Made in Japan components....are they better than others? (1 Viewer)

[Chu Gai]

Awwwwww come on Shane! Not everything sounds the same. I concede the issue of tubes, speakers, room environment. And even when things do sound the same, which to me means that one could not reliably distinguish A from B, doesn't necessarily mean that one buys the least expensive. There are issues of preference such as style, feel or weight, features, track record, warranty, proximity of service, uniqueness, perhaps its minority owned, and a host of other factors. No I don't think everyone ought to DBT stuff but for me, I find it disingenuous to suspend scientific scrutiny and call it up when it suits my purposes. And no, its not up to 'you', its up to the manufacturer. In lieu of that, its up to the reviewer, which to my mind, fall sadly short of properly informing the consumer. They write pretty nice though and I'm constantly amazed at their ability to walk on water!

Now for what its worth, I personally have a preference to not purchase anything made or originating in a particular country. This is based solely upon my dislike of that country's particular governmental policy with respect to the United States on certain private matters.

However I will say the following. If I had knowledge, not opinion or hearsay, that products produced in Country A or that are made on particular days of the week, were more prone to problems, it would factor into my decision. From my experience, which of course cannot cover all the bases, I find that if quality is an issue for a company in the parent country, it's also an equally important issue in the satellite country.

 

[Justin Doring]

I concede that Japanese automobiles are, generally speaking, more reliable than American or European ones. That would fall under reliablility, however, not build quality and fit and finish. The Infiniti I35 is an excellent automobile and among the finest in its class, but the build quality and fit and finish does not even approach the BMW 325i. Comparatively speaking, the former feels like a Tupperware container, while the latter feels like a Panzer.

Chu, the "reasons" you give for why North American and European electronics sound better than Japanese ones are not reasons at all. I don't profess to tell others what they can and cannot hear, but I can hear a difference, and a $1000 NAD receiver (made in China or Malaysia, I might add) sounds better than a $1000 Yamaha, Onkyo, Denon, Sony ES, etc., which are made in China or Malaysia as well, just as an American made B&K receiver sounds better than a Japanese made Denon receiver.

 

[Willy burz]

Well... once you go DENON you never go back

I think they're still made in Japan.?!

 

[StevenK]

The Infiniti I35 is an excellent automboile and among the finest in it's class, but the build quality and fit and finish does not even approach the BMW 325i. Comparatively speaking, the former feels like a Tupperware container, while the latter feels like a Panzer.

Well, I just have to disagree with you. Regardless of reliability issues, the I35, to me puts the 325i to shame in terms of build quality and fit and finish. In fact, my girlfriend's M3 more closely approaches the build quality of the I35. I will concede that the Bimmer is a much more fun to drive car and is a better performer all the way around, but when it comes to the tight tolerances or the interior panels, the squeeks and squels of the the dashboard, the rattle of the doors...those Bavarians need to sit in on an Infiniti Quality Control course.

 

[Chu Gai]

God I HATE tupperware! Cars drive differently thank god there's plenty out there for us to choose from!
if you wish, we can discuss listening methodology off-line. then the rationale for my 'reasons' may become clear. If not, no biggie! No foul, no harm

 

[Kevin. W]

Well... once you go DENON you never go back

Your right I'll never go back. Back to receivers that is. I had a Denon 1801 which was a work of art for what I paid for it. But now that I have a Marantz AV560U/Rotel RMB-1066 setup I'll never go back. NEVER.

Kevin

 

[John_KM]

Speaking as a 'newbie' I've been absolutely fascinated by this thread. Taking a look at ones purchasing prejudices, or 'closed set' as a friend in marketing put it, is an interesting excercise in comparing the subjective and the objective to say the least.

Years ago when I made my first tentatieve steps into HiFi, I owned a number of different components, among them an almost unheard of brand these days, Sansui amp, and still a big force in HT, Yamaha. The magazines, and hifi stores of the day, all promoted the Japanese product as the 'mainstream' and the Euro, mainly English, and American HiFi products as being the 'bees knees' - where it was at for the 'serious' audiophile, and pretty much ditto with cars as well.

Maybe this perception of 'superior sound etc' was the reason for the often very high price/performance ratio of the Euro/American product v's the Japanese one, especially in New Zealand where I was living at the time.

When I eventually sold my beautifully built Yamaha amp to buy a locally made one which was essentially a copy of a Radford, whilst it had the better sound, it was not especially well finished, and as an ownership proposition, didn't have the same 'aura' of quality, despite the superior sound.

But I guess my 'closed set' had been formed, and years later, now find myself the very proud owner of a Naim audio system. I'ts special with regards to manufacture, in that it uses a mixture of both automated and handbuilt approach, in that all the components are individually spec' tested, and matched, the case work is all cast alloy, and a great deal of R & D goes into the 'sound' and the engineering required to achieve it. It's not as well 'finished' as say a Yamaha in the glossy anodised finish etc, but it is built like the proverbial 'battleship' from an engineering point of view, and has an very understated elegant look of it's own, so satisfies from an ownership point of view on many levels.

Recently, I started my tentative steps into HT with the addition of a DVD player. Almost 2 years ago after audition, I had decided upon a Sony 7700DVD. My Naim dealer mentioned that there was an Arcam DVD player coming, and to wait, as it would kill everything, etc, in around 6 mnths. 18 mnths later it finally arrived, by which time there was a Sony ES DVD player available as well. After much agonising, and realizing I was having to acutually confront my own 'closed set' Euro bias, went with the Sony. On audition, the Arcam had the edge on CD, but on movie sound, and picture quality, no contest; the vastly superior build quality, overall finish, and the remote control were the icing on the cake.

I guess the point here, is that I had to deal with my own 'learned' biases and prejudices, from my 'formative' hifi years, in the light of reality. With HiFi and HT, the sound quality is the most important issue, but as Chu mentions, there are a whole lot of other factors that come into it; looks, weight, finish etc, when you actually are putting down the money and contemplating 'living' with a product, as against just listening to it.

I don't care really any more where something in the audio world is made, it's more what it sounds like, and the overall perception of quality as regards the engineering and design, components, assembly, finish, and presentation. Having always had black, was adverse to the gold of the Sony ES DVD, but when I unpacked it, well, just fell in love. And the preformance is like wow. So I learnt a lesson here, and for me a big one.

A friend of mine who is an engineer, stated that in the automotive world, with CAD/CAM design, and overall quality control standards, the Germans and the Japanese build the best overall quality cars, and everyone else is pretty much on the same level with each other, but a level down from the German and Japaness product. Interesting view. Here in OZ, one of the major 'home grown' products, is the Holden Commodore - a GM product. I'ts a medium-large car, five seater, 6 or 8 cylinder etc, and very good value as a family car, and well suited to the market for which its designed. One can buy a VW Golf, for around the same money as the 'entry level' Commodore. Many people buy the Golf because of it's perception of quality. (BTW, with a fully galvanised body shell, and build quality re panel gap, alignment etc that even puts a BMW to shame IMHO)

In my work environment, I meet a lot of English and European tourists. They rave about the Commodore, as in the UK in particular, such a large and comfortable car would be out of their reach, and perceive it to be a much better car than a Golf, or equivalent small 4 cyl vehicle such as they'd be running around in back in blighty.

The point I'm trying to make, is that it's very hard to be objective about these things. So much is marketing, image, apparent prestige, or the lack of it, what would ones peers think (I've had friends turn up their noses at the thought of buying say a Sony DVD over the Arcam, or similar Euro product, simply because it's a Sony, costs less, so couldn't possibly be better etc) but I say forget where somethings made, the differences are a lot less than we'd like to think. Engage your heart, and your head, as well as your wallet when buying things, - oh, and of course your ears in the HT department!, and I figure one can't go far wrong.

Anyway, just a few thoughts. Hope the post wasn't to long, but as a 'newbie', thanks for listening.

Cheers,

John.

 

[Chu Gai]

The grass is always greener, my country right or wrong...there's always something out there to appeal to someone. BTW, my first receiver was a Sansui...still works too. Anyone know why Sansui died?

 

[Bill Kane]

Sansui?

They over-relied during the '80s and '90s on pedantic R&D economists and just plain fell behind...

 

[Danny Tse]

Sansui is still around....in Japan, that is. They are still building some serious gear. Check out their Link Removed .

 

[Chu Gai]

Ahhhhhhh...that does bring back memories.
Thanks Danny.

 

[Justin Doring]

"Sansui?
They over-relied during the '80s and '90s on pedantic R&D economists and just plain fell behind..."

 

[John_KM]

Hello All,
Interesting to hear that Sansui are still around in some form or other.
But it's a funny one, this 'closed set business' as I mentioned. Maybe I'm getting a little off topic, but personally I think in most case's I still just would more or less automatically go for English, or American equipment for 'serious' two channel use. I figure the smaller 'enthusiast' run companys usually, but not always, give more credence to the sound, as against more 'commercial' values, albeit sometimes to the 'negative impact' of other considerations like cost, cosmetics etc. So I guess I have some dificulty in escaping my own 'closed set' here.
But I think on the HT side, I'm pretty much heading towards the Japanese built product. Companies like Sony have huge R&D budgets, especially on the digital, and HT/movie side of things, and just seem to be able to market superbly built and finished products, that also perform extremely well at reasonably affordable prices.
The more esoteric, if that's the word to use, Euro, and American AV processors for instance, DO, as far as my ears can tell, offer that 'last word' in sound performance over the more 'mainstream' competition. However, being a music lover first, and a movie lover second (not very far behind though!) I find that the difference in cost with the very 'High End' AV processor over the mainstream does not, for me, make up for what are reasonably small improvements in overall performance, mostly, I feel, because with the visual medium being a part of the overall 'experience' one focuses a lot less on the sound anyway, so a slightly 'lower' quality is not noticed as much as it is with 2ch music.
Maybe I'm wrong, as I'm really only a newbe with HT. But when I see, for eg, a door slam, then the sound of it 'slamming' is simply 'reinforcing' what I'm seeing, whereas, when I can't 'see' a violin for eg, then thngs like it's timbre, are vital to accurately portray the impression that one is hearing, well, a violin, and not some artificially reproduced one. Any thoughts on this - as in what is the more important element in HT, the picture, or the sound??
BTW, I don't own a car (spent all my money on HiFi and other interest like music and photograpny - funny that!) but if I did it would be a Mercedes. Basically my closed set says safety, and overall integrity of design comes close to the top of the list, and a Benz would satisfy me the most. But, at the risk of seeming a bit, well, pedestrian in my tastes by my peers, I could also live very easily with a Holden Monaro coupe with the GM generation 111 5.7 litre V8 thank you very much
Hey, guess what, even though the Monaro is a GM product,designed and manufactured in Australia, it is also going to be sold in the US as the latest Pontiac coupe.
Wonder if it will be any better or worse made than the US one? Some things look so different, whilst remaining the same.
Great to be here,
Thanks to all,
Cheers,
John.

 

[Jim Thompson]

Well,I've never been too concerned with where a product is made,but there does seem to be a perception that a product made in Countries like Malaysia are inferior.In my own experience,this does tend to be the case with some products.These products aren't necessarily audio/HT related.I've experienced the differnece related to HVAC-R controls and components.I certainly wouldn't hold this as a blanket assessment of the quality to be expected from everything produced in these countries.
I ride motorcycles and have all my life,well since around 6-7 anyways.I've always owned Hondas,whether dirt or for street." You meet the nicest people on a Honda"When I pay off my Mini Van,I will be buying a Harley.Why?Not because it is American made(most of it anyway .Although that is a nice patriotic thing.When you ride a Harley there is just this great visceral experience that is not quite achieved on the look alike cruisers.You ride a Honda Shadow ( Honda's long line of "Harley like" bike),you get what you expect from a Honda.Smooth sewing machine like ,silky ride.Great,product,butjust not quite the same.
Every electronic component I own is made over seas I believe,except my Krell amp.The amp is a recently aquired upgrade.When I get around to upgrading my Yamaha 2095 for a pre/pro,it will most likely be an American or Canadian made product.Why?,because there is a difference in the high end of things.I agree with the dimishing return thing,but as with the amps I auditioned,there will most likely be enough difference that it'll be worth it to me.I'm sorry,but you can say it's subjective or in my head.When I checked out a Rotel amp ,a B&K amp,they were nice,but the Krell just simply took my system to a new level.I realize that in retail pricing ,it's hardly a fair comparison,but I ownly gave 2500 for a brand new,albeit close out,$4500 amp.It has made a true believer in me in seperates.The diference where the Krell really shines,and is most noticeable ,is music.
I'd grown tired of listening to music through my last two Yamaha receivers.It just never could draw me in.Too ,maybe brite,plus other utterances.I even had a RX-V1 for a while and wasnot impressed.Nice receiver,BTW,it came to me brand new with a defective left rear chanel .It was slightly more relaxed,but not anywhere near the difference,IMHO,to warrent the price difference,cost to upgrade.I auditioned Denon,Which did lean a little more my way for music.I checked out the other amps I mentioned.When I hooked up the Krell,my ears just melted.It was as if fog had been lifted.I just simply say that what the Krell seems to do that the other products did,regardless of origin,is it just amplifies the source signal with lots of extremely clean power.Not adding it's own flavor to the mix to muddy up the source.It just seems happy to remain anonymous an not draw attention to itself.