Made a new sub!

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by TerryC, Sep 1, 2001.

  1. TerryC

    TerryC Stunt Coordinator

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    I made this for fellow HTF member Lewis Beeze.
    It uses a down firing Adire Tempest Driver and has two side firing Adire PR-15 Passive Radiators.
    Its 5.75FT3, 24.5" square not including the feet and tuned to 17.6Hz. Double wall 3/4"MDF and Flat Black Laminate.
    We did a ground plane measurement outside as well as a couple indoor sweeps.
    Here are the pics:
    [​IMG]
    Thats a 2 liter coke bottle to give an idea of the size.
    [​IMG]
    Here is in the corner of my room.
    Here are the sweeps:
    [​IMG]
    Grey is outdoor 100-18hz sweep.(big dip at 88Hz is crossover setting)
    Red is indoor corner loaded 100-18hz sweep.
    Blue is indoor corner loaded 100-15hz sweep.
    We turned my system to reference level and watched a bunch of DTS trailers Lewis brought over. Titan AE, Haunting, Toy Story 2, U-571 and it handled it all without a hiccup and the whole house shook!
    We measured 118db at 20hz at the listening seat (about 5 to 6 feet away) with this beast and even 113db at 15hz! We used our hearing as the limiting THD factor, once audible distortion set in we tuned it down a notch and took the measurement.
    I'm sure Lewis will chime in later this week when his internet connection is back up and he's had some time to play with it. If it was staying in my room all I'd need to do is tame a couple peaks in the 30-50Hz range, boost the bottom end a couple db and cross it over at 60-70hz or so and I'd have a near perfectly smooth sub that easily attains DD reference levels of 115db. Hopefully his room is just as good to him.
    What do you guys think, I really like the way it turned out!
    Updated to include correct tuning of 17.6Hz.
    [Edited last by TerryC on September 02, 2001 at 11:58 PM]
     
  2. Chuck C

    Chuck C Cinematographer

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  3. Scott Simonian

    Scott Simonian Screenwriter

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    Looks BADASS!!!
    Are you planning on giving the people at the Home Theater Forum the schematics? [​IMG]
    ------------------
    Yes, these are bruises from fighting. Yes, I am comfortable with that. I am enlightened.
     
  4. John Cain

    John Cain Second Unit

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    Can you tell me where you got the connector I can see on the lower left side?? Also the exact model number???
    I want to get ones exactly like that???
    Many thnaks, the Sub looks terrific..
    -- John
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  5. Meaux

    Meaux Stunt Coordinator

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    Let us know the details, sounds like something I'd like to build. Dang thing looks nice!
     
  6. TerryC

    TerryC Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks for the complements!
    Chuck,
    Tempest Driver, $140
    2 PR15-$180($90 each)
    2 Sheets MDF-$40
    2 Sheets Laminate-$96
    Glue, Caulk, Foam Tape, Skews, PR Weight, Binding plate, Feet-$60
    Total=$516
    We needed to use two sheets of MDF and Laminate because of the 24.5" size but if one wanted a more rectangular box you could get away with using 1 sheet of each which would reduce the price by $62.
    John Cain
    It's from parts express: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...=5684&CATID=48
    Meaux and Scott Simonian,
    Details are already posted. Its just a box that has internal volume of 5.75FT3. Outer dimensions of the box is 24.5", and 3/4" MDF glued together to make the walls 1.5" thick.
     
  7. Julian Data

    Julian Data Second Unit

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    Terry,
    Great job! [​IMG]
    ------------------
     
  8. Trevor Schell

    Trevor Schell Supporting Actor

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    Very Nice Terry!
    That should keep Lewis out of trouble for a while. [​IMG]
    ------------------
    Trevor..[​IMG]
    My HomeTheater S.E. Sonically Enhanced
    *Outdated new pictures
    due to recent upgrades!
    **Equipment list current
     
  9. TerryC

    TerryC Stunt Coordinator

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    Again. thanks for the complements!
    Jack,
    We decided on this after doing some serious back to back listening tests against my 4.1Ft3 fb-20hz Ported Mass sub and my other 4.1FT3, FB-19hz Tempest/Dual PR sub. We found the two to be almost undistinguishable while listening to music or movies, both had some clear points when listening to test tones and such but overall they seemed to balance out with the PR design slightly being favored. The fact that the Tempest played louder and could do 20hz with way less noise(talking about port turbulence on the ported Mass, even with the proper port as mine is under ported, there is always port turbulence near tuning) was the clincher. Lewis didn't want the Sonotube look as well so we just made it bigger without it being way too big so he could take advantage of the output/sound larger enclosures offer.
     
  10. Kevin George

    Kevin George Stunt Coordinator

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    Terry,
    long time no talk. how ya been. Im in the process of buying my first house and im thinking about building a new sub. im not sure what i will do with the current sonotube sub, perhaps keep, maybe sell. at this point i do not know. what i do know though is that id like something new that will DEVISTATE, im talking structural damage, ground zero type bass! please get in touch with me soon and let me know what you've been up to as well as how busy you are.
    p.s - Lewis, awesome sub, i'd love to give it a listen when you have time.
    p.s p.s - to check out the sub that terry built for me about a year ago, go here.
    http://www.hometheaterforum.com/bbs/...ent/28628.html
     
  11. John Cain

    John Cain Second Unit

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    Fantastic!! Many thanks Terry..
    OK, now how about the feet?? [​IMG] Where did you get them, are they some sort of spikes or what??
    Take care, and thanks again..
    -- John
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  12. TerryC

    TerryC Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi Kevin,
    New house eh, congrats! What area?
    As per sub options that will devastate, there are a few so we'll need to talk about size and budget. I'm thinking about a new 15" driver that might be promising called the blueprint 1503. Two of those each in its own box(for portability) in ported or PR designs would surely rock! http://www.blueprintdrivers.com/
    They also have a 18" but I've yet to really play with it.
    I wouldn't dismiss this Tempest design either, this is one heck of a killer sub and already tried, tested and proven!!!!! You'll have to go to Lewis to check it out.
    John,
    We used some 4X4" angled wood thats used for fence posts bought at homedepot. Wasn't 100% what Lewis wanted but I loved them and would gladly use them again as I loved the look.
    [Edited last by TerryC on September 03, 2001 at 12:16 AM]
     
  13. Kevin George

    Kevin George Stunt Coordinator

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    terry,
    im looking in cypress, lakewood, and buena park. I checked out the driver and it looks very impressive. i do like the idea of each driver in it's own box, for ease of movement. terry, work has been good to me so budget won't really be an issue. 2 fifteens huh, what about 2 of the eighteens, or even 2 per enclosure, so a total of 4. your the bass master though so you let me know what you think. send me an email if you'd like to talk about it.
    terry, im talking DDDEEEVVVVIIISSTTTAAATTTEEEE!!!!!!!
     
  14. Kyle Richardson

    Kyle Richardson Screenwriter

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    Terry/Lewis, very, very nice sub. I love the way the Tempest sounds so this should be a very nice sub for home theater and music as well. BTW, I second the choice for laminate usage. It's very easy and gives professional looks in no time.
    ------------------AOL Instant Messenger Name: kyler70
    [Edited last by Kyle Richardson on September 03, 2001 at 09:24 PM]
     
  15. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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    Oops,I'm being late from my own party,thanks to ATT Broadband. [​IMG]
    Anyhow,Terry already described the sub and posted pictures,so how it does sounds?
    Bassy! [​IMG]
    But seriously,it does just what I wanted it to do:Extend the bass capabilities if my system,without audible "complaint",and without taking out another mortgage. [​IMG]
    Although my room is nowhere near as "flat" as Terry's,mostly because it's bigger,and shaped differently,but the sub location is much farther from the listener position as well[14'],so it needs more power,and EQ to obtain fairly flat response[16-80hz,+ -5db]at the seats.
    Firstly,I know that the PR design is somewhat of a "looked down upon" design by some,because of the increased group delay.That is true but how much of this audible,and to what degree?Pretty much the same argument as jitter of cd players.It should really come down of personal preferences,and tastes,so let me present mine on this particular sub,and not necessarily,of the design,and it's pros and cons.
    OK for movies,and I mean the big action type blockbusters,this is a real good sub,and more.
    No it isn't the so called one note[boomy] bass,it's pitch definition is very good,this was evident just to listen to test tones,let alone music and soundtracks.
    Most of the time the sub is "invisible"[acoustically],and though never reveals it's location,you feel it's presence,pun intended. [​IMG]
    I of course tried it with many kind of music,and came out as a winner,especially with electric and acoustic basses.
    The only time I wasn't too happy is with the kick drum,though I have a very limited selection of music that features that as predominantly[heavy metal,alternative rock].On my Creed cd[Human Clay],the rhythm and pace was not as good as I expected,compared to my car stereo[which has a quiet a bit of a hump at 40hz or so]not exactly a reference point but had no other source to compare.
    Other then this minor negative,the overall score is high by me,and for the money I think you won't do better.
    BTW the sub is being driven by a Mackie M1200 amp's one channel,as the other devoted to my other sub[Infinity/JL Audio].
    I'm planning to buy an other amp,so I can bridge the Mackie for a full 1200w @4 ohm,which the Tempest sub can use,due to the EQ and room size.
    If you guys have any question fire away!
    Thanks!
    ------------------
    "You Hungarians always disagree"
     
  16. Jack Gilvey

    Jack Gilvey Producer

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    Sounds great, Lewis. Not surprizing, of course, as Terry is utterly incapable of building a bad sub. Transient "music" bass like a kick-drum, where one may have a real-life reference , is where you might notice effects of increased group delay or a little less transient stability, but the "overdamped" PR alignments like yours may be best in that regard. For ht, it would rarely be an issue, if at all. It could also be a room-issue, of course.
    I have become curious about PR use, and this does whet my appetite. [​IMG] I've got to try the laminate , also, just beautiful.
    I do have a question for you. What amp are you using, and is there a subsonic filter present? One attribute I've read about PR's is that they're less apt to unload the driver below the tuning frequency of the sub than vents are, and you don't seem to have a problem with bottoming at all even in the torture tests that Terry mentioned.
    [Edited last by Jack Gilvey on September 12, 2001 at 08:11 AM]
     
  17. Chris Popovich

    Chris Popovich Stunt Coordinator

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    Hey Guys,l how much weight did you add to each passive radiator to achieve the desired tuning? Those subs look great!
    Thanks,
    Chris Popovich
     
  18. TerryC

    TerryC Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi guys,
    I think Lewis is using a Mackie M1200 and I think it does have a subsonic filter like my Mackie M1400 but I don't think Lewis uses it and neither do I. There was no bottoming out in my room and we heard no signs of stress either when watching the DTS trailers. I remember Lewis thinking he did once and we replayed it but it was actually my Paradigm Studio 100's(crossed at 60hz) that made the noise he heard, but maybe they do in Lewis larger room?.
    I agree that PR's are hard to unload, that is one of the big reasons we went with PR's along with zero port noise. IMHO the advantages far out way any sort of slim to almost non existent audible group delay. So far is my favorite design or at least for people that listen at reference levels as it sucks to hear a driver bottom or hear port turbulence when running sweeps with a ported design and sealed needs too much EQ to get nearly flat response.
    We used 758 grams per PR.
     
  19. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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    Jack,
    It's the Mackie M1200 one of it's channel as the other being devoted to another sub.
    I'm planning to buy another as the current amp goes into clipping on some of the bass tracks I like.
    Bridged this amp can put out 1200w which should do for this sub.No subsonic filters being used.
    Chris,
    I don't know the exact weight but it was over 1.5 lb for each PR's.
    We were shooting for 16hz tunning,but Terry forgot to calculate the PR's own weight hence the current 17.6hz tunning point.
    ------------------
    "You Hungarians always disagree"
     

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