Mac/PC ads: Why doesn't Microsoft refute them?

Chris

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The biggest issue is this:

The Mac has a lot of unique advantages. But in the very high end, the Mac hurt itself badly when it killed of the concept of allowing clones, etc. years ago.

Why do I say this? Because while everyone talks about iLife, iMovie, etc. those are not the power apps.

Need real video editing?

I can grab a Matrox RT.X2 / X100 for the PC. Matrox, Aavid, Pinnacle have been pitching multi-track development tools on the PC high end for years. And it's only in the last six monts that they've been able to put out Mac products.

In the gaming world, it's a no brainer. Because of the larger installed base and greater options for video (find me an SLI box on the Apple side) people are running faster, higher end games on the PC.

What I find amusing and funny is that things like "blogging" tend to feature more robust editable clients available for the PC then the mac. Why? Because there are more users. I subscribe to LiveJournal, and there are tons of different PC clients. There are FAR fewer clients for Mac. (a ratio of about 10:1) the same is true of many other blog friendly sites (BlogSpot). This isn't because anything is wrong with Apple or that it can't blog, it's that with a larger installed base, more shareware authors will put their efforts into something they think will sell.

The greatest issue I have with Apple adds is the current one regarding The Upgrade. I'm unsure where apple thinks they are going with that. I have a stack of older Imacs. What upgrade option do you have with that.. oh, that's right.. you don't. You throw it away and buy another. Try to make an iMac dv400, etc. and "upgrade it". Oh, that's right. You can't change video cards. Can't chose seperate audio, etc.

That's the big perk with a PC.. you can upgrade. You can make big individual choices based around unique purpose. If you want, you can install a multi-track audio card into a PC. Have that option on a MAC? Card doesn't exist and unless you have specific macs, you don't even have slots. Seperate high definition audio decoder? Nope.

Want to put HDTV tuner into your Mac? If you've got one that came with it (and I understand some newer ones will) you can get it. Want more then 1 HDTV tuner? Yeah, good luck.

The Apple commercial makes it look as though upgrading is easy on a Mac, easier then the surgery on a PC. But the reality is: Mac runs tell it dies, and has no real effective 'upgrade' options.

Some of the other Mac commercials make insane arguments.

If I were to make a counter argument, I would have this commercial:

PC & Mac face to face..

Mac: What are you doing?
PC: Oh, I'm playing the latest MS Flight Simulator X, I'm just waiting for my friends to get online so we can play some Half Life 2 Episode 1.
Mac: Oh. Wow, what do they look like?
PC: Well, since I'm using a new 768MB video card, I get full HDTV quality gaming at high frame rates, with new HD audio and Teamspeak options to co-ordinate my play.
Mac: We have some great games too.
PC: Yeah, you just get them a year after we do. And of course, since macs don't have options to add a physics accelerator or to add multi-card teaming configurations, I'll always have better looking graphics, games first, and better audio to boot.
Mac: Ok, well.. Mac will have those games to.
PC: Yep, and when you do, I'll already have the games that replace them.. way to be the last kid on the block

 

Adam Lenhardt

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I'm going to give this one a pass, because the User Access Control really is the devil. I ditched Vista RC2 after a week because I couldn't stand typing in my password every time I accessed my Control Panel (and seemingly everything else outside of the basic surface level shit). If I'd known there was a way to turn it off at the time, I most definitely would have.
 

PeterTHX

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The actual (final) Vista UAC only bugs you when you're installing software & any major user changes...stuff spyware or viruses would do.

So I had it off for when I loaded and configured my PC and turned it on for everyday use after that. No biggie. Of course the stupid ad makes it seem like you need to have it just to instant message someone.

And just what is the point of the movie one? Making a "pretty" movie is up to the user.
 

Ronald Epstein

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Interesting thread.

I'm not here to bash Windows. After all, I have been a faithful
PC user for the past 15 years.

I recently switched to a Mac Pro. It was a tough decision based
on the fact I felt I was venturing into the "unknown." However,
those Hi, I'm a PC - I'm a Mac commercials greatly
influenced my decision. They do work. Additionally, after having
numerous problems with a $4k custom built PC, I pretty much had
to agree with a lot of things those PC/MAC ads touted (though I'll
admit they can be a little over the top).

You can read more of my experiences here

I really love my Mac. It's as simple to use as Windows, but it
seems a hell of a lot more refined with less Vista eye candy. This
is the best computer I ever bought, by far!
 

MarkHastings

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You don't seem to know much about Macs, so I'm afraid this is going to turn into (as it has already) one of those Mac vs. PC debates that I talked about in the other thread. Your ignorance toward Macs gives you a biased view and a lot of your arguments are based in "PC's are better" mentality rather than disputing the real facts. Sure, your PC may work without issues, but the lengths you have to go to get to this point are silly. Avoiding (professional) software installs is the silliiest one of them all.
 

DaveF

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Perhaps I misunderstand, but as Mark says, iMovie reads DV format natively. And with MPEG QuickStream, can easily be fed video from most any other format.

After dabbling with both for a few days and making two personal DVDs, I found iMovie bests WMM on the whole, with a better workflow. And it kills the Windows options, providing a complete DVD creation system via iDVD.

On XP, WMM only exports WMV format, with no path to creating a normal DVD. And until Vista, there was no simple DVD creation tool to finish the process.

I know that there are many DVD editing programs on the PC. I also know that to edit video, and make DVDs, the Mac offered a clear, well-integrated solution. And it only cost $80 to upgrade to the current version.

On Windows -- I've no idea what to get. The marketplace was too confusing for me to bother with. Too many options, too many feature comparisons, too many prices. I don't speak with proud ignorance, but pragmatic ignorance. I want to make DVDs. Apple enables me with the obvious solution. Now I can get on with the task at hand.
 

MarkHastings

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Dave, you are correct with your assumptions. I too had a hard time finding s decent DVD authoring tool. Everytime I'd buy something under $100, it wouldn't do what I needed to, so I ended up getting Adobe Encore.

I will argue that WMV's are GREAT for creating small videos. I choose WMV over QuickTime everytime I need to create an approval video or something for a web site. But as far as WMV goes, they are a stream video and are not really meant for editing.

If I am ever to supply someone with a small video file, that they can re-encode into something else, I always deliver (or recommend) QuickTime. WMV is not much of a forgiving format. It does great for what it's meant to do and in that respect it's better than QuickTime, but overall, for versatility, QuickTime is much better and more solid.
 

Chris

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The thing about the PC market that is very different from the Mac marketplace is that there are thousands of apps vs. a much smaller number. As a result, PC users develop loyalty to hundreds of options.

You mention antivirus, you've got:

Avast
AVG
AntiVir
Alan
Bezo
C-Secure
ESET
EZ Trust
.....
Norton, McAfee, etc.

So I have a few hundred choices. How many choices do we have on the mac?

Roxio on the PC gets a pass because there are hundreds of other apps that do the same thing but better (Nero as an example).

Both PCs & Macs have buggy software... hell, as someone who supports Macs, find me someone who will tell me that Quark 7 was bug free and that you can make it work easily. InDesign?

At recent Mac Expo, the most requested feature for Mac Apps? Less Bugs:

http://quarkvsindesign.com/articles/...uggy-software/

And that's with way fewer applications.

Do HTML editing? I'd take the PC version of Dreamweaver MX over the Mac version, a product that still causes new OS/X dual-processor macs to drag to their knees on using the IDE.

I think there is a misconception that Macs "never" have problems. I wonder what apps those people are using. Adobe has changed it's RIP driver for high end press so often in Mac that most prepress shops keep multiple versions installed just in case to match what their clients send in.

There are lots of things I love about the Mac, but in the end, it has some of the same major faults as anything else.
 

DaveF

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Back to the original topic of Windows countering Mac ads:

As others noted, the Mac ads sometimes give me the ironic feel of: Macs -- no good for normal stuff. They talk about the froo-froo activities (Garage Band, making DVDs) that, really, most people don't do. They assign to the PC the dull activities of charts and documents that, really, is most of what I need on a PC.

A practical concern: is there any personal finance software for the Mac? This is a big deal to me; tracking my budget on the PC with MS Money is critical. From the ads I infer I can't manage my household on the Mac.

This is a Windows advertising opportunity, using Larry the Cable Guy: Windows helps you git 'er done!
 

MarkHastings

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Yeah, I use PC's and I see that as a bad thing. With SO many choices out there, the OS can't begin to accomodate for the major conflicts that arise.

I will admit that competition is good, but on the other hand, the amount of conflicts that I run into, makes me wonder if the benefits of competition are really worth it.

There is absolutely NO excuse for Roxio's app to cause as much chaos as it does. No excuse!

You may be limited on the Mac as far as certain apps (although I would also beg to differ that there are tons of Mac apps) but at that point, you have to ask yourself which is best...is 'choice' worth the amount of conflicts you run into? or is limitations worth stability?

Most PC users find apps that don't cause conflicts, but I don't think you should have to do so. You should be able to install something without fear of it destroying how you system functions.

Actually, it's funny because it has become a standard that conflicts will arise when installing software on PC's - so much so that most people have forgotten how horrible a thing this is - to the point where it doesn't seem like a real issue to them.

Which is why I say it's so hard to debate Macs vs. PC's - I can't begin to start to discuss it if known issues are going to be swept under the rug.
 

MarkHastings

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The Mac ads are clearly geared toward the artistic type of user. I don't think Mac is too concerned with getting involved with personal finance and accounting type of users. Not that you have to be an accountant to use those apps, it's just that Mac is geared more toward the artistic side.

In reality, I would love to create a commercial, basically saying that you need BOTH! I couldn't begin to imagine which system I'd chose over the other. Where one fails, the other succeeds. Claiming that one system can do everything is pretty short sigthed and that's why Apple and Microsoft boast the areas of their strengths.

Apple boasting it's financial application capabilities is just as absurd as Microsoft boasting professional color capabilities.
 

Ted Todorov

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Joy of Tech's take on the commercials.

Real video editing?!? This is an area where Apple is very strong. Final Cut Pro, which has no serious PC rival has taken the industry by storm. Avid (originally a Mac only product) runs on both Macs and PCs.

Where do you get the idea that you can have only one HDTV tuner per Mac?? The Mac forum over at AVS is full of people running multiple EyeTV 500 (HDTV) tuners. I think there is one guy who has six of them.

Ted
 

Chris

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I think though, that's more Roxio's fault then windows.

In regards to video editing: Yes, Final Cut Pro is very impressive. Very impressive, and it's one of the best products that Apple has going.

I deal on a daily basis with three companies that all they do is video production, and let me tell you: you need BOTH a PC and a Mac to get it done. There are some things out there that are just not an option.. there are no cards or support software on a Mac to do.

So, most places have both. And each has it's strength. That's where I think people get bothered with Mac's assertion that "it's the one" .. not always true.

I see Hasting's point. On the other hand, I'm someone who finds iMovie just annoying. I've played with it, I have a Mac in my office, and I find it almost worthless. Then again, I don't care for Windows either. But I can use the right set of tools that I can download tons of to get the exact results I want on the PC.. then again, I'm someone who still loves the command line prompt


But the ability to do it is something I do like about the PC, the access to more options.

In regards to personal finance:

Quicken is available on the Mac and is just as functional as on the PC.
Quickbooks on the Mac is crap. I have no idea, but they removed two features that make the PC version worth owning (CC acceptance & the ability to create price levels and reports on sale through profit.. which is the whole damn reason to own the thing)
 

Adam Lenhardt

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My original problem with the commericals was that they imply an either/or scenerio, when it reality both simply employ different means towards arriving at the same end for 90% of what the average user would be doing.
 

MarkHastings

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Why should I settle for application purchases that conflict with the system to the point that it is inoperable? and I'm not even talking about shareware, we're talking major software companies here.
 

Joseph S

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That's a few hundred more choices than virii available for OS X.
 

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