MAG-LEV Trains (1 Viewer)

[Trace Downing]

Again we look at Amtrack which replaces neither cars or planes, and it's dying...in fact I would say for the most part it was never alive.

Two points I need to bring up. First, rail travel was king for most of a century before Amtrack was ever thought of. Air travel gained in popularity until the rail lines dried up around the late 50s (about the time the Interstates were finished. Amazing coincidence huh?). That's when Amtrack canme into being. Second, since you didn't answer me before, and you brought it up again, I'll ask again...Why must something relace something else? What is wrong with a variety of solutions that best serve the wide array of transport needs. If you're trying to prove a point that One size never fits all then I agree, but that doesn't mean we have to suffer with just ONE solution.

 

[AjayM]

Second, since you didn't answer me before, and you brought it up again, I'll ask again...Why must something relace something else? What is wrong with a variety of solutions that best serve the wide array of transport needs. If you're trying to prove a point that One size never fits all then I agree, but that doesn't mean we have to suffer with just ONE solution.

Because the Mag-Lev doesn't really solve any problems. What is the upside to it? What is going to attract people to it once the novelty wears off? It's going to be just as expensive as air travel and it's going to be slower. How is this a better solution? How can it even compete? Sure we can come up with very narrow scenrio's that make it sound so attractive (but even those have holes in them large enough to drive an Amtrak train through them), but they are incredibly limited.

Choice is a good thing, but make the choices good ones. Or make them bad choices, then nobody will use it and it will go away.

Andrew

 

[Trace Downing]

That 5 mil per mile or whatever projection is WAAAAYYYYY off base!

That came from a maglev company's website. Please elaborate. What do you know that they don't?

 

[Philip_G]

How much does one think all the airport infrastructure has cost the country over the years? I'd bet it's hundreds of billions. Who pays the salaries of Air Traffic Control and pays for the airports? It's not the airlines.

depends on the airport how it's operated. Some airports are actually profitabe, they make enough renting shop space and landing fees/usage fees to make a profit. Airlines rent their gate space, and pay other usage fees. Some pay a set per use fee, some airports have an agreement that if it isn't profitable at the end of the year the airlines split up the defecit and pay up. You seem to forget airports do much more than handle vacationers, and have a huge effect on the economy in the area, and create thousands of jobs (for a larger one)
Airports are also financed based on ticket taxes, all that money goes into an aviation only fund and can only be used for airports/airspace etc. can not be spent elsewhere. I think there's also a small fee on each ticket that goes to the airport that serves you but I can't recall for sure. It's like 3$ a ticket. Airports are fascinating to study
the federal government doesn't really pay to build an airport, there are some funds out there but I don't think much, there can be private funding, or municipal bonds etc, many different ways to fund them. The fed might pay for an upgrade here or there, but usually only match funds at 50%. The ATC personnel are government employees (mostly, they are working on sub contracting out some towers to private firms but I'm not sure how that's going, Buzz can comment on that for us ) the navaids are also installed, maintained, and paid for by the FAA AFAIK. That's about all I can remember without consulting textbooks and I'm far too lazy for that.

 

[AjayM]

Airports will only get more crowded, air traffic will only get more congested, and air travel times will only increase until it chokes on itself. This has been predicted, and past predictions have already come to pass. So, what is next then?

And when that happens people will stop flying for awhile...it's that free-market cycle thing that doesn't exist. When that happens the airlines will have to figure out why it's happening and then fix it, which they will fix.

Andrew

 

[Trace Downing]

Sure a test case...use your own money then, keep my tax dollars out of it.

I believe that if they can spend $350 million investigating blow jobs in the Oval Office, then they can at least spend that kind of money, and do a test market in between Baltimore and Washington. :b

 

[Philip_G]

Some glowing, and inspiring examples of deregulation, are... Eastern Airlines

Eastern is more a victim of a nasty machinists strike and bad management than de-regulation.

TWA before you go there hadn't made a profit in something like 4 years straight.

 

[AjayM]

I believe that if they can spend $350 million investigating blow jobs in the Oval Office, then they can at least spend that kind of money, and do a test market in between Baltimore and Washington.

Yea, let's market a 300mph train on a stretch to short to actually make use of Mag-Lev's biggest benefits....sounds like something a gov't regulated program would do.

Andrew

 

[Trace Downing]

Well Andrew, it appears that we have different concepts of how things should be run. Since we can't talk about public projects vs. private enterprise without getting political (and I'm probably already in hot water with that last post), I'll just lay off the gov advocacy.
I would like to point out that your fear is coming true...
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And, BTW: solar cells are still 75% effective in overcast weather. That's why you still get sunburnt under the clouds.
Just a couple of things...

but a few years ago when I had total basic phone service (comparable to 1984) my bill was a whopping $12-15 a month (and that includes a few local-long distance calls)...whew-such hardship...want to figure that out in 1984 dollars?

When was this? There were two stages of de-regulation. Long Distance in 1984, then Local service, and intra-LATA (local LD) in 1996. Was this prior to 1996? If so, your prices were still under regulations.

 

[Trace Downing]

Why I hate air travel;
The inconvenience of passenger check-ins. After 9/11, the inability to park near the terminal to pick up flyers, the security system probelms. Being herded around like cattle to reach the gate. Putting up with delays, overbooking, other passengers and their oversized bags. Sitting on the tarmac for 20 minutes while I get intoxicated by the jet fumes entering into the cabin. Packed into a seat like a sardine, and actively discouraged during flight to stretch my legs and roam around the cabin. Peanuts instead of a meal, even though meals are atrocious. Ever hear the phrase..."Stewardess! I must have this recipe!"? Baggage claims that don't get my bags on the carousel in less time than 20-30 minutes. Having to drive out of town to the airport, and pay for parking, or relying on friends to drop you off. Pricing structures that allow some to fly below actual cost, while late comers get gouged, and subsidize the cheaper fares. I'm not the only one who hates air travel.
Why it's going to fall apart, if improvements aren't made;
In every airport in the U.S., 30-60% of air traffic is short commuter flights (shuttles) of less than 400 miles. Mainly business travelers (FAA stats). Growing gridlock, and popular flight schedules are placing a strain on a precise air traffic control system, which wasn't designed for such volumes. The more air traffic increases, the more likely plane crashes are to occur. A Boeing analysis says that by 2015, there would be an airliner crash somewhere in the world almost weekly. Increasing operational costs overshadow capital inventments. Maintenence on the current airports freezes out needed improvements such as automation of the air traffic control system, which is still largely manual. The FAA is asking that their federal budgets be "shielded" from discretionary budget caps. Airports are in need of investment, to the tune of $2 billion a year, over the next 5 years. That is over and above their current federal budget of $14 billion.
Now, if just $2 Billion was diverted from the highway fund, which is $33 billion, for rail improvements(even improvement of current rail based lines), and cut the aircraft shuttle services down to eventually nothing, there would be more than enough capacity at airports for longer than 500 mile jaunts across the country and seas. For reference, currently Amtrack gets about $361 million in federal funds. not enough to replace the rotting ties, or aging locomotives. Amtrack can break even on it's Acela track, if the track improvements were made. It just can't afford the capital improvements.
These figures I got from an FAA comission on air traffic gridlock and future predictions, and advocates for rail travel commentaries. Both online and free.
Now, let's take you're "Let the market decide" approach here. If tracks were improved, or ML guideways were built. Then the airlines would have an option of providing service on either of these alternative inter-city services, and buy their own maglev vehicles and locomotives and passenger cars to run on the guideways/tracks. This would make up for the loss of business that they would experience from the elimination of the majority of their less than 400 mile flights.

 

[AjayM]

When was this? There were two stages of de-regulation. Long Distance in 1984, then Local service, and intra-LATA (local LD) in 1996. Was this prior to 1996? If so, your prices were still under regulations.

This was in 98-99, it was basic service with no frills (didn't include anything like call waiting, caller id, etc). Was quite cheap (but it had to be since there were other local phone providers).
Andrew

 

[Trace Downing]

This was in 98-99, it was basic service with no frills (didn't include anything like call waiting, caller id, etc). Was quite cheap (but it had to be since there were other local phone providers).

The cost of the service could be. But with all of the taxes, surcharges, and other fees, such as UCF., the check you wrote each month should've been about $22-27. Who was you're provider? BellSouth, GTE?

 

[AjayM]

The cost of the service could be. But with all of the taxes, surcharges, and other fees, such as UCF., the check you wrote each month should've been about $22-27. Who was you're provider? BellSouth, GTE?

Bellsouth,
Here's the link to the page,
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$9.08 a month (I wasn't living in Boca back then), I don't remember what other fees were on there, but it certainly wasn't a lot....as I said I don't remember a local bill much more than $15 or so.
Andrew

 

[Philip_G]

Aww come on. You love flying. Zipping along at FL350 at 400mph. Relaxing, having a nice drink, friendly flight attendants, smooth, safe ride. Best way to travel hands down
for the love of god fly often I need a job and the market sucks

 

[Trace Downing]

Well Ajay, you are a rare lucky phone customer! So what's you're bill look like now?

 

[AjayM]

Ummm, including the DSL line, a few out of state calls, it's about $100-120 a month. Compared to what I had before though I get with the complete choice plus plan;
Call Waiting Deluxe
Caller ID with Name and Number Delivery
Caller ID with Number Delivery
Privacy Director
Call Waiting
Call Return
Call Forwarding
Preferred Call Forwarding
Remote Access to Call Forwarding
Call Forward Busy Line
Call Forward Don't Answer
Call Forward Don't Answer with Ring Control
Message Waiting Indicator
Message Waiting Indicator with Audio and Visual
RingMaster Service - 1 Additional Telephone Number
Three-Way Calling
Repeat Dialing
Speed Dial 8
Call Block
BellSouth Call Selector
Call Tracing

I've actually used most of those services at one time or another, seems ridiculous some of them, but it's incredibly handy to have.

Andrew