What's new

Lou Grant listing! (2 Viewers)

Harry-N

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2003
Messages
3,905
Location
Sunny Central Florida
Real Name
Harry N.
Just wanted to agree with the last few posts. It was absolutely wonderful to read here the announcement of Season 5, but then immediately dismaying to see the total dismantling of the thread on figuring out "what's next?"

LOU GRANT is, as mentioned above, a truly great show in spite of the politics. I, too, find that while it does veer into liberal territory, it does so in a fairly balanced manner, never definitively slamming anything in your face, and always keeping the journalism in focus.

The show deserves this one thread as a discussion medium. I suggest that those looking for "what's next" start their own threads for those shows. And I too am awaiting Season 4 in the next couple weeks as I've seen 1-3 on services like Hulu when the show wasn't available on DVD. Now that it is, of course, I've shown my support with purchases through pre-orders, as I'll do with Season 5.
 
Last edited:

FanCollector

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
5,010
Real Name
Lee
Season 5 has been postponed. Shout has not decided on a new release date. They say it is a "production delay," so I hope it isn't any kind of serious issue with the licensing or the elements.
 

Flashgear

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Messages
2,777
Location
Alberta Canada
Real Name
Randall
Thanks, Lee for that info...perhaps Shout has a bit much on their pending release schedule...they have really ramped up their feature films on blu-ray output lately...don't know if that's a factor or not...it's the same question I have about Warner Archive...whether resources going into the ramp up of BD theatrical films diverts funds from prospective classic tv releases...I'm sure we will get season 5 of Lou Grant anyway...
 

Dave Lawrence

Supporting Actor
Joined
Sep 8, 2012
Messages
938
Location
Texas
Real Name
Dave
It's great that this series seems to be on the fast track to completion. Still, it's Shout Factory (and a Fox-owned series), so I won't feel completely confident that the whole series will be released until after I've received (hopefully next year) an Amazon email that says that my order of Season 5 has shipped.

Reading today's posts about the delay of Season 5, I remembered what I wrote back in August of last year. Hopefully this delay is brief. Still, Shout Factory has a track record of shows that stalled out with just 1 remaining season to go. I'm hoping for the best, but until I see my pre-ordered copy show up in my mailbox, I'm going to try to keep my expectations for a positive outcome at a moderate level. I'm just grateful we've gotten Seasons 1 - 4 (so far).
 
Last edited:

Rick Thompson

Screenwriter
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
1,865
If I'm going to not have one season, Season 5 would be the one. I felt the quality dropped off that last season, and the writing became formulaic much of the time. I was sorry when it got canceled, but still felt like the series was running out of gas.
 

Flashgear

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Messages
2,777
Location
Alberta Canada
Real Name
Randall
I've started watching the recently released Lou Grant Season 4...here are the episode running times...

Nightside 49:07
Harassment 49:06
Pack 49:04
Sting 49:02
Goop 48:55
Libel 49:01
Streets 49:06
Catch 46:33 *
Rape 49:06
Boomerang 49:06
Generations 48:34
Search 49:02
Strike 46:20 *
Survival 48:44
Venice 46:33 *
Campesinos 49:03
Business 49:07
Violence 48:59
Depression 49:03
Stroke 46:20 *

So, of the 20 episodes on the set, 4 are definitely transferred from edited "cut" syndication sources (butchered, really, with about 2:10 cut out)..."Catch", "Strike", "Venice" and "Stroke"...2 others MAY have a minor edit, not certain..."Generations" and "Survival"...the 4 cut episodes also do not have the preview intro segment accounting for 30 seconds against their original running times...these are intact on all the other episodes...of the 4 cut syndicated source episodes, "Catch" and "Venice" both look pretty good regardless...the problem, and great disappointment for me, is with the missing 2 minutes plus cut out of these Great and important episodes...but also the washed out and fuzzy sources used for "Strike" and "Stroke" make them FAR WORSE examples...nonetheless they are watchable...it's just that they look terrible by comparison with the PQ of the other episodes...Shout's usual disclaimer is present..."mastered from the best available video sources"...

According to IMDB, Lou Grant had 72 Emmy nominations with 27 wins during it's network run...Interestingly, I noticed that "Strike" and "Stroke" were the most honored episodes of it's 1980-81 season...both with multiple Emmy nominations..."Strike" for directing (Gene Reynolds), writing (April Smith), and editing (James Galloway)..."Stroke" for music composition (Patrick Williams) and Hairstyling (Jean Austin)...both episodes were probably also instrumental in the Lead and Supporting Actor nominations that season...Ed Asner, Linda Kelsey, Mason Adams, Robert Walden and Nancy Marchand were all nominated for Emmy's that year...

"Strike" is one of Lou Grant's best episodes...a real showcase for Ed Asner, Mason Adams and Nancy Marchand as it depicts the complex and conflicting loyalties for management and labor during a paste up and pressroom union strike against the Tribune's management and publisher/owner...

"Stroke" has Mrs. Pynchon suffering a life threatening stroke and painful rehab...probably the main reason Nancy Marchand won yet another much deserved Emmy for her signature career role...

Two other episodes also received specific Emmy nominations that season..."Pack" (for directing by Burt Brinckeroff) and "Rape" (for writing, Seth Freeman)...both of those episodes are complete and look great, thankfully...

"Venice" looks good, but I dread the missing 2 minutes or more that were cut out of one of Daryl (Animal) Anderson's best ever episodes...where he rarely was called upon to carry an episode...a memorably effective and touching story where Animal becomes obsessed with uncovering the back story of a young woman's suicide at Venice beach..."Catch" also looks good...but missing 2 and half minutes in one of Linda Kelsey's best episodes...although she shined in many others that are unedited...

In regards to the 4 butchered episodes...This I wonder...if some Emmy related terrible irony might be a lingering curse?...what if the original and complete source tape transfers were somehow misplaced, misfiled or completely lost during duplication in providing "Screener" video cassette copies for the Emmy voting Academy of Television Arts and Sciences membership during the spring or summer of 1981? Perhaps the video cassette duplication took place in the very same busy MTM editing suites where busy staff were also doing final editing and post production for the upcoming season's episodes? I assume the original and complete 35 mm film sources and OCN' s were always secure and safeguarded...but with video tape transfers in a confused rush going from one format to another, as in 1" or 2" broadcast video transferred to half inch Betamax and VHS home video "screener" cassettes, perhaps this explains WHY for these important Emmy nominated episodes, MTM (and by association, Shout Factory) only has these cut and aged video sources for these 4 episodes...of course, new tape transfers for these 4 episodes could be made from the original film elements...but for Fox, too much for Shout to ask for...Shout Factory have to work with what they are given...my speculation as to why these 4 Emmy considered episodes are from syndicated sources doesn't explain why 2 other Emmy nominated episodes are unaffected and thus complete and nicely presented here..."Pack" and "Rape"...

While "watchable", the butchered, washed out film and abused sources used for "Strike" and "Stroke" are a huge disappointment...and although "Catch" and "Venice" have good PQ, they are maimed also in having 2:30 to 2:40 missing...or just a little over 2 minutes if you don't consider the 30 second preview intro...it might not kill me, but I hate this kind of neglect and lack of respect... as always I am grateful to have what we have here...can't blame Shout Factory at all...

Another unanswered question...is the recently announced delay in releasing Lou Grant Season 5 because of similar problems with the source elements or tape transfers?
 
Last edited:

bmasters9

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Messages
6,450
Real Name
Ben Masters
One thing I'm wondering about these Lou Grant releases: one Amazon review says that, at least on the first release, the episodes are sustaining from one end to the other-- no chapter stops. Can someone who has that first release confirm that?
 

bmasters9

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Messages
6,450
Real Name
Ben Masters
Ben, I have all of the Lou Grant season releases thus far...Shout authored the episodes with 7 chapter stops...just what anyone would hope for...

That's exactly what I wanted to know! The reason I asked is because I have had several releases that were sustaining on their episodes and had no stops whatsoever (Gilligan's Island, Starsky & Hutch [some of the episodes of that were like that], etc.), and as such, I don't know why that Amazon review would say that the Lou Grant releases had no stops.
 

Flashgear

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Messages
2,777
Location
Alberta Canada
Real Name
Randall
Ben , I love it when a TV show is authored to DVD with the appropriate chapter stops...with Lou Grant, for instance, you can go directly to the closing credits (chapter 6/7, or 7/8) to see if a certain guest star you are looking for was in that particular episode...not to mention having those chapter stops properly set at the original commercial breaks, which is also very welcome...too bad that so many releases have irregular, stupidly placed or non existent chapter stops...
 
Last edited:

FanCollector

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
5,010
Real Name
Lee
I've started watching the recently released Lou Grant Season 4...here are the episode running times...

Nightside 49:07
Harassment 49:06
Pack 49:04
Sting 49:02
Goop 48:55
Libel 49:01
Streets 49:06
Catch 46:33 *
Rape 49:06
Boomerang 49:06
Generations 48:34
Search 49:02
Strike 46:20 *
Survival 48:44
Venice 46:33 *
Campesinos 49:03
Business 49:07
Violence 48:59
Depression 49:03
Stroke 46:20 *

So, of the 20 episodes on the set, 4 are definitely transferred from edited "cut" syndication sources (butchered, really, with about 2:10 cut out)..."Catch", "Strike", "Venice" and "Stroke"...2 others MAY have a minor edit, not certain..."Generations" and "Survival"...the 4 cut episodes also do not have the preview intro segment accounting for 30 seconds against their original running times...these are intact on all the other episodes...of the 4 cut syndicated source episodes, "Catch" and "Venice" both look pretty good regardless...the problem, and great disappointment for me, is with the missing 2 minutes plus cut out of these Great and important episodes...but also the washed out and fuzzy sources used for "Strike" and "Stroke" make them FAR WORSE examples...nonetheless they are watchable...it's just that they look terrible by comparison with the PQ of the other episodes...Shout's usual disclaimer is present..."mastered from the best available video sources"...

According to IMDB, Lou Grant had 72 Emmy nominations with 27 wins during it's network run...Interestingly, I noticed that "Strike" and "Stroke" were the most honored episodes of it's 1980-81 season...both with multiple Emmy nominations..."Strike" for directing (Gene Reynolds), writing (April Smith), and editing (James Galloway)..."Stroke" for music composition (Patrick Williams) and Hairstyling (Jean Austin)...both episodes were probably also instrumental in the Lead and Supporting Actor nominations that season...Ed Asner, Linda Kelsey, Mason Adams, Robert Walden and Nancy Marchand were all nominated for Emmy's that year...

"Strike" is one of Lou Grant's best episodes...a real showcase for Ed Asner, Mason Adams and Nancy Marchand as it depicts the complex and conflicting loyalties for management and labor during a paste up and pressroom union strike against the Tribune's management and publisher/owner...

"Stroke" has Mrs. Pynchon suffering a life threatening stroke and painful rehab...probably the main reason Nancy Marchand won yet another much deserved Emmy for her signature career role...

Two other episodes also received specific Emmy nominations that season..."Pack" (for directing by Burt Brinckeroff) and "Rape" (for writing, Seth Freeman)...both of those episodes are complete and look great, thankfully...

"Venice" looks good, but I dread the missing 2 minutes or more that were cut out of one of Daryl (Animal) Anderson's best ever episodes...where he rarely was called upon to carry an episode...a memorably effective and touching story where Animal becomes obsessed with uncovering the back story of a young woman's suicide at Venice beach..."Catch" also looks good...but missing 2 and half minutes in one of Linda Kelsey's best episodes...although she shined in many others that are unedited...

In regards to the 4 butchered episodes...This I wonder...if some Emmy related terrible irony might be a lingering curse?...what if the original and complete source tape transfers were somehow misplaced, misfiled or completely lost during duplication in providing "Screener" video cassette copies for the Emmy voting Academy of Television Arts and Sciences membership during the spring or summer of 1981? Perhaps the video cassette duplication took place in the very same busy MTM editing suites where busy staff were also doing final editing and post production for the upcoming season's episodes? I assume the original and complete 35 mm film sources and OCN' s were always secure and safeguarded...but with video tape transfers in a confused rush going from one format to another, as in 1" or 2" broadcast video transferred to half inch Betamax and VHS home video "screener" cassettes, perhaps this explains WHY for these important Emmy nominated episodes, MTM (and by association, Shout Factory) only has these cut and aged video sources for these 4 episodes...of course, new tape transfers for these 4 episodes could be made from the original film elements...but for Fox, too much for Shout to ask for...Shout Factory have to work with what they are given...my speculation as to why these 4 Emmy considered episodes are from syndicated sources doesn't explain why 2 other Emmy nominated episodes are unaffected and thus complete and nicely presented here..."Pack" and "Rape"...

While "watchable", the butchered, washed out film and abused sources used for "Strike" and "Stroke" are a huge disappointment...and although "Catch" and "Venice" have good PQ, they are maimed also in having 2:30 to 2:40 missing...or just a little over 2 minutes if you don't consider the 30 second preview intro...it might not kill me, but I hate this kind of neglect and lack of respect... as always I am grateful to have what we have here...can't blame Shout Factory at all...

Another unanswered question...is the recently announced delay in releasing Lou Grant Season 5 because of similar problems with the source elements or tape transfers?


That's such an interesting observation about the Emmy-nominated episodes. It does seem too coincidental to be believed. Perhaps those episodes were used for some other purpose also? A syndication sales package or something? Or maybe you're right about the screeners. I agree it's a shame that of all the episodes to be less than pristine, I wish it hadn't been those.
 

The Obsolete Man

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
Messages
3,806
Location
Truth or Consequences, New Mexico
Real Name
Robert
That's such an interesting observation about the Emmy-nominated episodes. It does seem too coincidental to be believed. Perhaps those episodes were used for some other purpose also? A syndication sales package or something? Or maybe you're right about the screeners. I agree it's a shame that of all the episodes to be less than pristine, I wish it hadn't been those.

I'd be more likely to blame mishandling of the MTM library during the Pat Robertson years than blaming Fox.
 

Harry-N

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2003
Messages
3,905
Location
Sunny Central Florida
Real Name
Harry N.
I detect that:

"Catch" - is missing its teaser and is likely sped-up. I hear voices at higher pitch than normal, so probably nothing is missing.
"Strike" - is not so lucky. It plays at normal speed, so it's likely that some minutes were cut - unless it had an incredibly long teaser.
"Venice" - is like "Catch" - the teaser is missing and it's time-sped with higher-pitch voices. Probably all program content is there.
"Stroke" - is like "Strike" - lesser quality print, normal speed, so something is likely cut.

So, all in all, having only two episodes cut, though not desirable, isn't too bad a tragedy. It is however, unfortunate that it had to be two of the allegedly best episodes.
 

Flashgear

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Messages
2,777
Location
Alberta Canada
Real Name
Randall
Harry, you may be right about "Catch" and "Venice" being complete but timesped...at the usual 4% factor on a 49 minute episode, that shortens the run time by about 2 full minutes...with the 30 second preview promo removed, the run time would match 46:30, nearly right on the 46:33 of these two episodes...good news if that's the case, as we would prefer that over outright cuts...still, with the majority of the episodes by far being unaltered, an unpleasant and unexpected anomaly...were the episodes on HULU timesped?

"Strike" and "Stroke" with their inferior syndication sources and being cut by 2 minutes (at 46:20) remains a huge disappointment...and I find the multiple Emmy nominations for these episodes to be a too obvious coincidence, which I attempted to possibly explain...that scenario involving misplaced 1 or 2" tape masters during a home video Emmy "screeners" dupe session is pure speculation on my part...I wonder why the higher quality and complete tape transfers are not included for these 2 episodes with the rest of the season 4 episodes...they really stand out from this set, and not in a good way...at the same time, I don't want any fans to believe they are unacceptable or unwatchable...they're just a real let down, considering these were the most highly acclaimed (by the Emmy's at least) episodes of season 4...I'm only slightly less heartbroken by "Strike", but "Stroke" remains one of the essential Nancy Marchand episodes...for me, she's nearly my favorite thing about Lou Grant..."Catch" is a typically excellent Linda Kelsey episode...although the unaltered "Pack" is an even better sampling of her great work on Lou Grant...I was really perturbed by "Venice" running short...as that is a favorite episode of mine...powerful and memorable...and maybe the best thing that Daryl Anderson was given in the whole series run...a rare showcase for Animal...I would hope it is only timesped...in the absence of any obvious edits...

I continue to wonder if the delay in the forthcoming season 5 release is caused by Shout needing to do their due diligence in establishing that they do indeed have the "best possible sources" before committing them to DVD...
 
Last edited:

GlennC

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Feb 7, 2016
Messages
135
Real Name
Glenn
I have just had a look at the Season 4 and 5 episodes I have and the source of the episodes was an A&E showing some years ago.

All those episodes have a run time of about 46:00.

I haven't bought the DVD of Season 4 yet but of seasons 1 to 3; all the episodes have a run time of 48 or 49 minutes with the exception of:

S02E07 Schools 46:43
S02E19 Home 46:23
S03E02 Expose 46:33
S03E15 Indians 44:42
 

GlennC

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Feb 7, 2016
Messages
135
Real Name
Glenn
Sorry; I just remembered that the running times I listed above exclude the teaser for the episodes.
 

Flashgear

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Messages
2,777
Location
Alberta Canada
Real Name
Randall
Thanks for that info, Glenn and Lawrence...could "Indians" have been both cut and then timesped?...wow, what a compounded insult that would be...but 46:15 timesped would yield a 44:24 approx run time...
 

Harry-N

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2003
Messages
3,905
Location
Sunny Central Florida
Real Name
Harry N.
were the episodes on HULU timesped?

I believe they were. There were some quite inferior prints on the Hulu run I saw when I viewed S1-3 on that service during the year I had it for free. The DVDs have looked much much better for the most part. And the bad-looking episodes had some abrupt cuts in them, indicating they were probably syndication versions.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Latest Articles

Forum statistics

Threads
356,710
Messages
5,121,093
Members
144,146
Latest member
SaladinNagasawa
Recent bookmarks
0
Top