Lost: Season 5

TonyD

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thats not all that is in my previous post.

On Lost with all the time traveling there are some that think the 1977
r & B died in or just after that "present" time.

so since they died before 2004 in that "present" time their 2004 "present'
versions could have seeen their 1977 versions dead in the cave.

Remember what farady says many times, that were ever and whenever the Losties are,
that is the "present"
 

TravisR

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Here's how it would work chronologically for Rose and Bernard.

2004: Rose and Bernard (who is age 56*) crash on the island. Eventually, they time travel back to...

1974: Rose, Bernard (still age 56), Sawyer and the rest go back to 1974. Three years pass as Sawyer joins the Dharma Initiative. It's now...

1977: Rose and Bernard (now age 59) are discovered by Sawyer, Juliet and Kate living in the jungle.

Sometime after 1977: The conjecture is that Rose and Bernard die and end up as the Adam and Eve skeletons eventually found by Jack and Kate in S1/2004. When they're found, Bernard's body would be 86 years old thanks to going back in time 30 years.

* Thanks Lostpedia.
 

EricW

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the only problem with the Losties jumping from 77 to 07 after Juliet triggers the bomb was Richard saying 'i watched them die', unless he meant 'i know they died', because that was pretty specific.
 

Joseph DeMartino

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Richard knew that Jack going off to detonate a nuclear bomb. Not long afterwards he would have seen a mushroom cloud rise over the spot where the Swan was being built. Everyone in the immediate area of the blast would presumably have been vaporised, so nobody would be counting bodies in the aftermath. Based on the later accounts of those who escaped, he found out that Kate, Sawyer and the others had also reached the site just before the thing went off. Since they're all gone he would assume that they died in the blast along with everyone else, and that therefore when he saw the mushroom cloud he was "watching them die". I don't see the problem.

Regards,

Joe
 

TonyD

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he said body not living person, 59 + 30 =89.
dead or alive the body or what is left would still have been on the planet for 89 years.

even after people are dead, they still say his age would have been whatever it would be, if still alive.
 

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Yes. They were. I'm not entirely convinced that Adam and Eve are Rose and Bernard, but if they are, then right after crashing on Oceanic 815, R&B share the island with versions of themselves who happen to be dead in a cave. This is how LOST handles time travel. Characters can exist concurrently with older or younger versions of themselves, given the right alignment of circumstances. Witness Miles gazing through the window at his infant self. Witness Locke about 3/4 mile from a younger version of himself pounding on the hatch.

These characters may be jumping around in time, but for them, their existence has never stopped progressing in a linear fashion.

Faraday's theory (until 'The Variable') stated that nothing could ever be changed. However, before Faraday's death, he interjected a human variable and posited that it is possible to change events.

I am not always completely astute about such things, and there is little time in the script spent on explanation of the 'variable' theory. Faraday states that situations and events cannot change, but that people can affect change. People are the variable. I understand this conceptually, but I can't help but think that peoples' direct involvement in forcing outcomes on events cannot be extracted from the equation as variables.

That's why Miles cracked me up when he said, "I'm glad you've all thought this through." He considered the possibility that trying to stop the Incident would result in causing it. Well, duh!

This is the genius in the way 'The Incident' plays out in its final minutes. We as an audience have no idea how an atomic explosion might react with electromagnetic power of this magnitude. Perhaps it would result in an equation-equilizing negation of an explosion. Perhaps the concurrent release of atomic and electromagnetic energy results in... nothing! For a short while, after Jack drops the core, we are left wondering if it has worked. Maybe he has stopped it!

However, the moment metal parts begin hurtling into the deep hole, our hopes are dashed. We are left with the sinking feeling that Jack has caused the Incident.

However, in a third twist, when we go to Juliet (still alive!) at the bottom of the chasm, we see that the core has not detonated. We suddenly realize that the Incident has occurred without Jack's intervention. This is an exciting (and scary) moment, because we realize that, if she explodes the core, something unexpected will happen.

As far as all the time travel talk, while it's fun and all, none of it's going to matter as much next year. I have a feeling that Season Six will take that off the table almost completely. In order to provide a coherent send-off to the show's themes and characters, and a resolution to the larger conflict set up in 'The Incident,' a return to linear time progression (with flashbacks to the Island's history to answer remaining questions) can only serve to enhance the final season.
 

Josh Dial

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Cuse and Lindelof have said pretty much this, so your thoughts are correct.
 

TravisR

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You're most likely correct that it's a continuity error but even after the 815'ers discovered that The Others didn't live wild in the jungle, The Others would still wear their haggard clothes/disguises when going through the jungle. When he met young Ben, maybe a wig was part of Richard's disguise.
 

Joe_H

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I'm not entirely sure on this, but is 30 years enough for bodies to decay to just a skeleton like we saw in the cave? I'd lean towards no.
 

TravisR

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When he found them, Jack said that they look like they'd been there for 40 to 50 years based on how decayed the clothing was. I don't think they're Rose and Bernard either but with all the time craziness and our lack of knowledge about what happens in S6, I wouldn't rule anything out.
 

Joseph Young

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Given the color/style of clothes long-haired Richard wore, it makes sense that it was a disguise (much like Tom Friendly's beard in Season 1 & 2). Your explanation makes a lot of sense.

On the other hand, I remember that in 1974 (during roughly the same time period that Ben and Richard meet for the first time), Richard Alpert, in plain sight, strides confidently into Dharmaville after the truce is broken, in a dress shirt and slacks, and short hair. Perhaps before then, only Horace knew of his true nature, and this nighttime excursion in Dharmaville was a first.

It's a small issue, and it doesn't ultimately affect my enjoyment of the show, but sometimes the smallest inconsistencies bug me the most.
 

Joseph DeMartino

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The rate at which a body will deteriorate is greatly affected by a lot of things, including climate, the native insect life and animal predation. On a tropical island a body may be reduced to little more than a skeleton very quickly. As for Jack's statement - he isn't exactly a forensic anthropologist - he was making a wild-ass guess. His point was that the bodies were not recent, they had been there for quite a while. He could just as easily have said "30 or 40 years" and been saying essentially the same thing. And clothing, too, deteriorates at different rates under different circumstances. Natural fibers, in particular will rot relatively quickly in a tropical environment. So even if Jack had some genuine basis in his own experience for citing "40 to 50 years", the difference in climate could have easily thrown his estimate off by 10 or 20 years if he didn't take it into account. In short, Bernard and Rose remain perfectly viable (in a manner of speaking) candidates for the roles of Adam and Eve.

Regards,

Joe
 

Paul D G

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...and it's been officially revealed that's exactly what it is:

"And as the camera pulls back, we see what we've been waiting to see since we first glimpsed that four-toed foot over three years ago... the towering, majestic statue of the Egyptian goddess Taweret."

Lost - Episode Recaps - ABC.com
 

Josh Dial

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That's been on the ABC site for months, now. For the record, in a recent podcast (I'm sorry, I don't recall which one, but I'm sure you can find the transcript), Cuse and Lindelof said the episode summaries on the ABC site are not canon. I'm sure they say that just to cover their collective butts, but I'm I just wanted to point out that if it isn't stated on the show or podcast, then I wouldn't start placing bets
Hell, even the alternate-reality stuff (like the whole deal with the numbers) has been taken out of the canon by Cuse/Lindelof.

They clearly have an ending in mind, and aren't willing to be tied down by promotional material, no matter the source. I can respect that, and don't personally consider it "copping out" or ret-conning (though I'm sure there are a few on these boards that will disagree with me).
 

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I don't mean to be argumentative, but I don't buy it. That statue was holding an ankh, which is closer to the images of Sobek - who was the consort of Taweret, so there you go.

I doubt this is something that will be explicitly explained on the show.
 

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Aside from the head wear, which more closely resembles Tawaret, the statue's shape and positioning of the ankhs more closely resembles Sobek. The mouth and teeth look slightly more crocodile-like in the finale, which fits Sobek as well. Tawaret is more of a hippo, and has a bigger belly, but Sobek has classically been presented with more than four toes on either foot in all the illustrations and sculptures I've seen.

I am wondering though - what causes you to think that the statue mystery won't be explained in the final season? Keep in mind I'm not disagreeing with you. The LOST writers often brush off lingering questions by having characters angrily retort that 'it doesn't matter,' 'we have more urgent things to worry about right now' or to 'stop asking questions' and things don't get brought up again.

By the time S6E01 premieres, I think that fans - notwithstanding a huge spoiler leak - will have constructed their own elaborate construction/mythology for what's going on in the show, that's far more involved than what the Season's going to be able to explain. Cuse and Lindelof, I think, have more simple, character driven resolutions to map out, and representing the deep mythology of the island is something that may have to be handled post-series, probably with a an officially sanctioned comic, much like what was done with Buffy.

Yeah, I am predicting an official LOST comic series post 2010.
 

TravisR

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Considering how many current and former writers on the show have penned comics, I agree completely. The only obstacle might be that a comic would probably have to primarily focus on more main characters and I'm more interested in the untold tales and characters that didn't get a spotlight. In other words, I'd rather see more of Libby's origin or more about the Dharma Initiative arriving on the island rather than another story about Jack spiraling into drug and alcohol abuse after being rescued or another story about Kate on the run before 815 crashed.
 

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