1. Sign-up to become a member, and most of the ads you see will disappear. It only takes 30 seconds to sign up, so join the discussion today!
    Dismiss Notice

Lost: Season Six

Discussion in 'TV Shows' started by TravisR, Nov 19, 2009.

  1. Cory S.

    Cory S. Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2004
    Messages:
    996
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    610
    I honestly can't wait for the series set so I can get a few things straight about The Others, Dharma, and Whitmore.


    For the life of me, I can remember Season One through Three but Seasons Four and Five are just a blur and I think that's where I'm having some slight trouble with the mythology.


    I'm willing to bet that a lot the questions I have were really answered and some didn't take those answers, if provided, at face value...at the time.
     
  2. Dave Mack

    Dave Mack Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2002
    Messages:
    4,668
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    0

    well, yeah.... ;)
     
  3. Steve Y

    Steve Y Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 1, 2000
    Messages:
    807
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    610
    A few people are misinterpreting the credit sequence (not just here but in various blogs). I'm all up for interpreting events on the show differently, but this point is not even up for debate IMO. If you've been listening at all to the weekly podcast done by the show's creators, you'd know that they'd never have created an ending that basically says, "they were dead the whole time". They would reject the hypothesis as not only HIGHLY unlikely (which has been pointed out here with numerous reasons), but offensive to the entire thesis of the show, which is basically "real life matters, free will matters, choices matter".


    Someone else (don't remember who) brought up the idea that Hurley might have made it possible for the survivors' souls to concoct their own (apparently non-denominational!) purgatory, or at least life with a specific set of "awakening" rules inside of it. When he's in the car and talking to Sayid (before Sayid breaks up the fight), he mentions not being able to tell him what's happening because it's "against the rules". Maybe this is one of Hurley's "new" rules? Can't say I agree strongly with this interpretation, especially since this world is populated by a ton of people, and they're either fake or Hurley is a supreme deity... but it's still fun to think about.


    Since Locke didn't bring his fiance with him to the church, that made me think maybe the Island-related people were the only "real" inhabitants of this place.


    I'll admit I'm still struggling with all these purgatorial notions. But what intrigued me most was that time had no meaning there. Whether you die immediately after the island is saved, or sixty years down the road, you all end up in the same orbit, in the same proximity, with the exact same 'sensation' of time and memory. For that reason, Juliet (as she dies) has a flash of the entire purgatory, which has no real beginning/middle/end per se. When she said "it worked", dying in Sawyer's arms, she was getting a glimpse of that moment in the hospital, referring to the vending machine.


    As for Sayid and Shannon, I'm sure they were looking for any opportunity to have Maggie Grace back on the show, though (non-pragmatically) it sort of makes sense too that the ultimate romantic destination of his (after)life would be tied into the most important event of his real life, namely the crash of Oceanic 815. And since she died in his arms, it really makes sense that SHE would be there with him, waiting to be awakened.


    And honestly, I try not to get too tangled the logistics of this purgatory (or whatever it is) any more than I got tangled in the logistics of the island mythology, which after a while just didn't matter that much to me. That's just not the kind of show they were making.
     
  4. Dave Mack

    Dave Mack Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2002
    Messages:
    4,668
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    0
    agreed. after all is said and done it's about the people themselves and their choices. :)
     
  5. Holadem

    Holadem Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2000
    Messages:
    8,967
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    "That just ends the debate imho."


    In general, I find that arguments in the form of "X is a not real/is a dream/afterlife/whatever" can be supported by anything. So anyone who believes that the Island was a form of afterlife will find plenty of support for it, especially in a show like LOST. I think it's completely wrong, but I don't expect that debate to be over any time soon.


    I said last night that the ending was deliberately obtuse. I take that back, as I probably didn't fully get it then. I now think the opposite. Although I didn't immediately get it, now that I do, I don't believe it was intended to be ambiguous at all.


    --

    H
     
  6. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Founder
    Owner

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 1997
    Messages:
    54,986
    Likes Received:
    10,643
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Real Name:
    Ronald Epstein
    Was a little upset that the highly touted 3
    alternate endings which were to be revealed

    on Jimmy Kimmel consisted only of this...


     
  7. NeilO

    NeilO Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2002
    Messages:
    3,708
    Likes Received:
    288
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Quote:

    Did you really expect there to be serious alternate endings on Jimmy Kimmel?

    Thanks for including it here, I hadn't seen it yet (and WJLA broadcast it in SD so I'm glad to see the full aspect).
     
  8. Cary P

    Cary P Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2000
    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I admit the Jimmy Kimmel show seemed a little stiff last night. Quite a few awkward moments with the cast all sitting there. I enjoyed Kimmel's Soprano's style alt ending, though.
     
  9. Greg.K

    Greg.K Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 1998
    Messages:
    2,023
    Likes Received:
    898
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Location:
    NY
    Real Name:
    Greg K.
    Watching Jin trying to park the Dharma VW bus was hilarious. :)
     
  10. Josh Dial

    Josh Dial Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2000
    Messages:
    3,462
    Likes Received:
    847
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Real Name:
    Josh Dial

    To be fair, there were numerous statements by those involved (actors/Cuse/Lindelof/Jimmy Kimmel himself) that the alternate endings were shot specifically for the Jimmy Kimmel episode, were not in any way actual endings to the show, and were never meant to be anything but jokes.
     
  11. Dave Mack

    Dave Mack Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2002
    Messages:
    4,668
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    0
    that was pretty funny though and knowing Kimmel, not unsurprising. :)
     
  12. Jason Roer

    Jason Roer Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2004
    Messages:
    977
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    For what it's worth - the review I wrote for my blog today:


    The Takeaway: When a dog licks your face; it's all good.

    Format: TV Lost has the best pilot episode I have ever seen. It captured us right from the opening frame, which quite literally was an opening - Jack's eye. A starting image that led to some of the most tense moments I've seen on television. Lost has the best finale episode I have ever seen... But apparently not to everyone. The internet was buzzing not moments after the finale ended. Many people were confused. Some were pissed. Some were drunk and only realizing this afternoon that they are confused and pissed - this of course could be because they woke up naked under an aerobed with an empty paper towel holder stuck up their keister, and nothing at all to do with the finale of Lost. Angry they are - but they shouldn't be. Let me explain why. Most oft noticed question by yours truly from scouring the net - What is the island? Seriously - you don't have that one? What is the island? We were given the answer a few episodes ago. The island is a mystical place that harbors the source of all light and goodness in the world. Light goes out, we all die. But the light did go out. Correction, astute viewer - the beam of light disappeared when Desmond lifted the stone out. But there was CLEARLY light under the cracked ground. It never fully went out and eventually Jack sacrifices his life to replace the stone and restart the beam of light - hence saving the world. Not too shabby for a little doctor from the states. Okay, okay - but everyone was dead for the whole 6 seasons? WEAK, dude! They died in the plane crash and then we watched - like - what - purgatory for 6 years? HUH?????!!??? I'm sorry - were we all watching the same finale? Cause the one I watched EXPLICITLY tells us (actually it was Christian telling Jack - but we were on the other side of the TV screen listening in) that EVERYTHING that happened on the island was REAL! That the time all of the castaways spent on the island together was the most important time they ever spent on earth - and that it was such powerful stuff (bonds of friendship and all) that they collectively created this sort of waiting room between the real world and whatever lies beyond. This tangible place in intangible space (Jimmy Buffett wrote that song during his brief stint as a quantum physicist) has no NOW (no time element) and thus as each of them died in their own time - they all arrived in this Gathering World. Our next clue that EVERYTHING on the island was real and actually happened is: once Jack realizes he's dead he asks if everyone else is dead too. Christian replies, "Some died before you; some long after you." Lastly we have the great moment between Hurley and Ben where Ben tells Hurley he was a great number 1 (referring to his tenure as Guardian of the Island). Hurley says Ben made a pretty great number 2. (referring to Ben being Hurley's right hand man on the island, post Jack's death). But, but, but - wait a second - if they all lived out their lives off the island - then why do they look the same in the Gathering World? Ha, ha - gotcha there, smarty J! No ya didn't. Remember what Kate says to Jack in the Gathering World (flash-sideways/alt universe - whatever-the-hell-ya-wanna-call-it-at-this-point) - she says, I missed you, Jack. I MISSED YOU. Because she lived a hell of lot longer than Jack. She made it off the island with James, Lapeidis, Miles, and Richard. She probably lived a really long life. Don't know how long - but she missed Jack at the end of it. When they all arrive in the Gathering World - they return to the form that all the others would remember them as. The way they were when they met - right after the plane crashed on the island. That's what this whole shebang was about - the bonds of friendship - redemption by community. They each of them had things to work through and together they did it. In the end, after their deaths, they arrive in the Gathering World - the place we all thought was an actual parallel universe that resulted from Juliet setting off the bomb. Desmond "wakes up" to the reality that he is dead and "lets go" first. He then goes on a season long mission to wake up the rest of his friends so they may all move on to the next plane of existence together. And in the end - Jack comes to the realization. Christian opens the doors of the church letting in a glowing light (that looks quite a bit like the light from the cave on the island. The source?) and all of them move on. I take it to mean they reassimilate into the source of goodness and light - in other words - back to the island. Remember what was said - there is a bit of the light in all of us. As to the many other questions people had - such as Eloise - why did she ask Desmond if he was going to "take" her son? Well - she killed her son in the real world, if you recall. In this Gathering World, she has somehow woken to the fact that it isn't "real". That it's just a stopping point. But her grief over what she had done in the real world compels her to be selfish and keep Daniel from moving on. She wants him to stay forever with her in the Gathering World. The Dharma Initiative? Group of scientists who come to the island to identify and experiment upon the mystical properties of the island. What else do you need to feel satisfied? What's up with the mystical properties of the island? Otherwise known as - How many midiclhorians does it take to screw in a light bulb? It's a frickin' mystical, magical place, dudes! No explanation necessary. What happens, happened. Walt? I got no answers there, brotha. Sometimes - ya just gotta let go. I was weeping almost throughout the runtime of last night's finale. The closure brought to the arcs of these unbelievably real characters we've grown to love over the last 6 years was so elegant, beautiful, and moving - that even now, as I type this the tears are welling in my eyes. This was very much like a funeral. We were putting our friends to rest forevermore. And yet like much of last night, I have an overwhelming sense of love stirring in me. A love for my wife. For my son. For my family and friends. And for my fellow man. Even NYC cab drivers. Paris in Fall. Cheers, Jason
     
  13. Dave Mack

    Dave Mack Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2002
    Messages:
    4,668
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    0
    nicely written, Jason. Exactly my take.


    :)
     
  14. mattCR

    mattCR Executive Producer
    Reviewer

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2005
    Messages:
    10,897
    Likes Received:
    667
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Lee Summit, Missouri
    Real Name:
    Matt

    He did absolutely no such thing. He told them that it was REAL. Then again, in previous seasons, we were told that Hell is REAL, so being REAL doesn't necessarily mean anything in reference to where they were. Any more then saying they were "REALLY" in a place where they found each other. It's inference of anything else is simply speculation on the part of the viewer. Go back, he also never said anything about "On earth" never. I've re-watched this twice now, and this was NEVER said.


    He said this:




    Christian -never- says "hey, that part, that was all a living portion of your life.." never. In fact, he implies directly that he, even post death is "real" that the people out there, who are obviously all dead are "real". Reality, then is that we exist eternally, in a sense, taking the very thread from almost every Christian based faith, and again, stealing heavily from Dante. And we end with him saying "you were the most important to each other..." but when does that occur? When does it matter if it occurs?


    I'm just puzzled as to why this matters a lot to anyone where/when it occurs. I don't see that having any impact at all on the story. It's again, the lady at the tiger. Whether or not the Island was purgatory is meaningless. It makes absolutely no impact on the end of the story. So, I don't get the ferocious fight over it. It doesn't impact my enjoyment of it at all.


    Was Virgil not real to Dante as a friend through the fires of both the inferno and purgatorio? If they are "Real" in Death, then the moments of their being that are "real" and what makes things "Real" has nothing to do with anything attached to any earthly bond per se.

    Again, like I said, yes, you can argue the other way, I appreciate the argument. But I don't see why it matters at all how people see that portion of the story, because it doesn't matter at all if the end is that it is a series of tests which ends in the redemption of the characters, which no one is debating at all.


    Where the path of redemption goes through is meaningless.
     
  15. Joe_H

    Joe_H Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2001
    Messages:
    1,787
    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    So on an entirely different note, I was wondering something last night and can't remember if they showed it to us before. How did Boone start to remember things exactly, to have been able to help Hurley get Shannon to LA to help Sayid?
     
  16. Raymond_H

    Raymond_H Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Messages:
    244
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

    They never specifically showed it, one assumes Hurley did something though. Hopefully on the DVD.
     
  17. Holadem

    Holadem Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2000
    Messages:
    8,967
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I wonder if those who really loved the finale can understand why some of us didn't. As in, can truly understand where we are coming from, or even relate a little bit.


    It's truly strange: Not a couple of weeks ago, some of the most vigorous defenders of the series were adamant that the struggle between Jacob and MiB was central to the series. To the occasional poster who would accuse the writers of "making it up as they go along", we would get staunch defenses explaining how the central conflict of the show was laid out from the very beginning, with the backgammon game in the pilot ( I recall someone even posting a picture of Locke holding the black and white stones.)


    The Incident had explicitly laid bare that struggle with that epic opening and the scenes at the statue, and this season has delved into its roots. Also, in the immediate aftermath of the bomb, we have struggled to figure out how the alternate timeline ties into that epic struggle. How that timeline relates to the Island. I mean, it obviously had to. If these people's lives intersected in real life long before they got on that plane because of Jacob, the fact that they were intersecting in that other timeline clearly meant that something, presumably Jacob/The Island, was influencing events in that timeline as well. Couldn't wait for what the writers had in store for us. Hopefully, it would all come together somehow.


    Never in a million years would it have occurred to me that that timeline had nothing whatsoever to do with the events on the Island. Oh -- to be precise, it does of course. But only because it is the afterlife created by that particular group of survivors. Otherwise, nothing. It certainly does not inform the black vs white struggle that we were told was at the core of the show. It does not inform the characters, in the narrative of the on-island events of the final season.

    Rather, we've spent 6 months watching what is basically an epilogue of this story during half of almost every episode, without being aware of it. All the while thinking it had something to do with what we had been repeatedly and often stridently told was the central conflict laid out since the pilot.


    Can you guys understand while satisfying on a character level, some would feel cheated intellectually by this resolution?


    --

    H
     
  18. Jason Roer

    Jason Roer Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2004
    Messages:
    977
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Matt, I don't see this as a ferocious fight and I certainly respect your POV. It just doesn't work for me. That's all. Agreed - it's all about redemption. My only question to you - clearly you are quite knowledgeable about these matters - is this: What in your opinion did the creators mean by having an Island purgatory (since that's what you believe) and a sideways/alt universe purgatory? I don't quite follow how there can be 2 purgatory states.

    Also - since we are both in agreement that Christian tells Jack some died "LONG" after you - how does that fit in with your theory that everyone dies in the plane crash? Everyone in that room was on the plane. They all had to die at the same moment - or at the very least within hours of each other. My only thought would be that Christian was not referring to the people in the room (even though that was clearly Jack's question) and was referring obliquely to those Jack encountered throughout his stay on the island.

    Thanks in advance!


    Cheers,


    Jason
     
  19. Holadem

    Holadem Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2000
    Messages:
    8,967
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Penny wasn't on the plane. Just a nitpick, it doesn't take away from your excellent point.


    --

    H
     
  20. Raymond_H

    Raymond_H Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Messages:
    244
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

    I really liked the finale (and characters) but I definitely can see the disappointment, frustration, etc for this series.


    Overall, the writers as a whole were very sloppy and did a lot of story telling in the string a-long method just to fuck with the audience. I recall a Jin/Sun episode from a previous season where Jin is dead but the way the episode was put together it made it appeared Jin was alive and going to Sun's baby delievery (I could be wrong on the actual plot but not execution) - to me it served no purpose but only to swerve the audience. That episode left a bad taste in my mouth more than anything else in the series. Maybe because it was more character related but still, that type of device sucked.


    Looked it up, it was titled Ji Yeon from Season 4 - http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Ji_Yeon




    To go back on what I hated about that Sun/Jin, is The Incident basically only meant the characters jumped time but yet as you describe it was meant to be portrayed as something more. We even got the shot from this season's opening of the Island underwater - which again was just to fuck with our minds in hindsight. I hate that.
     

Share This Page