Lost: Season Six

TravisR

Studio Mogul
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
Messages
34,982
Location
The basement of the FBI building
Originally Posted by Jari



Michael was trapped as a whisper because of his actions (killing the innocent Ana-Lucia and Libby in S2). Sayid, Sun and Jin didn't have the same 'sins' as Michael. I'm not sure where you are in the series so I don't want to say anymore than that.


I know I'm wasting my time saying this because people who are still saying that there'd be a scientific explanation or that they made it all up as they went along aren't going to stop thinking that. Anyways, I'm very familiar with the show and there are pieces laid out sometimes years in advance so they had some idea of where they were going. Which makes more sense, that they knew the basic answers to the mysteries that they introduced and how it worked with what came before or that they chose to make it up as they went so it would be much harder to pull it all together and answer? Why would they make it harder on themselves especially once they had a date to end the show and knew how long they had to keep the story going? And I still have never seen a quote from any writer on the show say that there would be a scientific explanation (probably because it's obvious that there is no scientific explantion for a magic time-skipping island).
 

Josh Dial

Cinematographer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2000
Messages
3,507
Real Name
Josh Dial
Oh, are we doing LOST discussions again? :)


A few things:


- The ending was indeed polarizing, but I don't think it's fair to say that "many fans" felts "ripped off" by the ending.


- It is definitely a misstatement to say that there were quite a few things that went unanswered--even a remotely-close understanding of the show reveals this to be false. The HTF discussions were legion, but suffice to say that if you dig through the entire 6 seasons' worth of threads, the number of lingering questions can be counted on one hand.


- Saying that there was NO roadmap is also wrong. While it's true that much of the "meat" of the midle seasons was not specifically-planned, Cuse and Lindelof were still working from basic framework for the most part. After the end date was set (circa season 3), the events became much more planned. Abrams, though he very little to do with the show beyond the initial offerings (it was very much Cuse and Lindelof's baby) claims he had the final scene of the show planned out from the beginning, and much of the "this is end we are shooting for" likewise envisioned. Obviously, one can either believe or disbelieve an artist when he says something like this, but I for one am inclined to believe him.


- The showrunners/writers never said everything could be explained by science. This is either a misquote or a non-quote that has no basis. The fact that faith has been a central theme to the show since the first season is proof enough.
 

TravisR

Studio Mogul
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
Messages
34,982
Location
The basement of the FBI building
Originally Posted by Josh Dial

- It is definitely a misstatement to say that there were quite a few things that went unanswered--even a remotely-close understanding of the show reveals this to be false. The HTF discussions were legion, but suffice to say that if you dig through the entire 6 seasons' worth of threads, the number of lingering questions can be counted on one hand.


Exactly. I'm not saying that everyone has to be a dork like me and know the show inside and out but at the same time, it's not the show's fault that people can't remember or can't connect the pieces themselves.
 

Ronald Epstein

Founder
Owner
Joined
Jul 3, 1997
Messages
55,842
Real Name
Ronald Epstein
The showrunners/writers never said everything could be explained by science. This is either a misquote or a non-quote that has no basis.

Disagree.


Early on, the writers thwarted plot rumors by coming out

and saying that the show would have a scientific explanation.


I am not the only person remembering this.


As years went on, you are correct in saying that path was lost

with the time travel story.


It is definitely a misstatement to say that there were quite a few things that went unanswered


There are webpages devoted to unanswered LOST questions.


Because the show took a certain path in the 6th season the

answering of those questions were open to multiple interpretations.


The fact that there are websites devoted to explaining certain
factions of the storyline to confused viewers goes to show that
not everything was clearly spelled out for viewers. If you got it

all, congrats. However, I would say most people today still have

lingering questions about things they felt went unanswered.


I think it's rather unfortunate that there is this definitive split in

the fanbase. Those that are confused by the events get criticized

by others who feel they are dummies for not being able to connect

the dots.
 

David Deeb

Screenwriter
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
1,033
Real Name
David
Originally Posted by Sam Favate

I've been watching season six lately on BD, and I think it's not a good fit with the prior five seasons. I don't know the answer to the above question, but I will place this in spoiler space for the benefit of those who haven't seen it.




The show seems to keep coming out of left field in an effort to surprise the audience, but doing so as often as they do ends up making little sense. And as we know from the end of the series, the sideways timeline is never really explained in relation to the fifth season and what came before, nor is the effect of the detonation of the bomb at the end of season five. Much of what happens to the characters seems random, and there is little attempt to explain events. Also, another problem I have with season six is that it's mean - and I don't mean unpleasant for the characters, I mean sadistic. It's been unpleasant to watch. Rather than having a mystery unravel, it became a constant guessing game with the writers trying to keep the audience off balance. Season six should have been the payoff for years of attention to the show - and maybe for many, it was - but I don't feel like it lived up to the storytelling of the previous years.
Sam, I feel the same way. You did a good job of summing this up.
I loved watching Lost for 5 + years....but the final season and the final episodes and the payoff.....well, it was not satisfactory. So much so, that I realize I can never go through all of that again. I sold my season sets (some on Blu-ray). I enjoyed re-watching episodes up until the final season. After seeing that, I realized it would be a chore to go through that again. Sold em. Gone.

I guess I still hold enough fondness for the show to wander back in this thread since it had been recently "bumped". Hoping to read something that would make me enjoy that finale better, but alas, I suppose that's not to be.
 

TravisR

Studio Mogul
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
Messages
34,982
Location
The basement of the FBI building
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein



The showrunners/writers never said everything could be explained by science. This is either a misquote or a non-quote that has no basis.


Disagree.


Early on, the writers thwarted plot rumors by coming out

and saying that the show would have a scientific explanation.


I am not the only person remembering this.


As years went on, you are correct in saying that path was lost

with the time travel story.




It is definitely a misstatement to say that there were quite a few things that went unanswered


There are webpages devoted to unanswered LOST questions.


Because the show took a certain path in the 6th season the

answering of those questions were open to multiple interpretations.


The fact that there are websites devoted to explaining certain
factions of the storyline to confused viewers goes to show that
not everything was clearly spelled out for viewers. If you got it

all, congrats. However, I would say most people today still have

lingering questions about things they felt went unanswered.

The writer in the link that you provide also acknowledges that he has no direct quote of the writers saying that there would be a scientific explantion so I think it's just internet urban legend (it's been said so much that it's become true). Just looking at the first few episodes, there's a monster, Jack sees his dead father (whose body has also dissapeared) and Locke regains the ability to walk again so even before island time skipping and the Dharma Initiative, science seems to be out the window.


Ron, what questions do you feel weren't answered by the show? I'm not trying to be a jerk and like I said earlier, not everyone has the time or desire to be a super-nerd about the show but I imagine that alot of questions that people may still have are due to not remembering information or not making connections rather than the show not providing the information.
 

Ronald Epstein

Founder
Owner
Joined
Jul 3, 1997
Messages
55,842
Real Name
Ronald Epstein
Travis,


I know you aren't trying to be a jerk. You are

an excellent member here and I always enjoy

conversing with you.


It has been nearly a year since LOST ended.


Haven't thought about it in months. So, off the top

of my head, I couldn't tell you the questions I had
the moment the show ended. What I remember

doing was resigning myself to read the explanations

posted by multiple websites for many of us that just

didn't get all of it.


And I clearly remember the writers making a statement

about wanting to keep the show within scientific explanation,

but nobody copies these quotes and stores them away
for the day someone takes them to task on it so sorry, I

don't have a direct quote to give you. I can only conjure

up the same memory that is being shared by the website

that is referenced.


This conversation from the writers I am about to quote

does not fully support either our opinions but it does

provide some middle ground, I think:



[COLOR= rgb(178, 34, 34)]How important is for you that science is right?[/COLOR]


[COLOR= rgb(178, 34, 34)]Carlton Cuse: The science needs to be well enough to create a sense of credibility in the story is being told.[/COLOR]


[COLOR= rgb(178, 34, 34)]Damon Lindelof: We use the rule of Jurassic Park, that is, if you can convince me that a mosquito can bite a [/COLOR][COLOR= rgb(178, 34, 34)]dinosaur[/COLOR][COLOR= rgb(178, 34, 34)] and be preserved in [/COLOR][COLOR= rgb(178, 34, 34)]amber[/COLOR][COLOR= rgb(178, 34, 34)] and the DNA will not degrade all the time, so I can show dinosaurs cloned and not call it a film of [/COLOR][COLOR= rgb(178, 34, 34)]science[/COLOR][COLOR= rgb(178, 34, 34)] fiction. And, you know, we try to do the same with the show. If something is highly unlikely to happen, we try to offer some basis in the physical world we see as an effort to explain, except that they are things that have no scientific explanation, which is when the show begins to go its own own territory.[/COLOR]

[COLOR= rgb(178, 34, 34)]Carlton Cuse: But we are always trying to skirt that line between the two possibilities of explanation, scientific or mystical, magical, we purposely ambiguous about what would be right. Obviously, certain things fall into the category of science and others in the mystical category, and that depends on what kind of story we're telling that week.[/COLOR]

The entire dialogue can be found here.
 

Mikah Cerucco

Effects Supervisor
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 27, 1998
Messages
2,457
I'm in a 3rd camp. Our motto is, "Everything wasn't explained, but who needs that?" I left Lost thinking it is freaking brilliant, and everything from the final episode of the penultimate season through the finale was just a whirlwind of rewarding revelations. And I am not a lost nerd.


BTW, I'm all for an inclination to believe perceived statements ("Everything has a scientific explanation"), but there comes a point where I have at least some cynicism regarding total acceptance. Watching a man in a wheelchair suddenly get up and walk, and a woman with cancer suddenly not have cancer, and a dead man talking to his son (and much more)... well, let's just say even if the statement were made, I'd have to adopt the, "I'll believe it when I see it," approach. And it isn't like time travel happened for the first time in the last season. We had Faradays and Desmond hopping all over the place. And more. Under the best of circumstances, people disappointed with the "faith" explanation wanted science fiction, not science.
 

TravisR

Studio Mogul
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
Messages
34,982
Location
The basement of the FBI building
Ron, to me, that quote basically reads as them saying that use science as a base (magnets used to help paralyzed people or the physics of time travel) and then they go their own fantastic way but I think people have inadevrtantly taken quotes out of context or misinterpreted them (especially Cuse saying "The science needs to be well enough to create a sense of credibility in the story is being told. ") and that's why people think that they said that there would be a scientific explation when they didn't.
 

Ronald Epstein

Founder
Owner
Joined
Jul 3, 1997
Messages
55,842
Real Name
Ronald Epstein
Travis,


I suppose you and I are going to have to agree to disagree.


Believe me, I loved LOST and I plan to watch it again in a few

years when it will be fresh to me again.


However, the single biggest problem I think a majority of the

fanbase had with that show is that it took the cheap way out.


I don't mind watching a well crafted 2-hour film whose ending

is left up to multiple interpretations. Sometimes it can be

rather fun to wonder what the writers meant.


However, for fans who invested 6 years in LOST and in the

last season were bombarded with promos that said "All
questions would be answered next week," were ultimately

let down.


The biggest mistake the show made was going with faith.

To me, that's the writers saying "we have a lot of questions

we can't fully answer so let's have the viewers answer it
themselves."

It takes a dozen websites to have to spell out answers
that we were promised by the show's promoters?


No two fans are going to fully agree about whether they

were satisfied with the show's ending. So, again, we are

in a situation where we are just going to have to respectfully

disagree with each other on our feelings about it.
 

TravisR

Studio Mogul
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
Messages
34,982
Location
The basement of the FBI building
Originally Posted by Mikah Cerucco

I'm in a 3rd camp. Our motto is, "Everything wasn't explained, but who needs that?"


That's how I feel about questions like how does the source (the heart of the island/the light) work or who was on the island before Jacob and the Man In Black's Mother got there. I know I've seen Lindelof compare those type of questions to the midi-chlorians in The Phantom Menace where some things (like The Force or the island) are better off with "It's magic" rather than a scientific explantion and some things (like who was on the island pre-Mother) just aren't important to the story.
 

Walter Kittel

Lead Actor
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Dec 28, 1998
Messages
7,267
[COLOR= rgb(24, 24, 24)] [/COLOR]

[COLOR= rgb(24, 24, 24)]However, for fans who invested 6 years in LOST and in the[/COLOR]

[COLOR= rgb(24, 24, 24)]last season were bombarded with promos that said "All [/COLOR]

[COLOR= rgb(24, 24, 24)]questions would be answered next week," were ultimately[/COLOR]

[COLOR= rgb(24, 24, 24)]let down.[/COLOR]

[COLOR= rgb(24, 24, 24)] [/COLOR]

[COLOR= rgb(24, 24, 24)]The biggest mistake the show made was going with faith.[/COLOR]

[COLOR= rgb(24, 24, 24)]To me, that's the writers saying "we have a lot of questions[/COLOR]

[COLOR= rgb(24, 24, 24)]we can't fully answer so let's have the viewers answer it [/COLOR]

[COLOR= rgb(24, 24, 24)]themselves." [/COLOR]

[COLOR= rgb(24, 24, 24)] [/COLOR]

I simply could not agree more. I loved most of the final season, but I felt so let down by the final episode. For the producers to tell everyone in season one that the Island was not purgatory (and its implicit message that there was at least some reality based explanation for many of the events depicted ) and then to end the series in that manner felt so dishonest. (They aren't dead. Ooops! Now they are. Gotcha!) I was extremely let down.


Like Ron said, neither "side" is going to convince the other - so I will agree to disagree with some fans.


- Walter.
 

NeilO

Cinematographer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2002
Messages
3,748
Originally Posted by Walter Kittel




[COLOR= rgb(24, 24, 24)] [/COLOR]

[COLOR= rgb(24, 24, 24)]However, for fans who invested 6 years in LOST and in the[/COLOR]

[COLOR= rgb(24, 24, 24)]last season were bombarded with promos that said "All [/COLOR]

[COLOR= rgb(24, 24, 24)]questions would be answered next week," were ultimately[/COLOR]

[COLOR= rgb(24, 24, 24)]let down.[/COLOR]

[COLOR= rgb(24, 24, 24)] [/COLOR]

[COLOR= rgb(24, 24, 24)]The biggest mistake the show made was going with faith.[/COLOR]

[COLOR= rgb(24, 24, 24)]To me, that's the writers saying "we have a lot of questions[/COLOR]

[COLOR= rgb(24, 24, 24)]we can't fully answer so let's have the viewers answer it [/COLOR]

[COLOR= rgb(24, 24, 24)]themselves." [/COLOR]

[COLOR= rgb(24, 24, 24)] [/COLOR]

I simply could not agree more. I loved most of the final season, but I felt so let down by the final episode. For the producers to tell everyone in season one that the Island was not purgatory (and its implicit message that there was at least some reality based explanation for many of the events depicted ) and then to end the series in that manner felt so dishonest. (They aren't dead. Ooops! Now they are. Gotcha!) I was extremely let down.


Like Ron said, neither "side" is going to convince the other - so I will agree to disagree with some fans.


- Walter.

Hold on ... the Island really was not purgatory. It is just the sideways flashes that were explained as some kind of limbo/purgatory. I would have enjoyed the final episode a lot more if the final 15 minutes or so of the episode explained that the sideways flashes were a parallel reality created by the bomb in the previous season finale that had some kind of link to the primary reality we had been following. I still enjoyed the series as a whole and plan to watch it all again sometime.
 

Walter Kittel

Lead Actor
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Dec 28, 1998
Messages
7,267
Yes, I realize that the two realities are separate and that the Island was not purgatory.


The point was that the rejection of purgatory in season one was just one of many statements that emphasized the "reality based" approach to the series taken by the producers which was subsequently tossed aside in the final episode.


- Walter.
 

TonyD

Who do we think I am?
Premium
Joined
Dec 1, 1999
Messages
20,409
Location
Gulf Coast
Real Name
Tony D.
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein

Sam,


All I can tell you is that many fans felt ripped off by
the end of the show.


There were quite a few things that went unanswered

(one of which was addressed in the Season 6 supplements).


The biggest argument against the show is that it took the "cheap" way out by going with a faith-based answer rather than something scientific that would have given concrete support to many of the events that happened over the years.

Also, realize, when the writers started this show 6 years earlier they had no idea it would last so long. There was no roadmap as to where the show would go. Most of it was made up along the way -- many of it filler -- and then somehow they had to address it all in the final season.
I'm surprised anyone still believes that.


Seems almost impossible for a show as layered as this one was.


I loved every episode of Lost.

This was the first show I've seen since St. Elsewhere that I watched every week
and when it was was over could not wait the week to watch the next show.
I never felt cheated or disappointed by anything that I saw or didn't see.

Lost was a blast to watch, I loved going online and chatting with people
here and on other sites about the show during and after each episode.

I also loved going to the fansites to see if anyone had
any theories on what was going to happen next.

The finale was one of my 4 or 5 favorite endings to any show I've ever seen. Loved it.

There was never anything that led me to believe that the show
was never planned and the show runners were
just doing ep to ep by the seat of their pants.



Also I didn't feel any "oops they're dead" thing at all. It was simply that well eventually they died just like anyone else does.

Anyway this has all been hashed before, I'll let you guys rehash it at this point.
 

Sam Favate

Lead Actor
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Messages
9,301
Real Name
Sam Favate
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein

The biggest mistake the show made was going with faith.

To me, that's the writers saying "we have a lot of questions

we can't fully answer so let's have the viewers answer it
themselves."

Amen. (No pun intended.) And that should apply to the writers of every serialized show (or movie franchise). The X-Files fell to a similar sin when it simply presented the supernatural without scientific explanation, thus changing the very nature of the show in its last few years. BSG - while a more satisfactory finale than either Lost or X-Files - also used "faith" to explain things where they'd written themselves into a corner.


Ron, I watched season six when it aired, so you're not going to spoil anything for me. I also buy the BDs and I recently started watching the season six set, which is what prompted me to say I feel a sense of disappointment in it. Perhaps it has taken this second viewing for me to appreciate how many red herrings were thrown out there in season six, and how little things like the sideways timeline have to do with everything that has gone before on the series. Also, in the "main" (or island) timeline, things happen that make us scratch our heads and are never explained. Take the story of Sayid, for one. He is barely alive, the temple folks kill him, he comes back to life, the temple folks want to kill him again, he then works with the temple folks and follows their instructions to try to kill Locke, only to join Locke, only to escape with the other survivors and sacrifice himself on the sub to help them. WTF? Where did this "growing darkness" in him come from? How was he corrupted the way Claire was? None of it is ever explained - at least not explicitly, and goddamn it, it should be - and I have to suspect it was all just introduced to keep the audience guessing. "What twists can we make this week?" the writers probably asked themselves. Sayid is but one example; there are plenty of others.

I thought Lost was a brilliant show; it's first five years are outstanding. But its final year disappoints.
 

Jari

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Nov 13, 2002
Messages
95
Thanks TravisR!


I've been watching the last two seasons and just watched The End couple days ago. So much stuff happening and I guess my brain just overloaded of all the information... but I definately loved the whole series and the finale was the high point for me. Personally I think the writers made the right decision to not reveal and explain everything. I love when something is left for the viewer to dwell on and make their own minds, afterall I enjoy more artsy films and David Lynch's stuff. But I can certainly understand why some people could be disappointed by the ending.
 

TravisR

Studio Mogul
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
Messages
34,982
Location
The basement of the FBI building
Originally Posted by Sam Favate

Take the story of Sayid, for one. He is barely alive, the temple folks kill him, he comes back to life, the temple folks want to kill him again, he then works with the temple folks and follows their instructions to try to kill Locke, only to join Locke, only to escape with the other survivors and sacrifice himself on the sub to help them. WTF? Where did this "growing darkness" in him come from? How was he corrupted the way Claire was? None of it is ever explained - at least not explicitly, and goddamn it, it should be - and I have to suspect it was all just introduced to keep the audience guessing. "What twists can we make this week?" the writers probably asked themselves. Sayid is but one example; there are plenty of others.


The darkness in Sayid came from his being submerged in the clouded springs of The Temple (the springs were polluted due to Jacob's death). As you said, it was a growing darkness (not an instant darkness) so he became more 'evil' and emotionally disconnected as the darkness progressed. When it really counted though, the real Sayid came back and he beat out the darkness and sacrificed his life to save everyone else on the sub. I don't think any of that is too big of a leap based on what's presented in the show.
 

Josh Dial

Cinematographer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2000
Messages
3,507
Real Name
Josh Dial
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein



Disagree.


Early on, the writers thwarted plot rumors by coming out

and saying that the show would have a scientific explanation.

No, they most certainly did not. Nobody ever said that everything would be explained by science. Everyone who writes/says/thinks otherwise is either mis-qouting or mis-remembering, hence my comment.


What they DID say is that the science in the show has to be "real" in that it isn't *completely* speculative; they push the boundaries in this regard, but at no point were they just "making up the science" behind anything. Any blurring that occured within the show was between science and faith (it can't get any more plain than naming a episode after this divide), and was done on purpose.


Regarding lingering questions, I still maintain the position I've held since the finale aired: outside of maybe a handful (1-3) of major questions, the only lingering questions the show left unanswered are the questions humanity itself struggles with on a daily basis.
 

Forum Sponsors

Forum statistics

Threads
344,080
Messages
4,699,545
Members
141,164
Latest member
Ree