Lost Star Trek 2 footage

Discussion in 'DVD' started by Nelson Au, Jun 7, 2004.

  1. Nelson Au

    Nelson Au Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 1999
    Messages:
    12,943
    Likes Received:
    1,601
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    In case anyone is interested, there is a pretty good article at trekweb.com discussing lost footage from Star Trek II The Wrath of Khan.

    The main footage discussed concerns the Saavik character and her half Romulan heritage. There are scenes filmed but ultimately cut from the theatrical, televised version and now Director's DVD. Nicolas Meyer is quoted as well.

    Other scenes are discussed suggesting more cuts and alternate takes from exchanges between McCoy and Spock, Kirk and Saavik, and Saavik and David Marcus.

    There is a link there to a site to download what I presume is this footage. I have not been able to view it as it is .asf format which my Macintosh doesn't recognize, or I don't know how to make it work on my Mac.

    I hope there won't be complaints that this material wasn't on the DE DVD of Star Trek 2. There were likely very good reasons for it not being there. From permissions not given by the actors to Meyer's decision to exclude them.

    Nelson

    Note- I was able to view the crude footage on a Mac using the Macintosh version of Windows Media Player. Interesting to see the last part with David and Saavik
     
  2. Tarkin The Ewok

    Tarkin The Ewok Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2004
    Messages:
    654
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    They may not have been able to find a way to make that footage fit seamlessly into the movie. Usually, deleted scenes are cut for good or understandable reasons. In this case, the information about Saavik's heritage is in the novelization of the movie. The only thing additional footage might accomplish is to explain why Saavik curses in the first scene.
     
  3. Tony Whalen

    Tony Whalen Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    3,150
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Plus from what I could see here, the footage looks pretty bad.

    I'd always wondered if the half-Romulan thing was something that was shot, or if it was just in the novelization. Kind of cool to see that shot.

    Of course, it's probably better that it was left out. Mostly due to Robin Curtis' portrayal of Saavik. While it's easy to see Kirstie Alley's performance as "half-Romulan", Curtis plays the role as a full Vulcan.
     
  4. DanHaya

    DanHaya Second Unit

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Messages:
    294
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0


    That's true, but if Saavik's half-Romulan heritage had been established in Star Trek II, Curtis would've had to have altered her performance and play the role as such.
     
  5. Nelson Au

    Nelson Au Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 1999
    Messages:
    12,943
    Likes Received:
    1,601
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Before I first saw Star Trek 2, I had read the articles in Starlog and an interview with Kirstie Alley and it did say she was half Romulan, so I always thought of her as such and it explained to me why her eyebrows are not arched. But in Trek 3, they do arch Robin Curtis's eyebrow, so further evidence that they decided to make her full Vulcan.
     
  6. Richard_D_Ramirez

    Richard_D_Ramirez Second Unit

    Joined:
    May 21, 2001
    Messages:
    439
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

    So what is canon about Saavik's heritage? Is she half-Vulcan/half-Romulan, or is she full Vulcan? From what I remember, she was always half/half, based on her mannerism from STII; cursing, tears, etc.
     
  7. Bill Williams

    Bill Williams Screenwriter

    Joined:
    May 28, 2003
    Messages:
    1,699
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    What is canon, based on what has been officially utilized in the films, is that Saavik is a full-blooded Vulcan. Both the Star Trek Encyclopedia and the Star Trek Chronology state Saavik is Vulcan, since both documents were abridged from official (i.e. filmed and released) sources.

    The Star Trek expanded universe canon, specifically the DC Comics series in the 1980's, the Marvel Comics miniseries "Untold Voyages", and two of the Pocket Books novels, explores Saavik's half-Vulcan/half-Romulan heritage.

    The fact that the scene of dialog exists specifically mentioning her half-Romulan heritage, that it was acknowledged in publicity materials and in this brief lost scene, yet it was never included in the theatrical version, the extended TV version, or even the Director's Edition DVD, would seem to suggest that this would be an apocryphal footnote to Saavik's background. At least that's the way I view it.
     
  8. Mike_G

    Mike_G Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2000
    Messages:
    1,477
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Real Name:
    Mike
    You know, I'm a complete ST II nut, but I don't remember one line of dialog stating she was a FULL Vulcan. That's just assumed from the pointed ears, no?

    That said, back in "the day" of big movie premiers, theaters used to sell programs, and I'm pretty damn sure Saavik's "bio" had her listd as half-vulcan in it. I have one somewhere around here, I'll have to dig it up.

    Mike
     
  9. Sam Favate

    Sam Favate Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    6,696
    Likes Received:
    1,422
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Real Name:
    Sam Favate
    Savvik's backstory, as I recall, is that she is half Vulcan/Half Romulan. It was cut from STII to avoid confusion. Speculation is that she is the daughter of Spock and the Romulan commander from The Enterprise Incident.

    There was a segment cut from The Voyage Home that she stayed on Vulcan because she was pregnant, with Spock's child - from their encounter in The Search for Spock.
     
  10. Brian Kidd

    Brian Kidd Screenwriter
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2000
    Messages:
    1,939
    Likes Received:
    250
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Wait a minute...

    Spocks daughter who is later impregnated by him?!? AAAAAAAAAIIIGGGHHHH!!!!!!
     
  11. Tony Whalen

    Tony Whalen Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    3,150
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0


    Gah! [​IMG] And you thought that Luke/Leia kiss was bad!

    I *had* heard the theory of Saavik staying on Vulcan due to...er..fulfilling Spocks "pon-far" needs...but I've never known if that was a fan-theory, or something that was dropped from the script/story.
     
  12. Brennan Hill

    Brennan Hill Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 1998
    Messages:
    187
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    This is the first I've ever heard that she is full vulcan, I vividly remember the pre-release articles and whatnot stating that she was half romulan. I've never read any of the novelizations or comic books. I never knew there was a debate. Funny. Why did they decide to make her a full Vulcan?
     
  13. Tony Whalen

    Tony Whalen Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    3,150
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I don't think they MADE her a full Vulcan, so much as did NOT state that she isn't.
     
  14. Jeff Jacobson

    Jeff Jacobson Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2001
    Messages:
    2,116
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0


    I think this was even mentioned in the ST4 commentary track.
     
  15. Bill Williams

    Bill Williams Screenwriter

    Joined:
    May 28, 2003
    Messages:
    1,699
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The comics adaptation of ST IV has some additional dialog between Kirk and Saavik where he asks her about her decision to stay on Vulcan. He asked about her "condition", and she said that she was fine. Makes me wonder if Saavik really was pregnant with Spock's child...
     
  16. MarkBourne

    MarkBourne Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2001
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

    That's true. In the commentary, Nimoy posits that the answer to the question "do they 'do it'?" is an uncommitting yes, and that Saavik ultimately stays on Vulcan quite probably because she's carrying Spock's child. He doesn't absolutely nail it down, but (as I recall) he sure sounds like that's his personal version of events.

    Re the half-Romulan backstory: I've always liked the notion, but wouldn't that make Saavik unbelievably young? The movie tells us outright that the events of "Space Seed" happened 15 years prior. The events of "Balance of Terror" (which still don't anticipate any actual physical meetings between Romulans and Vulcans, or anyone else) were also in a Season 1 ep, therefore close to "Space Seed" in the Trek calendar. So even if somehow a Romulan and a Vulcan managed to meet, conceive, and bring to term the child Saavik, she'd be, oh, 14 years old in TWOK.* I'd like to think that that's why they scrapped that bit of story, but that would give the production team too much credit for seriously anal-retentive continuity geekery.**

    (* Writing it off as "Romulans mature faster" is a cheap gimmick, though well within the cheap-gimmick spectrum of ST, as evidence by Worf's multiple-cheap-gimmicks son who sprouted before our eyes in TNG.)

    (** Such as the fact that I know this stuff at all. Like your first kiss, one's early Trekker days are never forgotten.)
     
  17. Dan Rudolph

    Dan Rudolph Producer

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    4,042
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

    It wouldn't work in this case anyway as they'd aleady established that Vulcans mature slower than humans.
     

Share This Page