Mac Pro Refresh: 2018. New iMacs in 2017 tho! (1 Viewer)

[Thomas Newton]

Dave, there's no doubt that Apple is slacking on the Mac as a whole. They took what was really their coolest and most accessible computer, the Mini, and turned it into a toy. In fact, they did it with the small iMac as well. I still can't comprehend the idea of soldered RAM.

It makes sense on current laptops - where space is at a premium, and soldering in the RAM could conceivably keep it from working its way out of a socket. Not so much on the Mini or the 21.5" iMacs.

Long before any of these were out, Apple soldered in RAM on the first Macintosh. Apple released a number of computers that were not part of the Macintosh line, and so there may be examples of soldered in RAM that predate the first Mac.

 

[JohnRice]

The current Retina iMac displays are DCI-P3 displays … not sRGB ones.

That's good to know. I still prefer to stay with my Dell RGB monitor, but I'm glad to know Apple has expanded the gamut on their iMacs.

 

[Ted Todorov]

Everything in their entire computer line, except maybe one of the MacBooks, is currently long in the tooth. What I find most disappointing is how much they've dumbed down, actually almost crippled, the more base models. The entire Mini line and all but the top 27" iMacs. I'm still dumbfounded that they have gone to soldered RAM on so many computers. I will NOT buy a computer with soldered RAM. No way, no how.
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I miss Steve Jobs. He may have annoyed and baffled people, but he ultimately seemed to know the right moves to make.
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there's no doubt that Apple is slacking on the Mac as a whole. They took what was really their coolest and most accessible computer, the Mini, and turned it into a toy.

Well you've managed to cover both points used by Apple haters new and old: saying that if only Jobs was still here, Apple wouldn't have done X, Y or Z is the newer one, "the Mac is a toy" was the old one, going all the way back to IBM-PC users talking about the graphic user interface and the mouse.

Indeed the perfect example of how wrong this is: the first computer I ever owned, the original (128k) Macintosh had soldered RAM as did the 512K updated version. As far as I know a Mac that did not have soldered RAM didn't exist until after Steve Jobs was fired. And getting back to the present day, to my knowledge all MacBook Pros from the last several years have had soldered RAM. Calling them toys is beyond silly - my 2013 retina display MBP is an absolutely killer great machine for all of my work 4 years later. And the current MBP which is capable of running multiple external 5K displays is darned amazing too.

The Mac Mini does have a problem, but it has nothing to do with soldered RAM: it's not getting upgraded regularly. The idea was you could spend a fortune on a Mac Pro, but keep it for a long time (why I still have/use my 2009 Mac Pro) or you could spend much less for a Mini, but upgrade it regularly. Cutting off the Mini upgrades and freezing on the 2013 Mac Pro which is not easily user upgradable is what has justifiably driven users of Macs other than MacBooks/iMacs crazy.

 

[JohnRice]

I don't understand the need to attack my comments.

30+ years ago Macs had soldered RAM, so there's no problem with it now? I soundly disagree. As far as what Macs had soldered RAM, my first model was the SE/30 I bought in 1990, and it had socketed RAM. I know, because I changed the RAM in it myself. I'm 98% certain the basic Mac at the time (The 6800 model SE) at the same time also had socketed RAM. You just had to disassemble the computer to get to it.

I exaggerated when I said the current Mini has become a toy, but I have managed more Minis than I can recall over the last ten years, since I'm dealing with my own, for my folks as well as work. In my experience, RAM is the most common component to fail, followed by HDs. That's the reason I despise soldered RAM, and I will not change my stance on that.

And I NEVER said "The Mac is a toy". I'm just angry that the Mini has soldered RAM, because for the last ten years I've been a big fan if the Mini, and it does NOT need to be upgraded that often. We still have 2009 core duo Minis here at work, and they're just fine. If you're going to quote me back to me, at least get the quote and what I meant correctly. Have people lost the ability to read? The Mac is the only computer I've ever used

 

[JohnRice]

My nerves seem a little raw today.

 

[Thomas Newton]

As far as I know a Mac that did not have soldered RAM didn't exist until after Steve Jobs was fired.

The MacPlus had socketed RAM. You had to crack the case to get to the sockets, and avoid touching the CRT ("shock hazard") when working on the machine, but they were there. I believe that most desktop Macs from then on had socketed RAM; the ease with which one could get to the sockets varying considerably from machine to machine.

 

[Thomas Newton]

30+ years ago Macs had soldered RAM, so there's no problem with it now?

The issue is that if you base your argument upon an implication that Steve Jobs would never have tolerated soldered-in RAM, that doesn't make much sense. Then you're arguing Steve Job's preferences, rather than the merits of socketed vs. soldered-in RAM.

Jobs was, at first, a big fan of the idea of a computer as a sealed appliance. The first two models of the Macintosh (128K, 512KE) had soldered-in RAM. The Macintosh Plus fixed several of the rough edges of the original machine – by adding RAM sockets, by raising the RAM limit from 128 KB to 4 MB, by providing a real file system (HFS), and by adding SCSI. I'd still say that based upon those first machines, you can't accurately claim Jobs as a staunch opponent of soldered-in RAM.

The only Mac desktops that come to mind as having soldered-in RAM are the Mac 128K, the Mac 512KE, the Late 2014 Mac Mini, and selected 21.5" iMacs. But there are a LOT of Mac models in-between, and I may have missed some. As for portable / laptop models, soldered-in RAM may be a bit more common there.

 

[DaveF]

The iPad was Steve Jobs' vision for the future of personal computing. The iPad is non-serviceable, non-upgradeable.

I don't think we can definitely say that Jobs would have forever opposed that direction for the Mac line, desktops or laptops.

 

[JohnRice]

There are desktop computers. There are notebook computers. There are tablets. They're not the same thing. They are different concepts. I am only and have only ever been talking about desktop computers here.

It's clear that Apple's goal with notebooks is to make them powerful enough to be a main computer, but they want them to be as small and thin as possible. In fact, they are so thin, that socketed RAM is physically impossible. I know this without it having to be explained to me. I thought others might know it as well. MacBooks are what they are conceived to be, and that requires soldered RAM. Like I said, I understand this without it having to be explained to me. There are plenty of Windows notebooks that have socketed RAM. They are also several times the size of MacBooks. I don't use notebook computers. I never mentioned notebook computers.

Who knows what Jobs envisioned for tablets? We'll never really know, but the same factor applies to them, and even more, than with notebooks. They really can't be that small and have user replaceable parts. Of course, in Apple tradition, they also don't accept even tiny flash cards. Typical Apple move.

I'm fairly certain I've never talked about anything but desktop computers here. I believe desktop computers should always have socketed RAM. I'm not buying a desktop computer that has soldered RAM.

Move on.

 

[DaveF]

I agree in that I'd prefer user upgrade able RAM and hard drives. (That's why my HTPC is DIY, for all the problems that brings.)

I just think that the "Steve Jobs never would have ..." arguments are generally off base. Especially so when Jobs was the guy in charge of ushering in computers that embody the design decisions we don't like.

Because they're all computers. And Apple for years, including the Steve Jobs years, have been moving the desktops closer to the laptop style of integrated, non-upgradeable designs.

Ultimately, if the next iMac ... if there ever is a next iMac ... has soldered ram, then I'll max it out at purchase and move on. It will be that, are switch back to a Wintel PC for home desktop use. No other Apple macOS computer fits my needs.

 

[Sam Posten]

Make it 2019.
https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/05/apples-2019-imac-pro-will-be-shaped-by-workflows/