatics/ribbons out there. I am a big fan of the "Martin Logan" sound, but am not sure how Magnepans compare.

Arvin, I apologize for not answering your question so here are some thoughts based on my living also with Martin Logans.
First, let me say I think the new Martin Logan's are significantly better than the old which I did not like. I also have met Gayle Sanders and think he is one of the most class acts in the audio business-smart engineer, down to earth, actually cares about his entry level customers. he is very generous as well and often invites many to his home in Kansas. If every one in audio were like him, we audiophiles would not be constantly living down the "snob" label.
Having said that:
Here's what I like about M-L
(1) some of the best vocal reproduction around
(2) clear, open midrange
(3) great soundstage if set up properly
Here's what I don't like about them
(1) need to plug in the speakers to AC lines to power the "arc" this adds complexity if you AC conidition your line.
(2) much better but still poor bass integration. electrostatics still cannot do bass so woofers must be cleverly added and despite the really excellent recent designs, I still hear a distinct crossover bump when there is a lot of bass. This takes away from the coherency of the speaker.
(3) not as dynamic as the Maggies, based on my purchases and recent auditions.
Just some thoughts that I hope help you in your quest.

 

[John Royster]

Lee, you forgot "open, liquid, lickety, smooth midrange".
To tell you the truth I've never heard a lack of dynamics in mine. go figure.
biggest cons are the hybrid design (mine are crossed at 180 Hz so I do get a lot of bass from the panel), strong amp is required.
Again to the original poster, I like both ML and magnapan. If you like a planar sound, then maggies have to be on your list.

 

[Arvin_C]

Thanks everyone!

Knew I would get informed opinions...I really do love the planar sound, but, unfortunately, I do not think I will be able to position them correctly in my basement to get the most out of them. I do not think I will be able to place them so that they "breathe" air the way they are supposed to.

Funny, on the pics at Maggie's site, they have their H/T setup speakers mounted onto the walls. But, from what I have gathered here, and from my brief experience with Martin Logans, they need to be placed away from the wall in order to get good sound from them. Or is this not the case?

BTW, I really want to get the Maggies, but may have decided to go with a NHT setup...I have a post further down in the speaker forum.

Thanks!

 

[John Royster]

Arvin,

Don't know if I mentioned it but you can get away with 2 feet from the front wall with planars. the more the better but 2 feet works good as well. Side walls aren't that big of a problem because of the directional wave source.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

I do not think I will be able to place them so that they "breathe" air the way they are supposed to.

We would really want to know the dimensions with a short sketch of your basement room to be able to give useful advice. I will say some of my friends have Maggies in very small rooms and they sound fine.

Can you share the room dimensions, etc. with us?

 

[Tom Brennan]

Lee---I used my Maggies with a Dynaco 400, a powerful amp. Dynamics were poor and the dynamics on all the planar speakers I've heard are poor though I've yet to hear the big Soundlabs. Can your Maggies hit 120db+ fullrange and not fall apart? That's what's needed for really good dynamics, that's where the bar is. If you're Maggies can't they may sound pleasing but they don't have great dynamics. I'd probably think that Grand Utopia thing had good but not great dynamics, what, a single 15" direct-radiator? Not so hot, that arrangement is about at the bottom of what's needed for good dynamics. Evidently you and I have different ideas of what constitutes good dynamics. As for tonality, image etc. why argue, it's all subjective. I find it amusing how incredulous some of you are that somebody actually has the gall to dislike Maggies.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

I used my Maggies with a Dynaco 400, a powerful amp. Dynamics were poor and the dynamics on all the planar speakers I've heard are poor though I've yet to hear the big Soundlabs.

Tom,

Maggies are good at dynamics. What may have happened is a bad match with the amp. I have never heard Dynaco on them. Also, if you have Maggi Is, these are frankly ancient technology: I think from the 70s.

I have never heard anyone complain about the dynamics of these speakers. I am very sensitive to dynamics as someone who works in a studio.

This is what Jonathan Valin wrote in the recent TAS:

"Magnepan's 1.6 is simply one of the great high end speaker values...with its top to bottom frequency coherence, great speed, wide-open soundstaging and transparency, this moderately priced Maggies is a music lover's pleasure."

Plus, they have been picked by several notable reviewers like Brian Damkroger of Stereophile, Jonathan Valin of TAS, and Wayne Garcia now of TAS for their personal reference systems and recommended systems. They are a perennial Recommended Component in Stereophile.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

it manages to retain all of the traditional Magnepan strengths-the coherence and wonderful disappearing act-while spectacularly improving on the areas of dynamics and resolution of detail.

This is from the most recent Stereophile Recommended Components issue. It was rated CLASS B: Full-Range

 

[Arvin_C]

Hello Lee,

I have to get the exact room demensions from my house packet...I just bought the house, settlement is end of August, but do not move in 'till October.

Using some money available to buy some of my H/T pieces now though, so I don't end up spending it somewhere else!

Will post the specs on the room soon!

Thansk for all your help.

 

[Tom Brennan]

Lee---Loudspeaker dynamics are easily objectively quantified, the louder a speaker gets with low distortion the better the dynamics, period. It's like a car's 1/4 mile time. That you're satisfied with Maggie dynamics speaks to your taste more than to the objective capabilities of the speaker. You may not know anyone who's complained of Maggie dynamics but I know many who have, evidently we run in different circles.
Citing the preferences of the establishment audiophile press means nothing to me, I've little use for them and consider them shills for the audio manufacturers. They represent audio as a consumer interest and ignore such trends as Vintage, kits and the DIY SET-horn scene, trends that don't fit their view of audio. I suppose you can't sell much advertising advising people they can build amps from the RCA tube guide or to scour ebay and thrift shops for used Altec and JBL drivers and old Fisher and McIntosh amps. Or that they can get excellent sound from inexpensive kits and prosound gear. Were these magazines really interested in good sound for it's own sake they would attempt to cover all the roads to good sound, they don't. No, they cover audio as conspicuous consumption. It's telling to me that the rise of "high end" audio and all the overpriced gear and cockamamie theories that go along with it coincided with the rise to money of the Baby-Boomers; the most selfish, spoiled, self-important and delusional generation of Americans in our history. Whew!
www.chicagohornspeakerclub.org

 

[Chu Gai]

Well different magazines cater to different interests. My personal selection for most deluded Americans were those involved in the Salem Witch Trials. I don't own either Maggies or ML's but can find much good to say about either. So if you're getting rid of a pair, anyone, and would care to drop them off, I'll be quite pleased to have either of these fine speakers. Dents are OK, I'm not prejudiced!

 

[Tom Brennan]

Chu Gai---You mean there aren't witches? Maggies and MLs are good speakers but have weaknesses, I liked my Maggies. Liked 'em ever better when I bi-amped them and ran them only over 400hz with a Klipsch basshorn below 400hz. Bragg is a good dog but Holdfast is a better one.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Loudspeaker dynamics are easily objectively quantified, the louder a speaker gets with low distortion the better the dynamics, period.

This is true to some extent, however the Maggies actually measure well so we win there also!
But then again, you can't measure everything audio...I agree with Saurav on this one. What the ears hear and the emotion communicated are the important things.
I just find Maggies to be among the most musical I have heard at any price. Maybe it is horn speakers for you Tom. Not my cup of tea, but I have no problem with that.

 

[John Royster]

I'm more concerned about ANYBODY or ANYTHING that would need speakers to produce 120 dbs. I listen in the 90s and that is WAY loud. I tend to want my ears to still function when I'm in my 60s.

oh well, "ehhh, what? huh? Need to turn up my stereo to ungodly loud so I can hear the instruments"

 

[ling_w]

Dynamics doesn't mean deafening SPL. It should be determined by how accurate it reproduces the front row at a rock concert. If it is, then the car audio competition guys wins hand down.
There is dynamics even in music that peaks out at 90dB.

I liked my Maggies. Liked 'em ever better when I bi-amped them and ran them only over 400hz with a Klipsch basshorn below 400hz.

And miss out the lovely horn sounding midrange of the Klipsch?

 

[Chu Gai]

ling...how dare you leave out the intentionally poor accounting practices of the US govt?!

 

[ling_w]

Chu,

Is it intent or ignorance, besides the scheme that would have had to been created to keep Soc Sec afloat if it was ever privatized, with all the current receipients having to receive their payment out of some virtual pool.

Plus there is a difference between intent and malicious intent.